Good site for selling video with protection.

[kissvid]

Hello all,

I hope someone here can help me. I am a videographer/photographer and my company specializes in dance. We film dance competitions. I am trying to find a site to sell my videos on that will allow my customers to purchase their child's dance routine and download the video. My big problem is that I have found some sites like smugmug and zenfolio that allow me unlimited uploads of my video content but do not offer any protection for my videos, such as a 30 second preview, watermark etc. Now please keep in mind that I will be uploading 400-600 videos a week each about 3 minutes in length. Is there anything out there that will allow me to do what I want but still have the protection I need for my content. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Marc

[october262]

now a days any sort of copy protection can still be broken and the video be copied.

[kissvid]

I should be more clear. When i say protection i mean viewing protection. A site where the person viewing can only see the first minute of the 3 minute video, or a watermark while viewing but not there once purchased or downloaded. I'm not looking for protection after they purchase.

[hech54]

Make watermarked versions for viewing.

[kissvid]

I can't make watermarks. I have 400-600 videos to upload each week. Also..if I do that means the person making the purchase will get the watermark video on the download.

[sum_guy]

Tease them with 1 minute of streaming video then, do it with your website itself, upload the full video to the server with a direct url, after purchase, provide the purchaser with a download link directly to the full video.

[Cornucopia]

If it's only a 3 min. clip, why a 1 min. preview and not just a 30 sec. one? Then it shouldn't be impossible to create your own watermarked previews for all your assets, with a good workflow. Should take ~3-8 hours overall per week.

Sorry, don't know current vid marketing site choices very well...

Scott

[pandy]

Isn't YT offer such feature?

[sum_guy]

I haven't tried this, maybe someone has?

http://www.mindbites.com/sell

[kissvid]

Thank you all. Sum_guy- what you say sounds interesting but I don't havethe knowledge on how to do that. Cornucopia....the idea of make 30 second previews of that many videos for the next 16 weeks doesn't appeal to me. With most sites the video you upload is what they download. So it would defeat the purpose and create more work with less reward. PANDY..what is YT? I would love to look it over. Sum-Guy..I like mindbites a lot but they want 30% of my sales. They are a great site and offers EXACTLY what I am looking for but i don't want to give up 30% of my revenue. I love all the ideas. Any other suggestions? Something like mindbites is what I am looking for.

Marc

[racer-x]

You can use ffmpeg to batch encode and water mark the first 30 sec/1 min of all videos in a folder with very good speed. Upload those for viewing, then when they purchase, you can give a direct link to your server or cloud account for the full video without watermark.

[sophisticles]

Hello all,

I hope someone here can help me. I am a videographer/photographer and my company specializes in dance. We film dance competitions. I am trying to find a site to sell my videos on that will allow my customers to purchase their child's dance routine and download the video. My big problem is that I have found some sites like smugmug and zenfolio that allow me unlimited uploads of my video content but do not offer any protection for my videos, such as a 30 second preview, watermark etc. Now please keep in mind that I will be uploading 400-600 videos a week each about 3 minutes in length. Is there anything out there that will allow me to do what I want but still have the protection I need for my content. Any input would be greatly appreciated.

Marc

There is so much wrong with your question that I can't decide what sickens me most. You video tape other people's kids dancing and then have the nerve to try and sell video of their kids performance to them, but that's not enough, you actually want to claim copyright of the content and enforce copy protection to prevent the parents from viewing the videos without paying you.

If you tried that with my kid I would press charges against you, video taping my kid, then trying to sell said video AND claim ownership of the content so that you can prevent me from seeing the video OF MY KID that you took video of?

By the time I was done you would need a good criminal defense attorney because i would file child endangerment charges against you, exploiting a minor charges, a whole slew of charges and then I would sue you on top of that.

You are treading on very thin ice, I strongly suggest you reconsider your plan, it comes across as very shady at the least and predatory at the most.

[kissvid]

ok..Sophisticales...take 3 steps back before you start with your comments and accusations. Let's get something straight before I decide to press charges to you myself. I own a video/photography company for over 15 years. I specialize in Dance Competitions/Dance recitals. When we do competitions (which is what this is for) my staff and I are there capturing the event for our client. (There is no video or photography allowed at the event by anyone except us.) We have a sales table at the event where parents, teachers and studio owners come and view the videos of all the kids. They then have the option to purchase the videos if they wish. Which they do and we provide the videos on a flash drive. We have been asked over the years to have an online solution from our client as well as parents and owners. Some do not have the time at the event to come to the table and view them or purchase. This allows them to view at home and determine if they want to buy them. I want a 30 sec or 60 sec preview because unfortunately people will play the video and capture it with there phone and I don't make sales. That's all it is.

Now I would like to see a response from you and an apology because you have it all wrong.

[pandy]

TPANDY..what is YT?

YouTube - Google introduced some time ago possibility for YT up-loaders to sell content - i assume some security mechanism to prevent unauthorized access are provided.

[sum_guy]

I suggest you revisit the pricing model, if you're giving out flash drives, granted they are low storage, you could take that fund for flash drives and turn it over to mindbites, or you need to increase your prices for the online version to cover your costs. If you have video of my son/daughter in a closed environment performing, I'm willing to pay. My job is marketing in real life. These moments are basically priceless. Parents won't be turned off by a higher price, or, you could offer online versions and offline versions with a two tiered price model.

[kissvid]

We don't give out the flash drives for free. Parents still pay for the drives as well the routines they purchase. It's a small cost but enough to cover the drive cost and make a little bit of profit. Online costs will be a bit higher of course, it's just that 30% was a bit more than I wanted to give up. We'll see. Most don't mind paying for it. thank you for your positive comments on my business.

[pippas]

....I like mindbites a lot but they want 30% of my sales. They are a great site and offers EXACTLY what I am looking for but i don't want to give up 30% of my revenue........ Something like mindbites is what I am looking for.

Mindbites will have calculated what they think the hassle of setting this kind of thing up is worth..

Bite the bullet, adjust your prices if necessary, and save yourself a bucket full of time and effort trying to do it 'on the cheap'.....

[kissvid]

It's not about operating on the cheap. It's all about numbers. My other sites and operations cost 15% on average. Trying to keep the same in mind here.

[sophisticles]

Now I would like to see a response from you and an apology because you have it all wrong.

Oh, you want an apology? Sure, here goes: I am sorry that you are a sick demented man, what kind of person would even think of a "business" like this? BTW, I strongly suggest you read up on the legal issues that surround what you are doing. In most states you can legally video tape or photograph a person in a public place but not a minor without that minor's legal guardian's permission.

Furthermore, even though you can video tape or photograph an adult in a public place (so long as no reasonable expectation of privacy exists) you can not use that recording for a commercial purpose. You can use it for educational or artistic purposes or for political or social commentary but you can not use it for commercial purposes without a signed release, either for consideration or not.

In other words, if there was a public dance performance of a dance troupe and you recorded it and wanted to use it in an art show entitled "people dancing", that would be fine. If you wanted to use it in a news cast for "look what took place in the park today", you could do that. YOU CAN NOT USE IT TO MAKE DVD's THAT YOU WISH TO SELL AND ENFORCE A COPYRIGHT CLAIM AGAINST.

Think about what you are doing, you want to claim copyright of a minor's likeness and enforce said copyright in order to make money from said likeness without permission or compensation to the minor or his/her legal guardian.

That is a one way ticket to the county jail and or a civil lawsuit.

What you are doing is flat out unethical and illegal and the fact that you seem to think that you are entitled to a an apology because I informed you of such is very concerning.

Remember my words when some kid's parents calls the cops on you or you get sued.

You have been warned.

[koberulz]

If you think any of the participants in the competition haven't agreed to whatever needs to be agreed to in order for the official videographer's work to be legal, you really don't have a clue.

And copyright of a work belongs to the creator of the work. The videos are created by the videographer.

If you're going to lecture people on the law, it helps to actually know the law.

[sophisticles]

Just so everyone understands a bit clearer the issues surrounding what he is doing, imagine if you hired me to video tape your wedding or take pictures of your kid for graduation. You received the pictures or tape and then I tried to block you from sharing said pictures or tape with your friends and loved ones. You would hit the ceiling.

But what this guy is doing is even worse, imagine if you go for a walk with your kid in the park and he has a camera set up and records you playing catch with your kid. Now imagine if he comes up to you and says "Hi, I just recorded you playing with your kid, would you like to BUY a copy of the film AND by the way, I own the rights to the film and will try to enforce a copyright claim to the content that prevents you from sharing it with anyone or seeing more than a minute of it unless you pay me."

Now, how long would it take you before you arranged it so that the next picture he took with that camera was of the inside of his colon?

Seriously, if some guy did that to me I would knock his teeth out, no joke.

This guy's post has seriously pissed me off almost as much as the thought that he "demanded" an apology.

[sophisticles]

If you think any of the participants in the competition haven't agreed to whatever needs to be agreed to in order for the official videographer's work to be legal, you really don't have a clue.

And copyright of a work belongs to the creator of the work. The videos are created by the videographer.

If you're going to lecture people on the law, it helps to actually know the law.

I really doubt that this guy has signed releases from every guardian in that place and more importantly a videographer's or photographer's work is considered a "work for hire", meaning he/she has no legal claim to any rights to said work.

You seriously believe that a wedding photographer has the rights to the pictures of your wedding? If a photographer tried to claim rights to pictures of my wedding he would end up with the rights of a lead pipe over the head.

And with minors it's a whole other ballgame, look up "exploiting a minor" laws in various states, you are as crazy as he is if you think what he's doing is legal.

[koberulz]

I really doubt that this guy has signed releases from every guardian in that place

I coach junior basketball. Part of the terms and conditions for entry and participation in games and tournaments is an acknowledgement that you and/or your child may be photographed, and those photographs are the property of the basketball competition. The same would be true here.

and more importantly a videographer's or photographer's work is considered a "work for hire", meaning he/she has no legal claim to any rights to said work.

That's not necessarily true, it depends on the agreement between the artist and the client, but in any event the client in this situation is the organisation putting on the dance competitions, not the children participating therein.

I would suggest that the guy actually involved in this situation knows more about the particulars than you do.

[kissvid]

ok..This has gotten way out of hand. Sophisticles I don't know where you got the impression of me that you did from my one post but please understand you have me and my business all wrong. You Said...

"Just so everyone understands a bit clearer the issues surrounding what he is doing, imagine if you hired me to video tape your wedding or take pictures of your kid for graduation. You received the pictures or tape and then I tried to block you from sharing said pictures or tape with your friends and loved ones. You would hit the ceiling."

I do nothing of the sort. When someone purchases photos or videos that my company takes, they are not blocked, copy guarded or anything. They are given a copyright release and own everything that comes with the video and photos. They can share, make copies do whatever they wish. In this post, the protection I am looking for is just to protect the content online. The same way a photographer has a watermark on photos to be viewed I am looking for protection of my videos when viewing online. Some sites offer a 1 minute preview and some offer a watermark. That's it. When you purchase the video is yours unguarded, free to post, share etc. There's nothing more to it. Then you said....

"But what this guy is doing is even worse, imagine if you go for a walk with your kid in the park and he has a camera set up and records you playing catch with your kid. Now imagine if he comes up to you and says "Hi, I just recorded you playing with your kid, would you like to BUY a copy of the film AND by the way, I own the rights to the film and will try to enforce a copyright claim to the content that prevents you from sharing it with anyone or seeing more than a minute of it unless you pay me."

I don't know where that came into your mind but I don't just film people in parks or walk into events and start filming and then give out business cards to parents. These events are so guarded that you are not able to do that. I am contracted by the event company that holds the event to provide the video and photo service for the event. So that the people you are describing can't just walk in and film. The events are held in private venues like theaters and high schools. We travel to over 20 cities a year. Trust me hundreds of parents are there watching every move and they all come to our sales table to view the videos and photos. I don't understand where you got your assumptions. Please let me know in my post where I said that and I will be sure to change the wording.

Now you said.....

Oh, you want an apology? Sure, here goes: I am sorry that you are a sick demented man, what kind of person would even think of a "business" like this? BTW, I strongly suggest you read up on the legal issues that surround what you are doing. In most states you can legally video tape or photograph a person in a public place but not a minor without that minor's legal guardian's permission.

Furthermore, even though you can video tape or photograph an adult in a public place (so long as no reasonable expectation of privacy exists) you can not use that recording for a commercial purpose. You can use it for educational or artistic purposes or for political or social commentary but you can not use it for commercial purposes without a signed release, either for consideration or not.

In other words, if there was a public dance performance of a dance troupe and you recorded it and wanted to use it in an art show entitled "people dancing", that would be fine. If you wanted to use it in a news cast for "look what took place in the park today", you could do that. YOU CAN NOT USE IT TO MAKE DVD's THAT YOU WISH TO SELL AND ENFORCE A COPYRIGHT CLAIM AGAINST.

Think about what you are doing, you want to claim copyright of a minor's likeness and enforce said copyright in order to make money from said likeness without permission or compensation to the minor or his/her legal guardian.

That is a one way ticket to the county jail and or a civil lawsuit.
What you are doing is flat out unethical and illegal and the fact that you seem to think that you are entitled to a an apology because I informed you of such is very concerning. Remember my words when some kid's parents calls the cops on you or you get sued.
You have been warned.

Mr Sophisticles....trust me I am not the person you describe above. I don't know where the assumptions came from but I can assure you I am not who you are trying to describe. Trust me if I ever met someone like that I would do what you said and then some. Being a parent myself i share in your frustration that we live in a society that unfortunately people like this exist but I assure you that is not me. However...to attack a person by misunderstanding what was written is uncalled for. If what you said was clear to all, I am sure that you would have company in your threats. I sincerely apologize to anyone including you if you misunderstood my post but I will not take being criticized for something you thought you read or took for something else. I'm sorry sir but that's just not right.. it's just not.

You said........Now, how long would it take you before you arranged it so that the next picture he took with that camera was of the inside of his colon?
Seriously, if some guy did that to me I would knock his teeth out, no joke.
This guy's post has seriously pissed me off almost as much as the thought that he "demanded" an apology.

What you said above is not right either.

[El Heggunte]

Just my 2 cents......

the copyright laws are an insane thing.

But many /¿most? people don't care about that "irrelevant detail",
as long as they can benefit from that insanity.

[sophisticles]

I do nothing of the sort. When someone purchases photos or videos that my company takes, they are not blocked, copy guarded or anything. They are given a copyright release and own everything that comes with the video and photos. They can share, make copies do whatever they wish. In this post, the protection I am looking for is just to protect the content online. The same way a photographer has a watermark on photos to be viewed I am looking for protection of my videos when viewing online. Some sites offer a 1 minute preview and some offer a watermark. That's it. When you purchase the video is yours unguarded, free to post, share etc. There's nothing more to it.

You just proved what a lying sack you are, you say:

When someone purchases photos or videos that my company takes, they are not blocked, copy guarded or anything. They are given a copyright release and own everything that comes with the video and photos. They can share, make copies do whatever they wish.

So you are saying flat out that you have no copyright claim to the videos or photo, and that they are not blocked or copy protected with DRM or anything of the sort. That's all fine and dandy.

Then 2 sentences later you say:

I am looking for protection of my videos when viewing online

But earlier you said that you claimed no rights to the content, that the people that purchase the videos and photos own all the rights yet now you wish to find a way to protect videos that by your own admission don't own the rights to. In fact, your paragraph ends with this statement:

When you purchase the video is yours unguarded, free to post, share etc.

Can you seriously not see why this comes off as extremely shady on your part?

You admit that you don't own the rights to the content, which means that the videos should not be on your website in the first place. Then you say that you wish to exert copy protection on "your" videos when in fact you already said that you don't own them.

At the least you are a really shady character but the entire premise that you would video tape other people's kids and then try and sell their parents video and pictures of a public performance in which their kids were a part and then you would try and block access to content that you simultaneously admit you don't own the rights to is just flat out disgusting.

You are really very lucky you never tried to pull that crap at my kid's school and you're very lucky no parent has ever really stopped to think what you are doing.

People like you make me sick.

[pippas]

It's not about operating on the cheap. It's all about numbers. My other sites and operations cost 15% on average. Trying to keep the same in mind here.

I can understand your commercial need to maintain margins.... I also think that the folk who set up sites like 'mindbites' are likely to have done their homework.....

If you don't want to set up a completely new secure online distribution network yourself.. with the obvious costs, expertise and time involved in that process, then I think you may need to look again at their business model.

If you are serious about this - from a business point of view - then having to cope with things like the selection of slightly odd vitriolic posts on a thread in an amateur 'video help' type forum is probably not a very professional way of trying to solve your problem.

You might try and Google 'mindbites alternatives' to find professional alternatives, with lower charges?....

[kissvid]

Thank you for your comments. Mindbites is a solution that I had in mind from the beginning after doing extensive research. I have been with this forum for over 10 years and I have met and chatted with some very intellectual people over the years. The advice, tools and methods I have received from this forum through the years have proved invaluable. The internet is large and vast. Someone might have seen as it where others may not have. thank you again for your thoughts and comments.