Recording VCD's a quick dying breed?

[end80]

I just got started being enthused about burning vcd's - I am very much a newbie.. But now I see that already there are internal DVD writers for your computer as low as $262

See:
http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2881716,00.html

And you can pretty well bet that it wont be long before they get even cheaper..

At these prices it hardly seems the hobby of burning vcd's is going to last very much longer... Unless I am ignorant of some factor

Would be interested to hear some opinions on this from this forum...

[solarfox]

Well, nothing lasts forever, certainly... how many people do you know who still record their music onto 8-tracks or open-reel tapes? (Heck, cassettes are slowly but surely dying out these days, for that matter.)

I can think of a few factors that'll keep VCD going for a bit longer, though:

(1) price - Granted, the price on DVD-R media has been falling recently, but it's still several times more expensive than CD-R's.

(2) burn speed - Maximum burn speed is currently around 2X, so it's at least a half-hour for each DVD-R, vs. 5 minutes or less for a CD-R. Might not be important if you're making one copy, but if you need to turn out several dozen copies of something, that's an awfully long time to be burning discs... (This also ties into price, above; 2X media is more expensive than 1X, and it's a fair assumption that when the promised 4X drives/media arrive on the scene they'll command a premium price also.)

(3) compatibility with existing players - Believe it or not, it's still easier to get VCD's to play on existing set-top DVD players than it is to get DVD-/+R(W) discs to play. (Note that by "existing", I don't just mean "models currently on sale", but all the DVD players which have already been bought over the last few years and are currently sitting in the homes of people who are perfectly happy with them and don't want to replace them just yet.)

Now, all of these factors will eventually decline to the point that VideoCD no longer has a compelling advantage over recordable DVD's... but not just yet.

[snowmoon]

I kinda agree, but your points are off.

(1) price - Granted, the price on DVD-R media has been falling recently, but it's still several times more expensive than CD-R's.

CD= .40 DVD = $1.50 CD=800MB DVD = 4.3GB

Although DVD video usually takes up more space I would have no problem putting 3 hrs/disk and that's 4 time what I can get on a CD(SVCD). I would gladly pay 1.50/disk dor DVD's.

(2) burn speed - Maximum burn speed is currently around 2X, so it's at least a half-hour for each DVD-R, vs. 5 minutes or less for a CD-R. Might not be important if you're making one copy, but if you need to turn out several dozen copies of something, that's an awfully long time to be burning discs... (This also ties into price, above; 2X media is more expensive than 1X, and it's a fair assumption that when the promised 4X drives/media arrive on the scene they'll command a premium price also.)

Actually the sont 4x +-rw drive is selling at dell for ~250 after discouts. Just as CD-RW price just seem to be dropping the faster they get, the same will occur with DVD-+RW as public demand grows. 30 minutes for 3 hrs of video, sure it's slower, but I'de be burning a whole lot less often.

(3) compatibility with existing players - Believe it or not, it's still easier to get VCD's to play on existing set-top DVD players than it is to get DVD-/+R(W) discs to play. (Note that by "existing", I don't just mean "models currently on sale", but all the DVD players which have already been bought over the last few years and are currently sitting in the homes of people who are perfectly happy with them and don't want to replace them just yet.)

Actually DVD-R is almost universally compatible with older drives. I'm sure SONY is the lead to follow with the new -+ RW drive so it can read and write BOTH formats.

I would say that some of the things holding DVD's back.

1) Its' not feasable to trade DVD's over the newsgroups/p2p/... yet. They are just too big.

2) Critical mass. It's still a fringe item. I know MANY people just waiting for a 4x or better drive to drop below $150 and they will start flying off the shelves.

3) VCD is still a major format in many asian countries.

I'll bet you that by the christmas season we start seeing bare drives at the $150 mark. With discs in bulk already falling below $1 ( name brand 1-2$ ) it's not long before I can abandon SVCD and just start doing DVDs!

[end80]

Hmmm... yes, very good points you posted.
Makes sense..

In that case I guess I may wait another year or so before buying a dvd writer.. I'm not particularly interested in spending several hundred dollars for the slow burn - and the possibility of non compatibility - especially when I can accomplish basically the same thing with vcd's for free!

My short-circuited enthusiasm for vcd's are renewed again!

But... (ahem) It so happens that I still record music on open-reel tapes!!

Thanks for your post

[fmctm1sw]

Cheap DVD writers and media = good news!
Yes, I have a pile of VCDs laying around too. Who cares? When DVD gets as cheap, I'll have a pile of them laying around too. I just hope my Apex player lasts long enough for me to be able to play my VCDs for a while. I am really put off by one thing right now though:

A STANDARD DVD format. DVD-RAM, DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD-WTF????
Some players play one and not the other, etc, etc, etc.... That's my beef right now...

[neomaine]

end80,

Being on the verge of having to buy a new drive (after 400+ burns) I'm with you on the cost issue for now. Here's a snippet from one of my posts:

-----------
Guess I don't want to have to make the choice of whether to go CDRW or DVDR on my next drive. Figuring on 5 cents a disc x 2 plus the cost of a drive ($50) for 100 movies, on the one hand you can make a VCD for about @ $.60 a movie. Not to mention the experience to getting them to the point they are looking very acceptable.

On the other hand I could go with a $250 DVDR drive and media for about $1 apiece (from what I've seen mentioned here...) and get DVD quality movies on DVDR for about $3.50 a movie. But, that would seriously hamper my funds to get a Panasonic Q.

Hopefully Santa is listening and he'll put a DVD+/-RW drive in my stocking this year as I've been a very very good boy. I'll have to have the tooth fairy put in a good word...
----------

VCD is still going to be around for awhile. For me, it'll be when DVD-/+R drives are $100-150 and reliable media is in the $.40-$.50 range.

[Nelson37]

VCD, and SVCD and X-variants will still be useful for a couple years, particularly for bulk copying and casual use, remember CD prices will fall, as well, when it's $5.00 for 100 quality disks (900+ MB) and $35.00 for a 40x burner they will be entry-level for some time. With the longevity of disks, and low-cost of multi-disk players, Prologic 2 sound, the disks themselves will retain value for many years.

DVD needs to get ONE standard format, 2x drives under $150.00, QUALITY disks at well under a buck a pop, re-writable. If those idiots would have picked a compatible standard FIRST then DVD burners would ALREADY be flying off the store shelves at much less than $250 by now.

The various methods used will still be useful for stretching the capacity of DVD.

[Bullworth]

True, as soon as DVD writers and media become nearly as affordable as CDRWs then the future of VCDs will be limited. I beleive that it will still have it's uses such as sharing short clips or for people who want to record short TV shows or home video it's a good medium.
Kinda strange and sad that it's eventually going to happen, probably sooner that later. With cassettes the technology was, and still is albiet in very limited manner, around for almost 20+years before CDs came on the scene and even so it was quite a while before it was clear they were here to stay and not another fad.
Would be funny the VCD forums get moved to a Old School Digital Video Forum. Technology moves so fast these days by the time you hear about something "new" something "even newer" has already replaced it. I've been making VCDs for about 3yrs now and have quite a collection. Sure appreciate the learning experience. l

[Thorn]

Actually, the price ratio is closer to this (in sufficient quantities):
TDK CDR: $0.22 TDK DVD-R: $2.75

Or for cheapo discs (always in bulk):
Generic see-through CD-R $0.05 Generic 1x DVD-R $0.79

So price is sortof an issue... but not a big one and not for long.

Also, the simlicity of VCD helps... just encode an mpeg with CBR mpeg1 (TMPGenc is free for vcd) and burn. Takes no time at all (unless you're filtering ).

DVD is a different matter... encoding an interlaced mpeg2 (encoders usually not free) is a different art. Furthermore every disc must be authored. Sure you can go with the ulead junk, but many people (including me) feel the need to 'do it right' and make it look nice. All this slows down the adoption of DVD-r because it is not a simple upgrade from cd-r.

Lastly, VCDs will stick around because they play on the same hardware as DVDs. Unlike cassettes, CDs and DVDs can co-exist with minimal extra costs for the hardware.

I see VCDs as dying a very slow death... and I see support for them continuing until CDs die out (same harware to read audio cds). It's kindof like VHS... that's been hanging around and will continue to do so until dvr units get cheap. Or 2007 when HDTV standards make VHS unable to work.

[normano]

I dont see a reason to go to DVD till I am able to copy 5.1 audio without having to much to mess with, media is less expensive and one standard has emerged.

[Digifreak]

Now you don't have to wait for a standard to emerge, +/-R/RW and at $254 + tax. See my previous post at:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=116276

[normano]

I don't much care for systems with multiple standards, kinda Jack of all trades master of none. But this is a moot if this software does what it claims and it supports one of the standards I will go with it. And VCD/SVCD will die if what the claims of the this software are true..
check out link.
http://www.dvdxcopy.com/index.htm

[snowmoon]

normano:

Busy promoting this dvdxcopy arn't you!