YouTube keep changing frame rate

[kodec]

YouTube keep changing the frame rate of a PAL sourced HD 25 fps uploads to 30 fps. I read people complain about it since 2009.

https://productforums.google.com/forum/#!topic/youtube/5garYiKBzlo

So there's nothing to do about it to preserve the original framerate but to live with it?

[KarMa]

You can check with (http://www.h3xed.com/blogmedia/youtube-info.php) to see what the fps is.

At least with BBC stuff on Youtube, it's 25fps. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yE022B3alRc

[kodec]

I check it on Youtube, right click on the video / stats for nerds. Btw that link of yours keeps reporting "Failed to get video info". And that's because the video is still private I guess

Anyway, if someone knows is there anything to do please say. Maybe BBC works beacuse they pay for it

[KarMa]

This BBC program was uploaded by some individual who probably did not pay youtube anything, and it has a framerate of 25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FTrbXiB8NA

[kodec]

Just found another one of numberless examples, the poor guy even put in the title it's 25 as a showcase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ2ViO8I24s

Irritating.

[kodec]

This BBC program was uploaded by some individual who probably did not pay youtube anything, and it has a framerate of 25. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FTrbXiB8NA

Yes, but he upped it in SD, that's why I said HD in the first place and provided one of the discussions on that matter, there are a few on this forum too. It is just the same problem now that people talked about in 2009, with HD, not SD.

[pandy]

Maybe for some formats but i can't confirm overall complain that every video has changed fps - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rTm6yD_0580 this is 50 fps video and another one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vWtNQQwCS8E or this one (uploaded some time ago) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZQ3-nnoXGng

[kodec]

I'm sure there are certainly one milion different examples but I'm only interested in a solution, if there is any, to this omniconfirmed problem that's been present for years, no hard feelings pandy

[manono]

Just found another one of numberless examples, the poor guy even put in the title it's 25 as a showcase

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZ2ViO8I24s

Irritating.

All resolutions of that one are 29.97fps. If he had really created it at 25fps and YouTube had converted it to 29.97fps, either it would play very fast (it doesn't seem to) or every sixth frame would be a duplicate (it isn't). My conclusion is that the guy, either knowingly or unknowingly, actually shot it at 29.97fps.

[kodec]

Hi manono. Yes, as said there are probably million different cases. But my 25 fps case and all those other people who confirmed the problem over the years in discussions show that in some cases something is clearly wrong and I'd like to know if it can be fixed. If not I'll just forget it and live with it that PAL unfriendly YouTube sucks.


Just to confirm, YouTube changed my 720p uploaded PAL sourced 25 fps video to 30 fps in every lower resolution too.

[manono]

Yes, but your link that was supposed to provide proof of the problem was dated from 2009. Seven years ago. Surely if there was a problem once, they would have fixed it by now. I have uploaded (standard def) 25fps videos from time to time and never seen the problem. According to YouTube, 25 fps is a perfectly acceptable framerate.

I haven't seen any evidence yet of recent videos where this might be happening.

Just to confirm, YouTube changed my 720p uploaded PAL sourced 25 fps video to 30 fps in every lower resolution too.

Link please?

[kodec]

I have sent it to you in PM, please check there. I'm not going to publish it until I know for sure what's going on.

[pandy]

I'm sure there are certainly one milion different examples but I'm only interested in a solution, if there is any, to this omniconfirmed problem that's been present for years, no hard feelings pandy

Not taken hehe, perhaps issue is related to format and metadata (not CFR video for example) - perhaps you can try force pull-down 2:2 so video will be visible to YT as 50fps and as such non modified.

[kodec]

I'm sure there are certainly one milion different examples but I'm only interested in a solution, if there is any, to this omniconfirmed problem that's been present for years, no hard feelings pandy

Not taken hehe, perhaps issue is related to format and metadata (not CFR video for example) - perhaps you can try force pull-down 2:2 so video will be visible to YT as 50fps and as such non modified.

Thanks, sounds promising, will try it later.

[kodec]

Meanwhile manono checked it by downloading it and discovered "Stats for nerds" are wrong and that the video really still is 25 fps. Usefull info for everyone else in the future and thanks

[pandy]

Meanwhile manono checked it by downloading it and discovered "Stats for nerds" are wrong and that the video really still is 25 fps. Usefull info for everyone else in the future and thanks

This imply that you didn't downloaded video locally to verify all parameters - perhaps this is not YT but browser limitation - it is recommended to always download video locally then verify if everything is OK - web browsers are definitely not media players.

[kodec]

No I didn't, never thought of that honestly, took everything for granted.

[KarMa]

Probably the only thing with Youtube not being nice to PAL is the fact that they don't seem to support 576p, the height of SD PAL. So when a 576p video is uploaded, it gets downsized to 480p which is SD NTSC.

[kodec]

Yes, and it's terrible, unforgivable. There is a world outside the USA too!

Anyway, I did the capture from scratch (thank you all for the advices, manono & co.), VCR via Vdub then Handbrake (NOT Movie Maker! ) and now my first ever cap to YT is finally published with even "Stats for nerds" showing 25 fps

[pandy]

Yes, and it's terrible, unforgivable. There is a world outside the USA too!

Not true - USA is a center of Universe and motherland of all IT technologies - if there is a world outside of the USA then it blame world itself.
Btw don't be confused - Google hire lot of great developers but most of them have no clue about video standards - look like Google develop own codecs (VP9) there is no specification similar to known for H.264 or H.265 instead of this you have kind of developer manual... Quite hilarious to hear complaints that industry select well defined standard from poorly standardized developer manual.

[Pigeon_]

(Newbie replies to old thread! But it's not that old, and it's the most recent reference to the problem that shows up...)

Anyway... the problem is still occurring. Two examples:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra74u7kKKlQ - every 5th frame is duplicated
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZDTNVtfs6U - every 4th frame is duplicated

Not watched in the browser (eurgh), but downloaded with youtube-dl and watched in mplayer. They are very noticeably juddery, and single-stepping through them confirms that this is caused by duplicated frames.

I quote two examples, but I have a whole directory full of similar cab ride videos downloaded from youtube that have the same problem. It is particularly infuriating with this kind of subject matter since the entire scene changes (slightly) from one frame to the next (ie. it's not just one or two objects moving) and that is the case throughout the entire length of the video (ie. not just occasional panning etc.) So the juddering is continually and obviously visible, and it makes the video a real pain to watch.

Since they're not my videos, I have no control over what I get. It seems the only solution is to recode the video myself with the duplicate frames stripped out. Which of course takes a long time, and the extra decoding/encoding is detrimental to quality.

The same search that found this thread also found a lot of puff about youtube beginning to offer the option of watching videos at 60fps. They need to sort their priorities out. What they ought to be doing first and foremost is making sure they are not breaking the videos for no reason, not faffing about with shiny new features that are in any case largely useless since the originals will nearly always be at conventional frame rates anyway.

[sneaker]

There are countless examples of correct 25fps/50fps videos on Youtube. Since you didn't upload those videos yourself I'd say it's more likely the uploader messed up.

I don't know how you're watching them but some players can fix those problems. madvr can detect and correct such problems AFAIK. Then you can avoid re-encoding.

[davexnet]

You can use something like this avisynth script to return the video to the original 25fps.
But then, as you say, you'll have to re-encode

vid=dss2("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\Cab Ride Bristol to Swindon Class 37264 480p.mp4")
aud=directshowsource("C:\Users\davex\Desktop\Cab Ride Bristol to Swindon Class 37264 480p.mp4",video=no)
vid=vid.converttoyv12()
vid=vid.Tdecimate(Mode=2,rate=25)
audiodub(vid,aud)

[manono]

There are countless examples of correct 25fps/50fps videos on Youtube. Since you didn't upload those videos yourself I'd say it's more likely the uploader messed up.

I agree. This proves nothing. He could write to the uploaders and, if they respond, I'm sure there's an explanation that has nothing to do with YouTube. For example, if you upload an NTSC DVD (VOB files at 29.97fps) with soft telecine (either 23.976->29.97 or 25>29.97), you'll get duplicate frames on YouTube such as in that first video. So, my guess for the first one the guy made an NTSC DVD from his VHS tape source and uploaded that. It's fairly obvious he didn't know what he was doing as it was deinterlaced very poorly. I find all that aliasing much more irritating than the dupe frames.