Text problems on video

[Georget0079]

Hi there, I've been editing for a long time but one problem I have faced before and now again, is producing high quality text on a background.

So for example, I have a plain colour background with white text on the front. It looks fine and really nice when I'm editing, but once it's rendered and I see it on a larger screen, or/and particularly when it's uploaded to youtube, it appears to lose quality, the white becomes a bit shiny, and doesn't have the smooth 'matt' effect that it had in the editing software, or like the professional videos I see with white text on a plain background.


I am only using Inshot, but I have used Vegas before and had the same problem. Does anyone have any advice please, or knwo why this is happening and what I'm doing wrong?

Many thanks

[poisondeathray]

Colored text (or any fine colored objects) deterioration is generally from 4:2:0 chroma subsampling .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

4:2:0 is the only format that youtube currently supports. The color information is 1/2 width, 1/2 height. e.g. if you have a 1920x1080 video, the color information is only 960x540 . That causes blurry color edges instead of razor sharp color boundaries

White text doesn't have that problem (or black text on a white background) because white/black information is full resolution (1920x1080 video would have 1920x1080 of white/black infomration)

Avoid fine colored text or fonts with fine lines. Use large fonts.

Another workaround is to use higher resolution in a small viewer . e.g. a UHD 4:2:0 video (3840x2160) in youtube (with vector text generated at that resolution) would have 1920x1080 of color information . So when it's downscaled to the 1920x1080 viewer, the colored text will look more crisp than if it was at 1920x1080 to begin with

And if it's not for youtube, you can use full color , not subsampled color format ie. YUV 4:4:4 , or perhaps an RGB format. That would look like it was in the editor

[Georget0079]

Colored text (or any fine colored objects) deterioration is generally from 4:2:0 chroma subsampling .
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling

4:2:0 is the only format that youtube currently supports. The color information is 1/2 width, 1/2 height. e.g. if you have a 1920x1080 video, the color information is only 960x540 . That causes blurry color edges instead of razor sharp color boundaries

White text doesn't have that problem (or black text on a white background) because white/black information is full resolution (1920x1080 video would have 1920x1080 of white/black infomration)

Avoid fine colored text or fonts with fine lines. Use large fonts.

Another workaround is to use higher resolution in a small viewer . e.g. a UHD 4:2:0 video (3840x2160) in youtube (with vector text generated at that resolution) would have 1920x1080 of color information . So when it's downscaled to the 1920x1080 viewer, the colored text will look more crisp than if it was at 1920x1080 to begin with

And if it's not for youtube, you can use full color , not subsampled color format ie. YUV 4:4:4 , or perhaps an RGB format. That would look like it was in the editor

Thanks for your reply. The text is white, on a mid green background, but the quality of the text has still deteriorated on YouTube. I've had it up a day so it's had time to process. The text looks like the background colour had bleeded into the edge of the text slightly, with the edges showing a slightly bright paler green than the actual green background, almost like it's created an illuminious outline. Compared to the rendered video it's quite a difference.

So is the background colour to blame, and will using one do the fixes you mentioned work with that?

[poisondeathray]

So is the background colour to blame,

Yes, because the green will bleed into the text. That's exactly what you 'd expect

Compared to the rendered video it's quite a difference.

Rendered - as in viewed in editor - or some exported video ?

and will using one do the fixes you mentioned work with that?

The one about using 4:4:4 and not using youtube will

[Georget0079]

[QUOTE=poisondeathray;2709659]

So is the background colour to blame,

Yes, because the green will bleed into the text. That's exactly what you 'd expect

Compared to the rendered video it's quite a difference.

Rendered - as in viewed in editor - or some exported video ?

and will using one do the fixes you mentioned work with that?

I mean the exported video. It looks fine in the viewer, and also when exported, it's only when on YouTube it happens. The videos are only for youtube, so the best solution would be to render in a higher resolution, (3840x2160) do you think? Which I won't be able to do in Inshot, do you know of any free editors that will allow that?

[poisondeathray]

The videos are only for youtube, so the best solution would be to render in a higher resolution, (3840x2160) do you think? Which I won't be able to do in Inshot, do you know of any free editors that will allow that?

kdenlive, shotcut . Everything has to be generated at the native resolution in a UHD project timeline

It's not ideal, because you have no way of "forcing" a user to view the UHD version. If someone is watching on a phone, or 1920x1080 display, or HDTV (not UHD TV), they will automatically get the lower quality version . It will look no different. Also, some setups might downsample to the display with low quality - so the effect might not be as intended - because it also depends on GPU setup, drivers, browser setup. Many choose the tradeoff of fast , low quality downsampling to improve playback and reduce dropped frames for streaming. So the text might actually look worse and blocky in that situation. That workaround does not address the actual underlying problem . So do some short tests and see if it's worth it for you viewers


You can also consider design workarounds. Such as bordered or outlined text (text stroke). A green BG bleeding into white text but with black stroke might not look as bad depending on what you are doing. The green will bleed into the black buffer, but the white will remain white and crisp

[Georget0079]

The videos are only for youtube, so the best solution would be to render in a higher resolution, (3840x2160) do you think? Which I won't be able to do in Inshot, do you know of any free editors that will allow that?

kdenlive, shotcut . Everything has to be generated at the native resolution in a UHD project timeline

It's not ideal, because you have no way of "forcing" a user to view the UHD version. If someone is watching on a phone, or 1920x1080 display, or HDTV (not UHD TV), they will automatically get the lower quality version . It will look no different. Also, some setups might downsample to the display with low quality - so the effect might not be as intended - because it also depends on GPU setup, drivers, browser setup. That workaround does not address the actual underlying problem . So do some short tests and see if it's worth it for you viewers


You can also consider design workarounds. Such as bordered or outlined text (text stroke). A green BG bleeding into white text but with black stroke might not look as bad depending on what you are doing. The green will bleed into the black buffer, but the white will remain white and crisp

How do large channels and professionals get around it for their youtube videos? The logo is plain white on a green background, so i kinda need to stick with it. I've seen other videos on YouTube with white text on a plain background and they seem fine, so I'm curious what they do

[poisondeathray]

How do large channels and professionals get around it for their youtube videos? The logo is plain white on a green background, so i kinda need to stick with it. I've seen other videos on YouTube with white text on a plain background and they seem fine, so I'm curious what they do

There will be some bleeding. It's simple math and unavoidable. Post an example that you think looks "fine". It could be they use a larger logo, so the problem is less visible

[poisondeathray]

Or there could be other problems that you haven't described clearly in your text description. e.g. maybe you exported uploaded an incorrect format e.g interlaced flag - and it gets deinterlaced and farther degraded on youtube. Maybe you used too low of a bitrate. There could be other potential issues that you haven't communicated. Does the exported video look ok locally in a player (e.g .VLC, MPCHC) before uploading to YT ? Or post some examples.

[Georget0079]

Or there could be other problems that you haven't described clearly in your text description. e.g. maybe you exported uploaded an incorrect format e.g interlaced flag - and it gets deinterlaced and farther degraded on youtube. Maybe you used too low of a bitrate. There could be other potential issues that you haven't communicated. Does the exported video look ok locally in a player (e.g .VLC, MPCHC) before uploading to YT ? Or post some examples.

Ok I'll upload some examples, need to work out how first, doesn't seem to work on my phone

[Georget0079]

Or there could be other problems that you haven't described clearly in your text description. e.g. maybe you exported uploaded an incorrect format e.g interlaced flag - and it gets deinterlaced and farther degraded on youtube. Maybe you used too low of a bitrate. There could be other potential issues that you haven't communicated. Does the exported video look ok locally in a player (e.g .VLC, MPCHC) before uploading to YT ? Or post some examples.

Here are the screenshots of the exported video that plays fine on my phone, and a screenshot of the same visual as displayed on YouTube. I've just noticed the green has changed in colour too and gone brighter. Inshot doenst have many options, only render in 1080,4k etc, fps, and format. So perhaps I need to use an editing software where I can match the correct settings for youtube? Btw thanks for all this advice, it's really appreciated.


[Attachment 74459 - Click to enlarge]
[Attachment 74458 - Click to enlarge]

[poisondeathray]

color shifting is probably a Rec709 vs Rec601 mismatch

I'm not familiar with Inshot , but you can use a video editor like shotcut, Kdenlive , if Inshot doesn't fulfill your needs

[Georget0079]

color shifting is probably a Rec709 vs Rec601 mismatch

I'm not familiar with Inshot , but you can use a video editor like shotcut, Kdenlive , if Inshot doesn't fulfill your needs

Ok super, thanks for your help

[jagabo]

The color is a rec.601 vs. rec.709 issue. Youtube assumes everything is rec.709 so you should use that when uploading there.

JPG images use 4:2:0 chroma subsampling too. You should use lossless PNG images to demonstrate chroma subsampling problems.

[Georget0079]

The color is a rec.601 vs. rec.709 issue. Youtube assumes everything is rec.709 so you should use that when uploading there.

JPG images use 4:2:0 chroma subsampling too. You should use lossless PNG images to demonstrate chroma subsampling problems.

Thanks. I put the video through Hitfilm editor which has proper settings and got it to match the video, and had the exporting template as youtube 1080 as couldn't find 4k. But the output was perfect and resulting youtube upload also perfect. I don't know about Rec601 and Rec709 but I saw in the software it had automatch so it appears to have sorted it. Thanks to all who have helped. Great to work this out and get the quality I was looking for