Added a fan to my DMR-ES16

[bmichaelb]

My DMR-ES16's lid gets pretty hot on it's own, which is why I think it was inserting and dropping frames on it's own, before it even reaches the capture card. I figure the chip's overheating. I also wanted to repaste the chip, but can't figure out how to pull the heatsink off.

I used a Noctua NF-A4x10V PWM fan, and pulled the 5V from the capacitator directly behind the optical port on the board. I wanted to drill and mount the fan to the inside of the case, but that would mean pulling the board from the case to avoid any metal filings shorting things out at a later date.

Now... it's cool to the touch, and no more drops or inserts... or at least few and far between. The only issue is the fan turns on when the unit powers up the first time, then it stays on after power down. A minor inconvenience though... simply unplug the unit when not in use. Done deal.


[Attachment 83599 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 83600 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 83601 - Click to enlarge]

[Subtitles]

Good solution. I usually use one of those small USB 5V fans blowing air over the cases and that seems to help, especially during Summer.

[bmichaelb]

Good solution. I usually use one of those small USB 5V fans blowing air over the cases and that seems to help, especially during Summer.

Cheers.

[themaster1]

What about an on/off switch (cheap on Ali) , too hard to put inside ?

[bmichaelb]

What about an on/off switch (cheap on Ali) , too hard to put inside ?

I've got a bunch of switches from past projects... rocker, toggle, and push button, but that would require drilling a hole in the case. Unless I find a hole to pass the wires through, then hotglue the switch to the rear of the case. Or... just mount the fan outside the case, then have it's own power plug. Drilling's easy, but to avoid any metal filings shorting anything out later on, I'd need to remove the board before drilling. I didn't feel like fiddling with it. There might be a 5v source that shuts off when the unit powers down, but I didn't search past the capacitator I'm already using.

As for buying off Ali or even Amazon though... pretty much every city, or neighbouring city, should have an electronics parts store for hobbyists. Just Goggle 'toggle switch [your city's name]', and it should show stores nearby. Or... even Home Depot has them... but more expensive. But for electronic parts in general, just search locally.



Edit: Actually... if I can find a lower voltage that only flows when the power's on, then I can use a relay. I've got a few of those kicking around. I'll probe the board once I'm finished this batch of tapes.

Edit 2: Or better yet... a transistor.

[aramkolt]

It'd probably be a lot more effective to just leave the top cover off presuming that you aren't in a particularly dusty environment. Those fans that JVC and others liked to put near their power supplies probably reduce the pocket of hot air at the very top of the cabinet, but there really isn't a defined path for good airflow. In particular, there's no defined air inlet, just small amounts getting in through various thin seams in the case. Perhaps the ES-16 has some holes in the bottom to let air in, but probably not is my guess. None of the fancy JVC VCRs really had air inflow holes either and they put fans on lots of models towards the end (always near the power supplies and not near the actual chips that get hot that do the video processing). I think really all it does is reduce slow heat buildup at the top of the case really. This could matter more for DVD recorders since they have a spinning disk up there that might be prone to different heat effects.

Maybe try a capture without the fan at all and leave the top cover off and see if you go back to getting dropped frames or not?

If you want to actually cool the chips that do the conversion, you'd want to put that fan right above the digital board which is the separate green board that kind of sits in the middle and force air right down at it and then also give the air a path to escape.

If the ES16 is anything like the 10 and 15, almost all of the SMT caps on the digital board will be bad by now, but those being bad apparently it doesn't seem to affect video quality since I'm the only one I've ever heard talk about swapping them out for new ones, could be that's where the dropped frames come from though and yours might just just have those caps in better shape than most?

I'll have to test to see if my recapped ES10 drops any frames or not within virtual dub eventually. Thing is that I really never need it since line TBCs take care of any issues that the ES10 normally would fix.

I will say, I just got my first HR-S7600U and that was the first VCR where turning the TBC on with a commercial tape actually provoked/caused tearing on commercial tapes in particular whereas none of the other JVCs with line TBCs have done that as far as I know. Could be something unique to the 7x00 series maybe. Supposedly the VS30U is based on the 7600 series, but I haven't seen tearing induced with those.

[bmichaelb]

It'd probably be a lot more effective to just leave the top cover off presuming that you aren't in a particularly dusty environment. Those fans that JVC and others liked to put near their power supplies probably reduce the pocket of hot air at the very top of the cabinet, but there really isn't a defined path for good airflow. In particular, there's no defined air inlet, just small amounts getting in through various thin seams in the case. Perhaps the ES-16 has some holes in the bottom to let air in, but probably not is my guess. None of the fancy JVC VCRs really had air inflow holes either and they put fans on lots of models towards the end (always near the power supplies and not near the actual chips that get hot that do the video processing). I think really all it does is reduce slow heat buildup at the top of the case really. This could matter more for DVD recorders since they have a spinning disk up there that might be prone to different heat effects.

Maybe try a capture without the fan at all and leave the top cover off and see if you go back to getting dropped frames or not?

If you want to actually cool the chips that do the conversion, you'd want to put that fan right above the digital board which is the separate green board that kind of sits in the middle and force air right down at it and then also give the air a path to escape.

If the ES16 is anything like the 10 and 15, almost all of the SMT caps on the digital board will be bad by now, but those being bad apparently it doesn't seem to affect video quality since I'm the only one I've ever heard talk about swapping them out for new ones, could be that's where the dropped frames come from though and yours might just just have those caps in better shape than most?

I'll have to test to see if my recapped ES10 drops any frames or not within virtual dub eventually. Thing is that I really never need it since line TBCs take care of any issues that the ES10 normally would fix.

I will say, I just got my first HR-S7600U and that was the first VCR where turning the TBC on with a commercial tape actually provoked/caused tearing on commercial tapes in particular whereas none of the other JVCs with line TBCs have done that as far as I know. Could be something unique to the 7x00 series maybe. Supposedly the VS30U is based on the 7600 series, but I haven't seen tearing induced with those.

The unit has ventilation slots in the sides of the lid. It wouldn't have a rear fan port without it. Some units have an actual fan, not just the port. And although removing the lid would help somewhat, this way actually draws cool air into the unit, therefore cooling down the chip. I really do see a difference in the captures... from at least 5 to 10 inserts per tape, down to none... or very, very few, if any.


[Attachment 83619 - Click to enlarge]

As for your HR-S7600U causing tearing with the TBC, my HR-S7800U does the exact same thing on 2 of my 30 tapes... a few minutes per tape. It's why I picked up this unit in the first place. But because all 30 tapes are a continuous broadcast, I need them all to look the same, especially since they get spliced together. So because of that, I'm deactivating the JVC's TBC, then using the ES16 for the entire project.

[cholla]

My Magnavox H2160MW9 DVRs have a fan from the factory.
I like that they are mounted to the outside of the case .
So fairly easy to service.
I have had to replace a noisy fan on one.
This is the replacement fan for my unit:
Fan
Good price if you can use it.
The Magnavox H2160MW9 does a good job of OTA recording but is not supposed to be very good for VHS to DVD transfers.
I have different units for that but none of those have TBC afaik.
I rarely transfer a VHS to DVD so not a problem.

[bmichaelb]

My Magnavox H2160MW9 DVRs have a fan from the factory.
I like that they are mounted to the outside of the case .
So fairly easy to service.
I have had to replace a noisy fan on one.
This is the replacement fan for my unit:
Fan
Good price if you can use it.
The Magnavox H2160MW9 does a good job of OTA recording but is not supposed to be very good for VHS to DVD transfers.
I have different units for that but none of those have TBC afaik.
I rarely transfer a VHS to DVD so not a problem.

That is a good price... the Noctua's $14 USD. How loud is it though? I mean, Noctua's are King when it comes to PC fans. Quiet and powerful.

https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-NF-A4x10-5V-PWM-Premium/dp/B07DXS86G7
https://www.amazon.com/Noctua-Cooling-Bearing-NF-A4X10-FLX-5V/dp/B00NEMGCIA

[dellsam34]

If it was designed for an optional fan I would assume it will have a fan power source, By looking at the board the closest point I see is P7504 a 3pin header, If it is the optional fan connector, not only will turn off the fan when your turn off the machine but it gives you a two speed fan operation if used with a two speed fan (3 wires) so it stays silent unless it's too hot then the second speed will kick in. You can buy those connector sockets online and get a correct 2 speed fan with the corresponding connector.

To remove the heat sink you would need to unscrew the green board, flip it over, push up those plastic tabs that hold the leaf spring from underneath the board, Then turn the leaf spring clock wise (looking from the top of the board) while slightly pushing the ends down until it's out of those side catches, then lift heat sink gently until it's free, After cleanup and applying a new heat paste follow the reverse steps.

[dellsam34]

I will say, I just got my first HR-S7600U and that was the first VCR where turning the TBC on with a commercial tape actually provoked/caused tearing on commercial tapes in particular whereas none of the other JVCs with line TBCs have done that as far as I know. Could be something unique to the 7x00 series maybe. Supposedly the VS30U is based on the 7600 series, but I haven't seen tearing induced with those.

It's hard to tell, mine does it too and I read some other members experienced that, for a long time I believed it is due to aging capacitors but when I acquired a D-VHS machine where you can't turn off TBC and the tearing was there for the same tapes, So I'm not sure if it's TBC component failure, The best way to find out is to recap the entire TBC board.

[bmichaelb]

If it was designed for an optional fan I would assume it will have a fan power source, By looking at the board the closest point I see is P7504 a 3pin header, If it is the optional fan connector, not only will turn off the fan when your turn off the machine but it gives you a two speed fan operation if used with a two speed fan (3 wires) so it stays silent unless it's too hot then the second speed will kick in. You can buy those connector sockets online and get a correct 2 speed fan with the corresponding connector.

To remove the heat sink you would need to unscrew the green board, flip it over, push up those plastic tabs that hold the leaf spring from underneath the board, Then turn the leaf spring clock wise (looking from the top of the board) while slightly pushing the ends down until it's out of those side catches, then lift heat sink gently until it's free, After cleanup and applying a new heat paste follow the reverse steps.

Oh wow... thank you very much. I'll take look later today.

[bmichaelb]

Well, unfortunately there is no 3-pin header, unless it's hidden somewhere, or the pins themselves just haven't been soldered in. And although I got the green board unscrewed, I could only release 1 of the 2 push tabs. I didn't want to fight with it.


[Attachment 83636 - Click to enlarge]

[dellsam34]

There is no pin header, just through holes, To see if P7504 vias have solder on them you will have to look underneath the main board unfortunately, then you can solder a new pin header, If you don't feel comfortable doing it just live with what you have. Although there should be plenty of switched 5V and 12V points on the board, no need for the fan to stay on, Good luck.


[Attachment 83637 - Click to enlarge]

[bmichaelb]

There is no pin header, just through holes, To see if P7504 vias have solder on them you will have to look underneath the main board unfortunately, then you can solder a new pin header, If you don't feel comfortable doing it just live with what you have. Although there should be plenty of switched 5V and 12V points on the board, no need for the fan to stay on, Good luck.


[Attachment 83637 - Click to enlarge]

Holy crap... good eye! I definitely need new glasses. Usually pulling the board isn't an issue for me, as I used to modify D!shnet satellite boxes. (Well.. I converted Bell XPressVu into D!shnet... same parent company, so models were basically the same boards). I originally wanted to drill and screw mount the fan, but wasn't sure how involved pulling the board would be. But after lifting the green board, there's not much more to it, except for the front panel and DVD tray. I can pull the board, remove the front panel, then tape and wrap the drive with a plastic bag. Unless it comes out just as easily. Even if it doesn't have vias connected with the pin holes, I'll look for a temporary source that terminates upon shutdown. The cap I'm using now wasn't powered when the unit was plugged in, only once it was powered on... then stays on after powerdown.

I really only need this for 30 tapes... the entire 65-hour Woodstock 99 PPV. After that, I only have a few hockey tapes, then I'm done with it. I was only sharing for others that may want an upgrade. I didn't even notice it was running at first... I have a space heater in fan-only mode as white noise, and it wasn't until I unplugged to move it that I noticed the hum of the Noctua. The easiest solution is just to use a powerbar... flip the switch when done.

Side note: mounting fan inside has a tiny bit of whirrr, but mounting outside on the back was worse.

[cholla]

That is a good price... the Noctua's $14 USD. How loud is it though? I mean, Noctua's are King when it comes to PC fans. Quiet and powerful

It is about the same loudness as the original was before it quit.
Not bad but you can hear it if the TV volume is muted or very low.

I have had good results with Arctic PC fans.
I did not look for one for my replacement fan.
I used a part number I found on a forum for my DVR.
I should have checked for an Arctic the correct size.

[bmichaelb]

That is a good price... the Noctua's $14 USD. How loud is it though? I mean, Noctua's are King when it comes to PC fans. Quiet and powerful

It is about the same loudness as the original was before it quit.
Not bad but you can hear it if the TV volume is muted or very low.

I have had good results with Arctic PC fans.
I did not look for one for my replacement fan.
I used a part number I found on a forum for my DVR.
I should have checked for an Arctic the correct size.

Cheers.

[bmichaelb]

Well crap. After pulling the controller board, the RCA audio out jacks are silent. My project is 30 tapes long, all spliced together, so I capture everything first, then edit one by one. It wasn't until I started editing that I noticed there was no audio. Input works, and optical out works... so I connected a 192K optical to RCA digital to analog converter. I know that's analog (vcr) -> digital (DMR-ES16's optical out) -> analog (optical to RCA adapter) -> digital (capture card), but I figured that the DMR-ES16 passes the audio and video through a buffer anyway, so even that's analog->digital->analog->digital. There's 120~125ms a/v delay if I bypass the DMR with the audio.

So now... I have to recapture everything yet again. This time I have VirtualDub's volume meter displayed during captures. I'll deal with the controller board later. My guess is a loose ribbon cable after I fiddled with it. Hopefully.

[aramkolt]

I did get one of these for testing. Kind of odd that these actually use Nichicon caps in for a lot of the through hole caps, which I haven't seen in too many consumer products these days.

I will say mine had almost every SMT capacitor bad on the digital board - they didn't always test bad in-circuit, but most were bad after removing, so I replaced them all. The one I didn't have an exact match for was a 390uf 2.5V, so I just used a 330uF 6.3V capacitor instead. I could have probably put a 47uf capacitor in parallel to get closer to the 390, but I didn't really think about it at the time that the difference would matter which I doubt it will. Most capacitors have a tolerance of 20% in either direction, so a 390uf cap reading 330uf instead would be within the usual spec. My guess is your audio issue is due to those SMT caps needing replacement.

I also agree, the little heatsinked chip gets quite hot indeed during normal operation. Might be more advantageous to put a fan right above that forcing air onto that heatsink. wouldn't be the prettiest solution, but you could even cut a hole in the top case and bolt a fan to that forcing air in from above right onto that chip, though that would require that you don't stack anything else on top of it. I'd also have to verify if there's actually enough room to put a fan there height-wise, though you could mount the fan outside of the case and still pointing down and then fan height would not be a factor.

Other than that, haven't done any testing, but again was surprised it had top tier brands of through hole caps anyway. The SMT caps looked like they were probably more generic though.

[bmichaelb]

I did get one of these for testing. Kind of odd that these actually use Nichicon caps in for a lot of the through hole caps, which I haven't seen in too many consumer products these days.

I will say mine had almost every SMT capacitor bad on the digital board - they didn't always test bad in-circuit, but most were bad after removing, so I replaced them all. The one I didn't have an exact match for was a 390uf 2.5V, so I just used a 330uF 6.3V capacitor instead. I could have probably put a 47uf capacitor in parallel to get closer to the 390, but I didn't really think about it at the time that the difference would matter which I doubt it will. Most capacitors have a tolerance of 20% in either direction, so a 390uf cap reading 330uf instead would be within the usual spec. My guess is your audio issue is due to those SMT caps needing replacement.

I was thinking I bent a pin or something reconnecting the board, but then if that was the case, then the connectors wouldn't sit flush. That's why I was thinking one of those ribbon cables might be slightly loose, or just not sitting in it's connector properly. That's why I'm waiting until I finish capturing before tinkering again, incase I make it worse. I didn't want to mess with it until finishing the first time around, but gave in to curiosity. Blah.

So you think just by pulling the board, then reconnecting it that that somehow tripped a bad cap?

I also agree, the little heatsinked chip gets quite hot indeed during normal operation. Might be more advantageous to put a fan right above that forcing air onto that heatsink. wouldn't be the prettiest solution, but you could even cut a hole in the top case and bolt a fan to that forcing air in from above right onto that chip, though that would require that you don't stack anything else on top of it. I'd also have to verify if there's actually enough room to put a fan there height-wise, though you could mount the fan outside of the case and still pointing down and then fan height would not be a factor.

Yeah, it's pretty tight in there. I have an old AMD heatsink with the same clamping system I considered putting in there, but there's just no room. A fan on top of the lid though sounds interesting.

Other than that, haven't done any testing, but again was surprised it had top tier brands of through hole caps anyway. The SMT caps looked like they were probably more generic though.

I wonder if there's any difference with the ES15's. I know the ES16 has an analog tuner, while the ES15's are supposed to be digital. Either way, the unit has been absolutely rock solid for me. Paired with a Pinnacle USB 510 (old chipset), and I seriously get no drops or inserts, and audio is perfectly synced in VDub, even after a glitch in the tape that would normally result in multiple inserts.