Help - VHS to h.264, bit rate for archiving

[kamoo]

I’ve embarked on a huge project of digitizing my 200 or so VHSs. I did some TV work as a performer in the past and these are valuable momentos that I’d like to keep in as good quality as possible. After reading loads on how to do it, I’m missing the last step –
at what bit rate should I have my finished versions to have the optimum tradeoff between file size and quality?

Here’s what I’ve done so far:
VHS (mostly PAL but some NTSC tapes as well) to h.264 from VHS player that has an HDMI output, capturing with an Avermedia C027 PCI card, capturing at 1920 x 1080, 50fps, 15000kb bit rate.
I trim the videos losslessly with Avidemux to size, and they take up about 6gb per hour.
I’ve done a lot of tests with Adobe Encoder and Handbrake, and have found, at least to my eye, the video looks pretty much the same when I use Encoder using even the setting
H.264 Match Source – Adaptive Low Bit Rate (Target bit rate 1.9Mbos – 720x576, 50fps).
That gives me a file size a fifth or so as big as the original.
Also with Handbrake constant quality 22 gives me a much smaller file.
My questions – what bit rate would you recommend for my “precious” archives?
And any tricks as to how to compare my test videos?
They all look pretty much to same, i.e. crappy VHS quality, especially the home made ones. Thanks!

[jagabo]

For high quality archiving I would use around CRF 12. For just watching CRF 18 or so. But pretty much everything you're doing is wrong if you want high quality captures. You really want to use a line TBC before capturing.You should not have upscaled before capturing. You should have captured SD res with a lossless codec. Then done any editing and filtering. Then you start thinking about compression codecs and settings.

[lordsmurf]

Capturing VHS at 1920x1080 will make a mess.
Don't do that.

[Brad]

I agree completely with posts 2 & 3.

You didn't mention the model of "VHS player" you're using. The VCR you use is the most important part if what you want is "as good quality as possible."

[kamoo]

Thanks jagabo, lordsmurf and vaporeon800 for your comments!

I should clarify -
I would like the quality to be as "good as possible" but I realize that is very vague - my wife just gave me some perspective - my VHSs have been in the basement for YEARS, we need the space, and apparently shelf-life is 20 years or so for a VHS, (which is already past!), I don't forsee using the material for any promotional reasons, but they are very fond memories and so need to be kept, and some of the friends in the videos (old promo videos from performing friends - variety circuit). So I'd like as good as possible for home use, without going overboard.

I am using a Daewoo DRV-6815S VHS PAL/SECAM player with an HDMI out, connected over a HDMI splitter to my Avermedia capture card (without the splitter the copyright thingy got in the way).
I have the setting on the card at capture at 1920x1080, but the actually capture videos come out as 720 x 576 so I guess it changes that automatically.

I researched TBCs and found lists of good machines, but seems as if they are extremely difficult to find as no longer made, and if found, somewhat pricy.
My plan is to digitize the VHSs and then throw them out, so I'd like to get it right, but as it's just for keepsake, I can't go overboard and look for new equipment. The corona lockdown has given me time to do this project that I would never have time for otherwise.
The quality of the captures so far has been OK, the VHSs that came from professional productions obviously look better than the home made low budget productions. Unfortunately, I've come too far along in the project to change too much as I've already digitized about 100 videos.

Any thoughts to Encoder vs Handbrake, and especially the setting adaptive low bit rate? Adaptive vs. constant bit rate?

[Brad]

apparently shelf-life is 20 years or so for a VHS, (which is already past!)

Someone's either misinformed or trying to scare you with those numbers. People around here transfer tapes from the 80s all the time without encountering notable magnetic losses or physical tape degradation, and I'm subscribed to a YouTube channel that often posts 70s news broadcasts from VHS.

I am using a Daewoo DRV-6815S VHS PAL/SECAM player with an HDMI out, connected over a HDMI splitter to my Avermedia capture card (without the splitter the copyright thingy got in the way).
I have the setting on the card at capture at 1920x1080, but the actually capture videos come out as 720 x 576 so I guess it changes that automatically.

The C027 definitely can't upscale input sources; it sounds like you have the player set to 576p output. That's much better than capturing at 1080p.

You should change it to 576i (interlaced) if the Daewoo offers that option and capture at 25fps. In its menu settings, you may have to look for an option called Progressive and turn it Off.

Unfortunately, I've come too far along in the project to change too much as I've already digitized about 100 videos.

Sunk cost fallacy: "I've done 100 sub-optimally, so I have to intentionally screw up the next 100 to match."

Any thoughts to Encoder vs Handbrake, and especially the setting adaptive low bit rate? Adaptive vs. constant bit rate?

Drop Adobe, then follow jagabo's advice. In Handbrake, Constant Quality CRF 12 for archiving. This produces a file that has an "adaptive" bitrate, but you don't specify the bitrate.

https://handbrake.fr/docs/en/latest/workflow/adjust-quality.html

[lordsmurf]

and apparently shelf-life is 20 years or so for a VHS

No. Myth. VHS is about 35-65 years. Some of my oldest 80s BASF tapes have mild flaking, but my 70s Panasonic tapes are still fine. Other 80s tapes fine. All of my 90s tapes are fine, as well as the few used in the early 2000s.

(which is already past!), I don't forsee using the material for any promotional reasons, but they are very fond memories and so need to be kept, and some of the friends in the videos (old promo videos from performing friends - variety circuit). So I'd like as good as possible for home use, without going overboard.

There is no "overboard". There is correctly and incorrectly. Correctly is using a quality S-VHS VCR with line TBC, some sort of frame TBC, then quality capture card. Not HD, not HDMI, not cheapo VCR from the basement (or craptastic combo VHS/DVD player from 2000s/2010s).

I researched TBCs and found lists of good machines, but seems as if they are extremely difficult to find as no longer made, and if found, somewhat pricy.
My plan is to digitize the VHSs and then throw them out, so I'd like to get it right, but as it's just for keepsake, I can't go overboard and look for new equipment. The corona lockdown has given me time to do this project that I would never have time for otherwise.

The problem now is that everybody has the time. This is possibly why hardware is seemingly impossible to come by right now. That and folks are unwilling to sell/ship anything, don't want to hassle with shipping. It was already difficult, but is now far more difficult. TBCs are the toilet paper of video right now. Many people want/need one, but the shelves are empty. You must queue up in line, and wait for more to arrive.

The quality of the captures so far has been OK,

"OK" in the tiny preview window? I bet okay becomes crap once viewed one large HD set. Upload a sample.

Any thoughts to Encoder vs Handbrake, and especially the setting adaptive low bit rate? Adaptive vs. constant bit rate?

Back up. What are you doing? Encoding from what to what?

Unfortunately, I've come too far along in the project to change too much as I've already digitized about 100 videos.

Sunk cost fallacy: "I've done 100 sub-optimally, so I have to intentionally screw up the next 100 to match."

LOL! I must remember that one.

[kamoo]

Thanks to all for your comments so far!
There is so much conflicting info around and so many ways to skin the VHS that I’m having difficulties getting a work flow together.

I would like to do my PAL VHS capture project with the equipment I already have. (unfortunately I can’t find any TBCs for sale in my country)
Daewoo DRV-6815S VHS player –output can be set to either 576i or 576p, it has an HDMI output
AverMedia C027 Capture card – automatically records 576i as 25 fps, 576p as 50fps

The C027 capture card has these possible capture formats:
MPEG-2
AVI (lossless – huge files)
WMA
H.264 (Entrop mode – CAVLC or CABAC)

Should I let the Daewoo player do the deinterlacing or do it afterwards with software? (Virtualdub or Avidemux or ?)
Should I capture with the lossless AVI and then work on it?
Any filters I should use to clean up the captures? (Noise reduction or similar?)
My end goal is to have smaller sized archive videos for watching on computers.
Thanks for any help figuring our my workflow!

[jagabo]

Capture (no deinteracling) as lossless AVI. Filter, deinterlace with QTGMC in AviSynth. Save final product with h.264 compression.

[Brad]

The C027 capture card has these possible capture formats:
MPEG-2
AVI (lossless – huge files)
WMA
H.264 (Entrop mode – CAVLC or CABAC)

It's a DirectShow card, so it has infinite possible capture formats. Ditch the included software, install lossless codecs (Ut Video, Huffyuv, MagicYUV, Lagarith), capture with VirtualDub.

[dellsam34]

If that Daewoo VCR takes the Y/C signal from tape and digitizes it to HDMI I assume it should have some sort of TBC'ish functionality in its ADC chip like most of the internal analog HDMI chips do, Though just an assumption. So like the folks said, Set the VCR to 576i and capture lossless AVI in Vdub, edit, restore if necessary and encode to H.264 mp4.

If you could open the VCR and note all the chips part #'s you can find the ADC chip spec online and it will tel you what it does to the analog signal.