Sync issues in Virtualdub

[DB83]

Essentially, all our experiences differ. Which makes it more difficult to suggest a solution to the OP's issues.


For me, I get no audio drift with basic captures with my current set-up. Granted that I rarely, if ever, use vdub but spread over several topics the OP really needs to establish why his own set-up works for some software but not for others - jeez, he even posted a topic that 24 hrs after a successful capture he failed but provided no info as to potential reasons. And what should work for one, in my book, should work for all.

[dellsam34]

ADVC-300 is being discussed here if you want to check it out.

[lollo]

Originally Posted by lollo View Post
Don't know what you are using, but together with a high end S-VHS VCR with lineTBC or a good VCR with a DVD-R pass-thrugh, a recommended capture card is the first step. All the rest comes after...

There really isn't a "first step". All are important for quality, or capturing at all. I'd rather have a JVC S-VHS with line TBC, and a DataVideo/Cypress frame TBC, and an Easycap (yuck, Easycrap, barf). As opposed to a crummy old VCR, no TBC, and the best ATI AIW capture card. Because the latter will be pure problems. Both of those situations would suck, however, either the Easycap, or the non-TBC/JVC.

Little sense, comparing cat food and dog food, as you love to say . First is obviuosly better, because it is much easier and much much cheaper to replace a crap card than the rest.

It is a first step because not everybody is going to invest in a >2K$ frameTBC, even with a "buy it-use it-sell it" approach you properly suggest.
In some cases (mine for example) is not needed (and is not transparent anyhow); for the generic user the best approach, in my opinion, is to focus on vcr and capture card first, and then add a frameTBC later if necessary. I agree that many cases concern not optimal conditions of tapes and hardware, so frameTBC is often needed.

[lordsmurf]

he never confirmed

This makes bad capturing a PEBKAC error above all else.

But I added those preview details anyway. He can continue to fiddle in silence, or actually reply back with A to get a Q&A.

There's been too many of these sorts of people lately. I don't get it.

[DB83]

Yah got me now smurfy.


Pray enlighten this senior as to what PEBKAC converts to in good ol' Queen's English


Yet I must agree (and I already mentioned this either here or in another of the 'forked' threads. Questions are never answered except with more questions.

[lordsmurf]

PEBKAC = problem exists between keyboard and chair

[DB83]

TYFTE


(This is weird. All upper-case was being converted to lower-case and smiley not working)

[techmot]

I downloaded the Huffuyu codec but how do I install it into Virtualdub?. When I open VDub up and open up the compressions setting there's no codecs added. I've looked at the codec installation guide on here but it doesn't mention how to install them into Vdub.

I captured a 50 min video using the default YU2 settings and the file size was 10GB, even for an uncompressed file that's large for the length. I had to re-edit the video and re-sync the audio as it was out of sync (which I managed to sync up perfectly), saved as an AVI, then I used Handbrake using the H.264 codec with the bitrate set to constant and at 22 quality, and managed to get the file down to about 2GB, but even that is large. I don't know why everyone here is getting so annoyed as all I'm doing is explaining I have audio sync issues in Vdub capturing from my VHS tapes. I'm not a video/audio geek, but I know the basics of capturing. I would still be using OBS Studio if it wasn't for the frame cropping that I can't seem to rectify (and yes I know OBS isn't ideal but at least the audio isn't out of sync and the file size isn't enormous). I noticed it sometimes crops the bottom half of the frame in Vdub, but often if I select "preview" and then select "overlay", it will correct the frame to as it should be, why it does this I don't know, again could be the capture device. I think that the poor quality of the tapes I'm using is contributing to the capturing issues I'm getting, many of the tapes are full of jumps, flickering, scratches etc due to a combination of factors, mainly due to repeated playing and re-recording or a previously bad player wearing the tape away on the heads. Nothing I can really do about that.

[techmot]

Essentially, all our experiences differ. Which makes it more difficult to suggest a solution to the OP's issues.


For me, I get no audio drift with basic captures with my current set-up. Granted that I rarely, if ever, use vdub but spread over several topics the OP really needs to establish why his own set-up works for some software but not for others - jeez, he even posted a topic that 24 hrs after a successful capture he failed but provided no info as to potential reasons. And what should work for one, in my book, should work for all.

It's because I don't know what's causing some capture programmes to work and some not to work. AmatecTV for example won't connect to the capture device. with Vdub I've managed to detect the signal, but my issue now is with audio lag and sync, which I'm guessing maybe down to the tape that is quite badly worn. What info do you need?.

[DB83]

I am not going to ask again. Read ALL the topics you posted and the replies which went unanswered.


And 10 gb for 50 mins is no where close to what uncompressed would give you. More like 100 gb


And you do not, as previously explained, install a codec in vdub. If you installed it correctly when you downloaded it it will be available.

[dellsam34]

I am not going to ask again. Read ALL the topics you posted and the replies which went unanswered.

I still wonder if audio preview is unchecked which he still fails to report, I don't think at this point anyone cares or willing to help anymore anyway.

[Skiller]

Yeah.

I captured a 50 min video using the default YU2 settings and the file size was 10GB, even for an uncompressed file that's large for the length.

As mentioned by DB83 that size is too small. Something must be off here.


Not that it matters but I just felt like doing the math so here we go.

A proper uncompressed PAL YUY2 capture of 50 minutes length would be this size (1536000 is the audio bitrate for 48 KHz and 16 Bits):

(720*576*25*8*2 + 1536000) * 60 * 50 / 8 = 62784000000 Bytes

62784000000 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 ≈ 58.5 GiB

[techmot]

Yeah.

I captured a 50 min video using the default YU2 settings and the file size was 10GB, even for an uncompressed file that's large for the length.

As mentioned by DB83 that size is too small. Something must be off here.


Not that it matters but I just felt like doing the math so here we go.

A proper uncompressed PAL YUY2 capture of 50 minutes length would be this size (1536000 is the audio bitrate for 48 KHz and 16 Bits):

(720*576*25*8*2 + 1536000) * 60 * 50 / 8 = 62784000000 Bytes

62784000000 / 1024 / 1024 / 1024 ≈ 58.5 GiB

I'm capturing at 320x240 not at 720x576. A file so large it would take forever to import it into an editing program and encode it to another format, even using Handbrake. What's the difference between AVI and AVI uncompressed? I thought AVI was uncompressed anyway. I used to capture lots of video from a DV camcorder years ago in Adobe Premiere with only AVI as the output format and with the length being about 30 minutes, and there's no way the file size was 50GB, 2GB at most. The captures I've been doing in Vdub have no loss of quality that I can see.

[techmot]

I am not going to ask again. Read ALL the topics you posted and the replies which went unanswered.

I still wonder if audio preview is unchecked which he still fails to report, I don't think at this point anyone cares or willing to help anymore anyway.

Not sure what you mean by audio preview. If you're meaning "Enable audio playback", that is unchecked, but "enable audio capture" is selected.

[techmot]

I am not going to ask again. Read ALL the topics you posted and the replies which went unanswered.


And 10 gb for 50 mins is no where close to what uncompressed would give you. More like 100 gb


And you do not, as previously explained, install a codec in vdub. If you installed it correctly when you downloaded it it will be available.

So if I didn't need to install the Codec when I downloaded Vdub then why isn't it in the list of codecs?. I could be looking in the wrong place, but in the "Set custom video format" I have it set to frame size: 320x240; Data format: YUY2 YUV 4:2:2 interleaved
In the "Set video compression" settings there is only one (no recompression: YUY2) available in the list, and none of the others in the "Show all codecs, even if they don't work" tab won't work. There's no Uffyuv codec listed.

In audio, it is selected as "No compression (PCM)"

[dellsam34]

320x240? Oh wow. There is 576 active video scan lines in PAL and you just squashed them into 240, Not to mention what kind of butchering will follow during encodung and de-interlacing, 240 not even a multiple integer of 576, It's half NTSC frame or one interlaced field.

[techmot]

I don't know what anyone else thinks about this, but I saw a video which seemed to think that correcting out of sync audio can be corrected in Handbrake by changing the framerate. How the hell can changing the framerate correct the sync?.

[DB83]

In fact 360*240 is NOT an option when capturing PAL video. You could select 360*288 but why would you ? Half-size capturing went out with The Ark. So if you are not seeing either 720*576, but see 720*480, or 360*288, but also see 360*240 you have set up your source incorrectly.


I would still like to see a mediainfo (text mode) report of one of these captures just to confirm the above. But capturing at NTSC frame-rates for PAL video sure is going to screw up the sync.


BTW a 2 gb capture of DV (which is 13 gb per hour) suggests either an older FAT restriction or your transfer program was splitting the capture for you.


So once more. Did you actually install the codec after you downloaded and extracted the files from the zip. No ? Then right-click on the .inf file and select install. If it still does not appear then you have mismatched the codec 32 or 64 bit with the OS and the version of vdub you have installed.

[techmot]

320x240? Oh wow. There is 576 active video scan lines in PAL and you just squashed them into 240, Not to mention what kind of butchering will follow during encodung and de-interlacing, 240 not even a multiple integer of 576, It's half NTSC frame or one interlaced field.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that frame size?. I did select 576x480 in the set custom video format settings, but it says it doesn't support that format.
Is this the right settings?:

[DB83]

Don't set it there. That is more likely to be confirming the setting. Set it by the Capture Pin.


But carry on ignoring me and I walk away.

[dellsam34]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that frame size?. I did select 576x480 in the set custom video format settings, but it says it doesn't support that format.
Is this the right settings?:

How can you miss this post? Oh that's right, you don't read posts:

Here is a copy past in case you don't see the hyperlink:

From the screen shot you posted above and the numbers in it you don't seem to have a clue on what resolution you should set your software at and what frame rates. The frame rate is not resolution, it's the number of frames per second.

NTSC 720x480 @ 59.94 interlaced fields per second or 29.97 fps (2 fields make up one frame).
PAL/SECAM 720x576 @ 50 interlaced fields per second or 25 fps.

The software output resolution is not the capture resolution, it is a resizing on the fly, Capture devices sample at the resolutions posted above, but you can change the output resolution, though not recommended.

In the analog video capture world there is only one canvas and the capture device already knows by hardware design that the canvas is the resolutions I posted above, Therefore OBS is not recommended for analog tape based video formats since it is a multi purpose tool and not specific to the task, just like using the screwdriver from a swiss knife.

[techmot]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't that frame size?. I did select 576x480 in the set custom video format settings, but it says it doesn't support that format.
Is this the right settings?:

How can you miss this post? Oh that's right, you don't read posts:

Here is a copy past in case you don't see the hyperlink:

From the screen shot you posted above and the numbers in it you don't seem to have a clue on what resolution you should set your software at and what frame rates. The frame rate is not resolution, it's the number of frames per second.

NTSC 720x480 @ 59.94 interlaced fields per second or 29.97 fps (2 fields make up one frame).
PAL/SECAM 720x576 @ 50 interlaced fields per second or 25 fps.


The software output resolution is not the capture resolution, it is a resizing on the fly, Capture devices sample at the resolutions posted above, but you can change the output resolution, though not recommended.

In the analog video capture world there is only one canvas and the capture device already knows by hardware design that the canvas is the resolutions I posted above, Therefore OBS is not recommended for analog tape based video formats since it is a multi purpose tool and not specific to the task, just like using the screwdriver from a swiss knife.

I never said the framerate is the resolution. I know what framerates are and that for PAL it is 25fps. I selected a resolution of 620 (no point in going higher) and I noticed on the captured output the audio wasn't as out of sync as my previous captured at 320x240, why that is I don't know. The only problem is that the file was twice the size. What is the point in capturing at such a huge size when you would need terrabytes of HDD to store the files on?. Each file would hardly fit onto a Bluray disc.

If OBS isn't recommended for analog, then why are there lots of videos capturing VHS tapes with it?. There is too much faffing about with Virtualdub, and the audio sync issue is a real pain for me.

[lollo]

If OBS isn't recommended for analog, then why are there lots of videos capturing VHS tapes with it?

For the same reason why people capture at 320x240

I selected a resolution of 620 (no point in going higher)

Indeed

[dellsam34]

There is too much faffing about with Virtualdub, and the audio sync issue is a real pain for me.

Because you are not taking advice, Did anyone suggested 320x240 for PAL? See that's your problem.

[techmot]

There is too much faffing about with Virtualdub, and the audio sync issue is a real pain for me.

Because you are not taking advice, Did anyone suggested 320x240 for PAL? See that's your problem.

That was the resolution I was initially using, now I'm being told that it needs to be higher. I captured a few mins of video at 620, but on playback on the file a few seconds in the video froze, though on capturing all seemed pretty fine aside from the stuttery, jumpy tapes of which there's not really anything I can do about that. I'm guessing that my laptops RAM or processor isn't performing well, or it's down to Virtualdub or the tape jumping which causes the audio (and also video) to lag?. So back to my initial question: what is causing the audio lag? is it my laptop not being capable of processing the video, Vdub not being configured correctly, or something else like my capture device?. Is this a common problem with Virtualdub do you know as I'm assuming it is.

[dellsam34]

What's 620? Did anybody suggested 620? You're speculating again, chasing your tail.

[techmot]

I may've sorted the audio sync issue out as I came across a comment on a youtube video which seemed to suggest to fix the audio lag you can select "Capture" in Vdub and then select "timing", and by selecting "Sync video to audio by adjusting video timing". Thought I'd have a go and decided to try an old Hi8 camcorder tape (camcorder tapes seem to be less prone to wear and deteriation than full size VHS tapes IMO, why that is I'm not sure). Captured a few minutes of video and the outputted video was perfectly in sync with the audio. Why noone on here bothered to even mention this solution I don't know. Haven't tested it on my VHS player yet as I'm now having issues with the heads being clogged up with dust from all the worn tapes I've been chucking in the thing, and I'm not keen on video head cleaner tapes as I've heard they're crap and it's better to manually clean the heads.

[DB83]

Which simply confirms that you do not bother to read the replies given.


'Timings' were mentioned in the very FIRST reply #2

[Skiller]

Touché.

If the default setting (sync audio to video) does not spit out synchronous audio you can be pretty sure that the opposite setting (sync video to audio) doesn't either. It's a lucky coincidence, again. The latter setting also leaves you with a non-standard video frame rate which is rather undesirable.

[techmot]

Touché.

If the default setting (sync audio to video) does not spit out synchronous audio you can be pretty sure that the opposite setting (sync video to audio) doesn't either. It's a lucky coincidence, again. The latter setting also leaves you with a non-standard video frame rate which is rather undesirable.

You have a better solution? if that doesn't fix the lag then what will?. Is this down to my CPU and processor, or is it an issue with Vdub or the capture device?. Has anyone else on here experienced the same problem as I can't be the only one who has. Also, setting the resolution higher than 320, especially at 720, produces a noticeable amount video stuttering, which I'm assuming is due to my processor, or could be the capture device.