Almosy by definition, VCD is a flawed standard?

[RabidDog]

As above, if people are saying they can improve on vcd quality by allocating more bits (higher bitrate) then the standard for VCD is flawed?
eg if you get better quality with 1300 bitrate than 1150 then surely the standard is badly flawed?
Supplemetary question: does anybody use mpeg2 at vcd resolutions and VBR, if they do, do they get better quality of output for the same size of movie, or is this a complete dogs mess of an idea??

[adam]

The bitrate for VCD was determined by the speed at which data can be read off of a 1x drive. The VCD standard was invented to provide a cheap alternative to DVD, so that the Chinese government could avoid paying royalty fees to the DVD consortium. Basically, its geared toward cheap hardware so it has a low bitrate as a result. SVCD was the upgrade to that, offering higher bitrates at presumably a higher cost of manufacturing the equipment. Neither format is flawed, they are just aimed at a particular purpose.

Yes using mpeg1 or mpeg2 and VBR with what would otherwise be compliant VCD settings, can improve quality, but really not by very much. The lower your avg bitrate is the less effective VBR is. Basically, the encoder can only allocate above your max however much bitrate it allocates below your max. So exactly how much lower than 1150k can you go before the quality becomes unwatchable? Well not much. When you use VBR with an avg around 1150k, you are still practically encoding in CBR. For the most part, you can get roughly equal quality as a VCD in a slightly smaller filesize, so you can fit more content per disk.

[RabidDog]

AHH yes now that you mention it Trust those damn clever chinese.
I think I will persevere with these various std s, I do like the look of CVD, (quality of SVCD with a lower bitrate?).

[djmattyb]

RabidDog wrote:

AHH yes now that you mention it Trust those damn clever chinese.
I think I will persevere with these various std s

Yikes! Why don't you wear a condom? Then you won't have to persevere with various STD's!

[banjazzer]

I do like the look of CVD, (quality of SVCD with a lower bitrate?).

If you haven't already, pay a visit to kwag's site - http://www.kvcd.net/

[RabidDog]

I tried one of his templates once and I got a ridiculous size of CVD something approaching 1.5gbs!! yikes! I will give it another try tho. its just that with tmpeng it takes many hours to perform even small experiments.

Yikes! Why don't you wear a condom? Then you won't have to persevere with various STD's!

Once bitten twice shy £££=$$$$=€€€€€€

[banjazzer]

I suspect user error. But the first rule of video experimentation must be - work on small samples first. 8) And this is easy using TMPG's Source range setting.

[cchitson11]

The bitrate for VCD was determined by the speed at which data can be read off of a 1x drive. The VCD standard was invented to provide a cheap alternative to DVD, so that the Chinese government could avoid paying royalty fees to the DVD consortium. Basically, its geared toward cheap hardware so it has a low bitrate as a result. SVCD was the upgrade to that, offering higher bitrates at presumably a higher cost of manufacturing the equipment. Neither format is flawed, they are just aimed at a particular purpose.

Excuse me If I'm completely of base here, But I always thought that VCD was the predacessor to DVD not an alternative. I thought Vcd was realeased 4-5 years before Dvd came out. Actually I remember Circuit City (in the U.S.) carring them in 1993-94. They just really did not catch on anyplace except for Asia. I always assumed the low standards was due to the type of equipment that was around when they were released. Svcd and Cvd were the formats to compete with Dvd in china. I could be off base Here, but I'm fairly certian this is the case.

[RabidDog]

I just realized ... certain is an anagram of cretin...nearly This does not apply to anybody here.. thats quite a good quote .
But i think you are right

cchitson11

svcd was so that they didnt have to pay royalties... how much do they sell pirated dvd's for in China??

[adam]

cchitson11 your right, I was confusing it with SVCD/CVD. VCD 1.1 came out in '93 and 2.0 in '94. DVD specs were actually in development all this time, maybe even prior to the release of VCD, but the players didn't hit the market till '97. As stated before, VCD's specs were derived from the hardware available at the time.

[cchitson11]

I thought I was losing my memory for a minute there. I knew I had remembered seeing the VCD's in stores alot earlier than DVD. I wondered why VCD never caught in the U.S. I didn't realize until I started making my own a couple of years ago, that Laser Disc was actually a better picture quality. Why would anyone buy a video format that was actually a downgrade.

[Cole]

Why would anyone buy a video format that was actually a downgrade.

Marketing probably. Betamax was a better video tape medium than VHS but the inferior VHS won out as it had better support. Beta was smaller for storeage too - so there!

[SatStorm]

Please, don't mention xVCD teplates like KVCD for CVD creation.
It is a totally different thing.
Okey banjazzer?

CVD is CVD. SVCD is SVCD. VCD is VCD.
Anything else is -X- and please always SHOUT IT LOUD before you mention it as an alternative.

[DEmberton]

Why would anyone buy a video format that was actually a downgrade.

Marketing probably. Betamax was a better video tape medium than VHS but the inferior VHS won out as it had better support. Beta was smaller for storeage too - so there!

VHS had all the porn, at least so I've been told

[banjazzer]

Please, don't mention xVCD teplates like KVCD for CVD creation.
It is a totally different thing.
Okey banjazzer?

Read my post again! I didn't say xVCD was CVD. I recommended he look at kwag's site, which is good advice IMO, and advice which can be taken or left.
OK SatStorm?

[SatStorm]

Don't take it personal, I talk to you to hear some others
Sometimes, you have to talk to your friends loud to hear to the next table...

[solarfox]

Marketing probably. Betamax was a better video tape medium than VHS but the inferior VHS won out as it had better support.

Nice urban legend, but... no. It was not. The difference in quality between Beta and VHS was so tiny that it could only be seen with laboratory equipment -- and was, according to an article in the April 1984 issue of "Stereo Review", less than the variation in quality between any two machines within any given manufacturers' product line! -- so any difference in quality anyone thought they saw on their 1970's-1980's era, consumer-grade TV sets was entirely due to either these manufacturing tolerances, or to their own imagination.

The endurance of this particular myth just goes to show that people have an innate need to try to rationalize their actions when they find out they've backed the wrong horse. It's the high-tech equivalent of the fans of a losing sports team retorting with "Oh yeah? Just wait 'til next year!"

[fantomlord]

I just realized ... certain is an anagram of cretin...nearly This does not apply to anybody here..

hmm...that's nearly pretty interesting

[banjazzer]

Don't take it personal, I talk to you to hear some others
Sometimes, you have to talk to your friends loud to hear to the next table...

OK. I'm just having a bad day at work. 8)

[Cole]

Marketing probably. Betamax was a better video tape medium than VHS but the inferior VHS won out as it had better support.

Nice urban legend, but... no. It was not. The difference in quality between Beta and VHS was so tiny that it could only be seen with laboratory equipment -- and was, according to an article in the April 1984 issue of "Stereo Review", less than the variation in quality between any two machines within any given manufacturers' product line! -- so any difference in quality anyone thought they saw on their 1970's-1980's era, consumer-grade TV sets was entirely due to either these manufacturing tolerances, or to their own imagination.

The endurance of this particular myth just goes to show that people have an innate need to try to rationalize their actions when they find out they've backed the wrong horse. It's the high-tech equivalent of the fans of a losing sports team retorting with "Oh yeah? Just wait 'til next year!"

Ah well, but I was still right about the storeage issue!