All downloaders going defunct...

[vidsrme]

...countless hours of developers time wasted, and countless hours of users time wasted trying to change over, install and get to grips with new software.

Freevine, UKFTA, Devine - 3 download tools that developers have spent many hours creating/updating/fixing and users have spent many hours learning to install and use - all now wasted.

There are countless pages on this forum of users having problems trying to either install or use the above softwares - only for each of the softwares to be canned.

With devine now being discontinued - after users have toiled over getting to grips with it since its inception - we all have to go to the next one - unshackle - and go through the dance of fixing and learning to use that - which will surely eventually be canned, before we another dev makes another software and users have to go though the dance of learning that one.

Why can't we just stick to one downloader? Make a github repo for a single downloader and any and all devs can work on it as they please.

We have working softwares that have been created by developers that cover practially every streaming service, but they're all fragmented - some work for some services, but dont work on others - so we have to have multiple softwares installed and multiple devs working on each of the softwares.

Why not create a VHFORUM-DL repo for a single software and have all devs work on that single downloader, rather than fragmentedly working on various, out of date, partially broken ones?

We need to do something to stop this vicious circle of software death and create something that is unified and consolidated into 1 sustainable project.

[larley]

I 100% agree
I think rlaphoenix' idea was the best: create a web based downloader that doesn't have to be installed on the system of each user, with my addition being that services are located in a central GitHub repo where we can use the amazing Git VCS to fix services collaboratively so the downloader isn't dependent on a single user anymore (in Python of course)
Maybe combine that with a similar system for collecting keys and wv/pr devices in a centralized database

The only problem is the lagality of it. Creating a site that makes it really easy for anybody to download almost anything is kind of problematic...

[Gromyko]

(in Python of course)

"... there lies the rub" Hamlet

Many developers do not like Python. That's prevents the creation of the Ultimate Downloader. No agreement on which language to use.

[vidsrme]

I 100% agree
I think rlaphoenix' idea was the best: create a web based downloader that doesn't have to be installed on the system of each user, with my addition being that services are located in a central GitHub repo where we can use the amazing Git VCS to fix services collaboratively so the downloader isn't dependent on a single user anymore (in Python of course)
Maybe combine that with a similar system for collecting keys and wv/pr devices in a centralized database

The only problem is the lagality of it. Creating a site that makes it really easy for anybody to download almost anything is kind of problematic...

I think practically any method which is unified would be better than standalone scripts simply ending up in the graveyard.

With regard to legality, I was referring in particular to the free services around the world, mainly uk, us and aus - there are tons of free services and thats within the rules here. I dont believe previous services such as devine, freevine, ukfta, ozvine have encountered any legal issues, so making a unified downloader for those hopefully wouldnt be an issue.

A lot of the work is already done - the scripts mentioned above cover most of the uk, us and aus services. It would make much more sense to stick with a single downloader and upgrade/fix that as and when needed as a pose to people repeatedly making their own scripts then eventually discontinuing it.

(in Python of course)

"... there lies the rub" Hamlet

Many developers do not like Python. That's prevents the creation of the Ultimate Downloader. No agreement on which language to use.

I don't think the devs dont like python argument is true and I hgonestly don't know why you would sugest that... freevine, ukfta, devine, yt-dl, ozvine, N_m3u8DL-RE, hlsdl... literally every single video downloader that exists is written in python lol

[Obo]

I suggest you take a look at the sources of N_m3u8DL-RE - not too much Python in it (in fact, it's 100% C#)
The same holds for hlsdl (96% C according github, not a single line of Python code)

But I agree, @Gromyko's argument is lame.

[weiLahw9]

I suggest you take a look at the sources of N_m3u8DL-RE - not too much Python in it (in fact, it's 100% C#)
The same holds for hlsdl (96% C according github, not a single line of Python code)

But I agree, @Gromyko's argument is lame.

You might be conflating stream downloaders (dash, hls) and scraping tools (for lack of a better word, they do more than that) that make use of those.
Python being very flexible is used a lot in those kinds of software.
On the other hand stream downloaders are highly specialized.
But then again I might be speaking out of my arse ^^

[larley]

I said "(in Python of course)" because I'd like to make contributing as approachable as possible for new users or devs from yt-dlp.

I would still like - if this project ever comes to life - separate it into front- (Python) and backend (preferably C#), as there aren't really any large user contributions to the backend and with the power of the local network would speed up database management

[vidsrme]

I suggest you take a look at the sources of N_m3u8DL-RE - not too much Python in it (in fact, it's 100% C#)
The same holds for hlsdl (96% C according github, not a single line of Python code)

But I agree, @Gromyko's argument is lame.

Ok I didnt actually check I just listed them because I thought they were all python, but yeah the large majority are python at least.

I said "(in Python of course)" because I'd like to make contributing as approachable as possible for new users or devs from yt-dlp.

yt-dlp, devine, freevine, ukfta... any of those could be used as a base to work from. The services in those scripts still work for a number of sites and between those scripts lots of services are covered. If the working services from each of those scripts was combined into a single downloader that would be a huge start.

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

I've just checked through UK-FTA and everything still works. so @vidsrme "countless hours of developers time wasted" is a lame statement.

I have no plans to scrap UK-FTA and it is NOT going defunct.

It will be supported for as long as I am able. Updates are on github; https://github.com/vinefeeder/UK-FTA

I, myself, don't use it any more since I prefer the style of Vinefeeder driving devine/ unshackle (it does both) but I repeat UK-FTA isn't defunct and won't be for as long as I have my senses.

I think sp4k.y has been a pain in the way he has implemented unshackle. Why did he need to change the name of all the devine imports? Makes no sense to me. Why couldn't the fork still be called devine? (97% is still devine code). Then all anyone would need to do would be to update devine from the new fork.

@vidsrme: you complain of change. But change is the only constant in life; get used to it.

[PSXman_uk]

@A_n_g_e_l_a

I think sp4k.y has been a pain in the way he has implemented unshackle. Why did he need to change the name of all the devine imports? Makes no sense to me. Why couldn't the fork still be called devine? (97% is still devine code). Then all anyone would need to do would be to update devine from the new fork.

The 'devine' name
Please consider the project name "devine" (in relation to DRM works) my copyright and it should not be re-used on forks, uploads, or drm-related website names/domains, or social media handles. Please do not re-use the name on any software, websites, domains, blogs, or such in relation to DRM. If you make a fork please use a new name you come up with that does not include the words 'devine'.

I guess he's following what Phoenix put on discord

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

@A_n_g_e_l_a

I think sp4k.y has been a pain in the way he has implemented unshackle. Why did he need to change the name of all the devine imports? Makes no sense to me. Why couldn't the fork still be called devine? (97% is still devine code). Then all anyone would need to do would be to update devine from the new fork.

The 'devine' name
Please consider the project name "devine" (in relation to DRM works) my copyright and it should not be re-used on forks, uploads, or drm-related website names/domains, or social media handles. Please do not re-use the name on any software, websites, domains, blogs, or such in relation to DRM. If you make a fork please use a new name you come up with that does not include the words 'devine'.

I guess he's following what Phoenix put on discord

Yes sure thing! I've only just seen HDD's post on devine discord. Why would he need to feel like that is now the question as it plunges the whole area around his downloader into a mess of confusion.

I see he is unhappy with the devine UX (user experience); he could have pulled VineFeeder into the project to clear that up. And the project really needed to do more in the way of implementing services but still leaving the endpoints, headers, certificates, json paths, etc to be provided by others using a service config file.
Never mind, though, devine was a good try, but we'll move on.

[deccavox]

...countless hours of developers time wasted, and countless hours of users time wasted trying to change over, install and get to grips with new software.

Freevine, UKFTA, Devine - 3 download tools that developers have spent many hours creating/updating/fixing and users have spent many hours learning to install and use - all now wasted........................

Not as bad as you are suggesting.
devine: yes, no longer developer supported but the last update was over a year ago and it's still going strong not giving me any errors.
There's Angela's UK-FTA and that works fine with continued developer support (thanks to Angela).
We now have unshackle which is basically a copy of devine, with hopefully developer support into the near future.

For down under there's ozivine which seems to work.

So, far from being stuck we actually have a choice. And I like choice. In fact we've never had so much choice. Go back 3 years or so, remember the crude (by today's standards) downloaders we were using. Our modern downloaders are all thanks to the extraordinary number of hours put in by certain members on here.

My favourite was always freevine and it's sad (for me) that stabby walked away from it. It's the only one where it's so easy to define different download streams at the CL and to predefine things like container, muxer used, file naming structure and others within the config.yaml. The last time I checked freevine, it was working with most UK channels (I had to change the code a little for CH5). Most of the latter posts relating to freevine were not really channel download related but were concerning the use of free proxies and VPNs like windscribe. The proper answer to all those problems: purchase a sub for a decent (but cheap) VPN like SurfShark or Nord and stop being a skinflint.

[billybanana]

Likewise, I plan to keep Ozivine going and maintained for as long as I'm still interested in all this stuff. My biggest issue right now is resisting the urge to expand it to other services - and end up duplicating what already exists. It has it's own little niche as is I guess.

Even if I were to walk away today, there'd be no dev effort wasted on my part. It's been a tremendous learning experience for which I have hugely benefitted. I've learnt to write many other python scripts which automate many tasks in my daily life, beyond just tv downloads.

People being people, I don't ever see the day where a centralised repository exists for all devs to wander in and out contributing. People don't like to cede control, egos, dominance all get in the way etc.

[vidsrme]

I've just checked through UK-FTA and everything still works. so @vidsrme "countless hours of developers time wasted" is a lame statement.

Ok my bad, I was sure I remembered you saying you were gonna be stopping development of it some time ago, maybe there's no developers time wasted on UKFTA but the others are definitely retired so the wasted time statement isn't so lame, it's just that I mistakenly thought UKFTA was reited as well.

But even given the above, fragmentation of downloaders, which is one of the main reasons for this thread, is still definitely a problem. UKFTA isn't as good as devine in some areas - 1 area in particular I know of is it cant get 1080p from ITV. The best resolution it can get is 896x504, while devine can get 1080p from the same episode.

Not as bad as you are suggesting.
devine: yes, no longer developer supported but the last update was over a year ago and it's still going strong not giving me any errors.
There's Angela's UK-FTA and that works fine with continued developer support (thanks to Angela).
We now have unshackle which is basically a copy of devine, with hopefully developer support into the near future.

For down under there's ozivine which seems to work.

So, far from being stuck we actually have a choice. And I like choice

They may not be giving you errors yet, but 'yet' is the operative word. All as it takes is a tiny tweak by any service provider to break the script you are happy with and there will be nobody to fix it because it's defunct. That's not a possibility - it's 100% guaranteed to happen - it's just when. Yes some people can tinker with scripts to fix them, but many can't.

My suggestion isnt to hinder choice, it's to prevent the eventual problems that keep cropping up from broken and defunct softwares. If there was a unified downloader that we just stuck with (and integrated all of the current downloaders features in to) how could that be bad or negative or restrict choice? The opposite- it would be hugely beneficial to everyone.

here are plenty of capable people on here and if we had a unified downloader and it did break, there's no doubt in my mind that at least 1 member here would be able to and would step up and fix it.

How can that system not be better tan the current one of using multiple, fragmented, sometimes broken and defunt downloaders? Quite simply - it isnt - the fragmented downloader system is indisputably a lesser, more error prone and more inconvenient system.

Likewise, I plan to keep Ozivine going and maintained for as long as I'm still interested in all this stuff. My biggest issue right now is resisting the urge to expand it to other services - and end up duplicating what already exists. It has it's own little niche as is I guess

Billy, my suggestion of a unified system is the answer to the issue you mention. If we had a unified dowloader then there would be no worry of overlapping of services. You could focus solely on services that are missing from our unified downloader. In trying to speak against a unified donwloader, the point you made stands only to strengthen the suggestion of using a unified downloader.

If we had the features from UKFTA, devine and ozvine rolled in to a single, unified downloader, one that could be added to and upgraded with more missing services, and one which multiple members worked on and could fix if it ever broke - how could that not be better than what we have now?

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

Oops got a double post!

[A_n_g_e_l_a]

1 area in particular I know of is it cant get 1080p from ITV. The best resolution it can get is 896x504, while devine can get 1080p from the same episode.

That was the case; I hadn't noticed ITVX had degraded the service, no-one complained, but I discovered the issue eventually and ITVX was updated a few months ago to provide 1080p. I spent two days pulling my hair out dealing with cookies in headers and wondering why I kept getting 403 errors.

If we had the features from UKFTA, devine and ozvine rolled in to a single, unified downloader, one that could be added to and upgraded with more missing services, and one which multiple members worked on and could fix if it ever broke - how could that not be better than what we have now?

Sorry for banging on about VineFeeder, but you have the features you want already - it just needs support. I wrote VineFeeder to be the a front end for Devine and now Unshackle. It brings search and url downloads, and recently batch download to your finger tips, in as few click as possible, and certainly no command line kerfuffle.

VineFeeder is a framework for developers too and needs other developers to write some more services.

@Billybanana - want to have a go for Oz services for Vinefeeder? I would welcome your input. I have done all the UK services plus TVNZ. And happy to help, should you need it.

@vidsrme You really should take a look at VineFeeder as it will probably meet some of your needs; I assume you are UK based so it may be a good fit for you.

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That whole sequence comprised of writing 'spy' in the text-box; clicking on All4 button; selecting a series from a list and then selecting an episode from a list.
https://github.com/vinefeeder/VineFeeder If github isn't something you use it can seem a bit daunting at first. You can though easily download the VineFeeder code by clicking on the green 'code' button and selecting zip download. That will get you the whole package to unpack. It will work both with devine or unshackle - which one can be set in config.yaml in the top folder. It should work pretty much out of the box so long as you have unshackle or devine installed as a system wide tool. 'pip unstall devine' or 'uv tool install git+https://github.com/unshackle-dl/unshackle.git' Unshackle needs its own services - just small changes to import statements - the new ones have been posted in the unshackle thread.