Video quality problems post edit.

[Madsquid994]

Hello

I have recently been using a video editing program called videopad and I am having some problems with video quality.

The video is fine when I import it into videopad, and after I finish editing it and I watch the preview its still very high quality, very clear and smooth video. The problem is when I then need to save the end result as a video file and when I do this the quality of the resultant file is significantly reduced (and also the colour is all weird), even when I save the video with exactly the same settings (file type, frames per sec, etc) as the original video file that I imported into the editor.

So basically I just want to be able to save my edited videos and retain the quality that I had before

thanks to anyone who can help with this issue.

[smrpix]

...I save the video with exactly the same settings (file type, frames per sec, etc) as the original video file that I imported into the editor.

Since you haven't mentioned bitrate, codec or dimensions you should probably make sure you're matching those as well. That said, any re-encoding will lose some quality.

[budwzr]

Something else must be wrong then.

Rule #1: Stay in the same codec when editing and re-encoding.

Rule #2: When changing codecs, decompress to full frames, then re-encode to something else.

What I mean by "Full Frames" is uncompressed. I mostly work in PNG Stills, but my works are short usually. And I have a fast computer.

[Madsquid994]

Yep, the codec and dimensions were kept the same, in fact its now telling me to resize it or crop it for some reason.
Also there is no option for setting bitrate when I’m saving for some reason.

[smrpix]

Videopad has a number of decent output options, but we're still flying blind here. What are you actually doing -- details -- framerate, codec, dimensions of your source? What are your output settings? Codec, container, etc?

[sum_guy]

Videopad has bitrate options when you export the video. It's literally a button clearly labeled "Encoder Options"

[Cornucopia]

And your settings were...?

Scott

[budwzr]

Does VideoPad require a payment? If so, that might be the reason for the downgrade in output.

Or perhaps it doesn't support your codec.

[Madsquid994]

Oh crap, bitrate settings are under encoder options, hadn’t seen that lol.

Please try to be patient guys I'm a bit new to video editing, i'm doing my best.

Anyway, even if I put the bitrate settings all the way up i'm still losing video Quality

and for those who wanted to know, my original recordings were 720p, with a frame rate as close to 60fps as my capture device could manage. The dimensions look like 640x480 (the thing doesn’t bloody tell me) but whenever I try to save it from videopad with those dimensions it tells me to resize it or crop it (even though if I turn the original video into an mp4 file the dimensions are always 640x480). Videopad doesn’t have a problem with 1280x720, but that is simply too big.

Also I have been trying to save these as mp4 files, I simply don’t know if that’s a good choice or not.

Also, its given me two different compressor options, H264, and MPEG4, not sure which of these I should use, but I have tried both of them and in each instance It still comes out blurrier than the original.
I have even tried uploading directly from videopad to you tube, that hasn’t worked either.

In answer specifically to budwzr, videopad if free so long as you are using it for non commercial reasons.

I will record some more footage tomorrow, then I can find out for certain what the original dimensions are.

The best picture quality I have been able to preserve so far from videopad was using the following settings:

file format: mp4

resolution: 1280x720 (720p)

maximum frame rate: 60.00

compressor: H264

(I put the quality slider to the highest setting)

average bitrate: 320

in spite of this, the video in the file still has significantly lower quality, plus the colour is all messed up, and when I checked the file properties I found that the frame rate was only 25fps, and the bitrate was 149kbps

apologies for the length of the reply

[smrpix]

(I put the quality slider to the highest setting)

average bitrate: 320

The quality slider should be at the lowest number, correct? (That's somewhat counter-intuitive.) 320 refers to the audio bitrate.

How are you acquiring your footage? It isn't variable frame rate game captures, is it?

[budwzr]

Don't worry, somebody will come along here and split this chicken.

[Madsquid994]

Yes, the highest number is the lowest quality setting (it has low quality written next to it), and vice versa.

If the 320 is audio (and I don’t have a problem with the audio, that’s fine) then that means I only have bitrate settings for the video when I set the compressor to MPEG4, I set both the average and maximum bitrate to the highest available setting, which is 4096

As for how my footage is acquired, I am using the Elgato game capture HD, I don't know what you mean by “variable frame rate” but it has a “preserve source format” which means that the device will try to match the frame rate of the original video, just in case that's relevant.

Also I recorded some more footage today, I am recording at 1280x720
I also noticed that I had two other settings on (that I hadn’t noticed before), these were:

convert standard definition to 640x480

stretch standard definition input

not sure precisely how having these things on will affect my video. I am also downloading another video editor (sony vegas), I can always get rid of any software I don’t ultimately need.

My ultimate goal is to get my recordings from the Elgato software, to you tube, loosing as little quality as possible.

[smrpix]

Y
I also noticed that I had two other settings on (that I hadn’t noticed before), these were:

convert standard definition to 640x480

stretch standard definition input

not sure precisely how having these things on will affect my video. I am also downloading another video editor (sony vegas)

You should do some experimenting on a short segment with the settings on and off -- it is the best way to learn. Until you get your head around these settings and understand what they mean and how they work, you are only giving yourself the opportunity to make the exact same mistakes in better software.

[Madsquid994]

Yeah, ill have to do it on a cut scene (in game) or something so that I am recording exactly the same thing each time.

Ill post back here when i'm done.

[Madsquid994]

Hmm, well, “convert standard definition to 640x480” ruined the quality outright, and “stretch standard definition input” just reduced the width of the screen. I think ill keep those things the same.

[budwzr]

Like mentioned by smrpix, you need a better understanding of the fundamentals.

Hopefully, Sony Vegas Studio will enlighten you. The Sony products are more straightforward with the terminology and methods.

Every software uses different terminology to get you hooked on their products. If all else fails buy the Filmmakers Handbook and learn the real terminology and methods.

[Cornucopia]

First, FRAMERATE:
If your games' gameplay is variable framerate, then setting ElGato's recording to "same as source" will also make it variable framerate (assuming EG can do that).

VFR might be a good thing for gameplay, but it is a TERRIBLE, I repeat: TERRIBLE thing for editing.

Either change ElGato to a fixed (aka Constant) framerate that makes sense (e.g. 24FPS, 25FPS, 29.97FPS, 30FPS, 50FPS, 59.94FPS, 60FPS as appropriate), or force the game(s) to output gameplay at a rigid constant framerate (if you can) and then you can use "same as source" in ElGato.

Next, RESOLUTION:
ElGato doesn't give you a choice in the matter of SD, if you record 480p or 480i, it MUST record 720x480 (non-square pixels, either 4:3 or 16:9), not 640x480 (square pixels at 4:3), or ~852x480 (square pxiels at 16:9) - even though on screen they will look the same. If you expect to record SD, the idea is to either convert to Square Pixels first and retain that throughout, or retain non-square pixels until just before the very end when they are changed to square (for Youtube), or retain non-square pixels throughout and let Youtube do the conversion to Square Pixels when it does it's thing (not as recommended if YT scaling algorithm isn't as good). Experiment to see which works best for you (me, I prefer the 2nd workflow as long as the intermediate apps & codecs support non-square pixels). DO NOT scale more than the one time that is necessary.

Honestly, though, I recommend you leave everything as HD, not SD. It's 16:9 and square pixels from the get-go. Which brings me to the next point...

Next, CONVERSION STAGES:
Similar to the 2nd law of thermodynamics, there is a rule in information theory that basically states, "unless acted upon externally (creative work), every interaction/change in/to the system increases the entropy/randomness" (which in terms of lossy compression means lower quality).
IOW, You start with being on the peak of the quality mountaintop and it's ALL downhill from there any time you MOVE (change). So MOVE (change) as little as possible. This means, if your source is uncompressed (gameplay screen out), you want to convert as few times as possible and remain lossless as long as possible. Since you ARE using an ElGato recording device, which does a lossy conversion to AVC-in-MP4, you've already got 1 strike (and it's not great bitrate either - 10Mbps at 720p60 is meh compared even to the ~25Mbps usually found in consumer/prosumer camera recordings). Encoding done within Youtube itself is another strike. Try to avoid any more strikes...

Assuming you stick with the ElGato, you NEED to have a workflow which retains the best that the ElGato is capable of. That means a smart-rendering app (one which does NOT reconvert on export, except in transitioned/overlaid/modified sections). And where it DOES re-encode (to the same format as input), it needs to be as high a bitrate as possible.

My recommendation:
Barring getting a new recording device that preserves more quality (such as a Atomos Ninja, etc.), your best bet is to record HD (either 1080i or 720p). Assuming high FPS in gameplay is important (when is it ever NOT?), you don't want to use the 1080p setting in this ElGato device, because it doesn't support 1080p60 recording (what it does is allow incoming/passthrough 1080p60, but actually only records 1080p30).
1080i might be higher rez, but because of being interlaced, you'll have a stage where you'll want to deinterlace convert (you sure as heck don't want to rely on Youtube doing it). A conversion stage will mean re-compression, which might mean loss.
Simpler to your workflow would be to use the 720p60 capture recordings. Don't even downrez, just upload 720p to YT and let it provide downrezzed copies (it does this automatically, and it does a decent job of it).
You'll need a larger HDD to accommodate the HD-sized files, but it'll be worth it in the long run and has other benefits.
Also, you need to get a better editor app than "videopad". Cyberlink PowerDirector or Vegas Movie Studio would be my recommendations for newbie hobbyists.
Yes, that means some money outlay. If you stick with ElGato GameCaptureHD and you stick with SD capturing and you stick with VideoPad, you're probably stuck with so-so quality...

Scott

[Madsquid994]

Sony vegas might enlighten me if I could open the damn software