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Hello all, it's been quite a while since I've posted here. I had basically stopped doing any video stuff besides home movies for a long time. Now I have a friend who has asked me to shoot a promo video for his band. They are a 4 piece contemporary outfit consisting of guitar/vocals, guitar, bass, and drums.
The cameras I have at my disposal right now are 1 Sony A77 DSLR I plan on using as the main, 1 GoPro Hero3+ Black for instrument shots, and 3 Canon HV40's. I may or may not use the canons for extra footage. I have them so they'll just be there by default.
The setting for the clip will be in a church being built right now. At the moment it's mostly just a slab and frame. Obviously elements and dealing with lighting will be of concern. We may shoot only at night for this reason. The band has a recorded track to mime to so we'll be able to have the same audio for every take. We'll have lighting to use so that won't be a huge concern.
My main concern is the logistics of what to shoot and how to match it together. I've recorded live events with multiple cameras and synced video and audio together so I'm not really concerned with my ability to sync tracks together. My big concern is getting the different shots and matching them up so it's not obvious they were recorded in separate takes. I'd like to use the GoPro on each instrument separately and on the mic in front of the singer also. I'll have to figure out how to cut between shots without the GoPro showing up.
What I'm thinking now is that whatever take the when the GoPro is on a particular instrument I won't record that with the main camera, i.e. if it's on the drums I'll only record the other 3 members. This should give me plenty of other material to cut to where it won't be there. I will also have them stay in one spot so the body movement between shots won't be extreme. I figure I can have them run though the whole track for all these shots and if they make a small mistake here and there I will have plenty of other shots to cut to.
The audio will be played back over a small PA system and I can sync it up manually.
I've already let them know that this is my first time trying this particular type of shoot and they are more than willing to work with me. I've been clear on what I can and can't do and they are excited to try something new.
So can any of you who might have done this kind of thing before give me some sage wisdom on the topic.
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You did not say anything about the electrical source that will be required for your lighting, as well as your audio playback system for the lip-sync. Construction sites typically have no easy access to electricity. Are you bringing in generators?Originally Posted by stantheman1976
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The new construction is directly next to their current building. We'll be able to run power from there.
Playback will be a small PA system they bring. I'll have to sync manually in post to the track using the cam audio as a guide. It's not the most efficient method probably but I've done the same before syncing up a live performance to a separate audio source so it's something I can do easily. -
The basic editing method is to stack all your visuals against the audio guide track. With multiple cameras running simultaneously this can get pretty deep pretty quickly, so you may want to find some logical organizing principle to winnow it down systematically.
One option might be to create a multicamera edit of each run through individually to find the good stuff, then combine them.
There's no right or wrong way -- but the early stages are often tedious. If you're having too much fun when you start, you will probably get lost by the end. -
Make sure you have mics on all your video recording sources. Even though you won't end up using the on-set ambient audio, you will need it with to synchronize each of your video sources to their proper points on the music track.
As for continuity and matching camera shots, extreme close-ups on musical instruments provide good cutaways. (If nothing else, a shot of a bass drum pedal being stomped on can get you from point A to point C easily.) Iso shots of each performer also provide a cutaways from a wide master shot.
Your main concern may be with the gamma and color timing shifts between different models of cameras. If your DSLR puts out a vastly superior picture, use it almost exclusively, taking the time to get separate takes of EVERYTHING. It takes much longer to shoot that way, but your footage will match. If production time is a concern, go with the 3 HV40s, getting more footage in fewer takes. As long as the GoPros are tight on extreme close-ups, their footage can be thrown in. Just make sure all devices are set to the same frame rate and white balanced before shooting.
There is a stylistic exception to the above paragraph. A lot of music videos have stark cuts of the bands between all types of footage--both good and crappy--on purpose. Some will even shift between color and black and white. It's a music video. There are very few rules. It's actually kind of hard to screw it up. -
The on camera audio is how I'll sync the audio. There may be a more efficient method but I know for a fact I can do it that way and make it right.
I will probably sync the beginning of the different takes when I have 2 or more cameras going with a camera flash. At 30fps that always works well for me.
Time in post isn't a big concern. I'm more worried about getting the best shots I can.
Frame rate will be 30fps on all. The Canons shoot at 1440x1080. The GoPro can do that also so they should match up without issue.
To make it as easy on myself as I can I figure each take will be a complete run through of the song from start to finish. I'll have 1-2 takes with the GoPro on each instrument and whatever it isn't on I'll record with tight shots with the main camera, such as GP on the drums and record only tight shots of the other members. I'll try to be aware constantly of what is in the shot to keep continuity as much as I can.
Color difference will be an obvious concern. I always do manual white balance except on the GoPro obviously. Just because I have the 3 Canons doesn't mean I'll use all 3 at one time. I'll probably set them all up the same and use 1 at a time. To keep style continuity I may not even use the Sony. I like the way the Canons look so I may just stick with them.
The song is called Black Out The Sun so they've mentioned fading to black and white during the chorus. I'll use some effects in different places also on purpose. I'm going to try to have fun creating it. I'm just facing the challenge that everyone in the situation faces of transferring a vision I have in head to the screen. Like I said, they are excited to try something new and are more than willing to work with me so fortunately there won't be any drama regarding that. They have asked if I could do a few specific things and I've given an honest yes or no and that's what they want most. -
You can do manual WB on GoPros as well.
The Canon HV40's HDV shoot 1440x1080 at a 4:3 PAR which is equivalent to 1920x1080 at 1:1 PAR. Both are 16:9 full frame.
The Canons also shoot INTERLACED, not progressive. The sony uses AVCHD 2.0 format and can do either interlaced or progressive 1080. The Gopro can only do progressive, but can do either p30 or p60. You need a common framerate for editing: 60p makes the most sense to me. The sony & the gopro can do that natively, and the canons can be upconverted.
They ought to be anyway to get all of the footage to a common editable intermediate format (Cineform, ProRes, DNxHD, HuffYUV, Lagarith, etc). You can kill 2 birds with one stone by resizing (1440->1920) and raising framerate (60i->60p) during the conversion.
Use SLATES, Timecode readouts & ChipCharts for every take of every camera. Often the timestamp on those cams don't faithfully remain throughout the workflow, particularly if you need to convert, so you'll want something ON CAMERA that one can match things to should data go missing.
It sounds like you've already committed to full manual syncing, but you might want to reconsider using dslrsync, timecodebuddy, and/or pluraleyes. It would save you (or your assistant editor) TONS of time. I mentioned this on a previous thread this summer.
Scott -
The HV40 shoots 60i but does all scans at once to produce a progressive frame in 30p mode, correct? I'm using Sony Vegas to edit so it will handle the footage as true 30p. I've used this setting on other live shoots I've done and like the look it gives. Throwing in the true 30p of the GoPro should mix fine as far as I know. I'm also going to shoot a short acoustic set with this band before the video shoot so I'll get to experiment and play a little bit.
I'm not against using a tool to sync but I don't have Pluraleyes right now and I don't know if I will be doing anything else after this coming project to justify spending that money. The equipment I'm using is stuff that me or my wife already have so it's not costing anything extra. I've had the Canons for quite a while and she does portrait photography.
I will definitely use some visual cue at the beginning of each take. I'm also going to add an audio cue to the beginning of the playback track. -
How about a slate? Not only an ideal audio/visual reference, it can also have useful information about takes.Originally Posted by stantheman1976
Traditionally, this is 4 beeps ahead of music in time with the actual song.Originally Posted by stantheman1976
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I'm thinking I'll use a slate with which take and what camera I'm using and what it's recording. I'll try to have as much info to reference later every time I press record.
The audio cue you're talking about is what I was thinking. That way whether I use a tool to sync or do it manually I'll have that clear reference to use. Fo stuff I've done before I've also used a camera flash from myself or from photos being take during the event. That always works well for me getting the video tracks matched. -
HV40 has these modes of shooting:Originally Posted by stantheman1976
1. HDV 60i (aka 30i) - default
2. HDV 30p as PsF, what you alluded to.
3. HDV 24p as PsF
4. HDV 24p as True 24p frames only
5. DV (60i)
If you go the 30p route, you lose temporal resolution, but that's your call.
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If you already have a Smartphone, for $7.50USD you can get a (nearly) full-featured LTC Timecode generator which you can then get a couple of Y adpaters & 3.5mm audio cables and distribute TC to ALL your devices' audio ports (gopro req. usb->audio breakout cable, though) during recording. Add in the FREE DSLRsync and you won't need pluraleyes. Little cost, huge return on investment.
Scott -
[/QUOTE]HV40 has these modes of shooting:
1. HDV 60i (aka 30i) - default
2. HDV 30p as PsF, what you alluded to.
3. HDV 24p as PsF
4. HDV 24p as True 24p frames only
5. DV (60i)
If you go the 30p route, you lose temporal resolution, but that's your call.
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If you already have a Smartphone, for $7.50USD you can get a (nearly) full-featured LTC Timecode generator which you can then get a couple of Y adpaters & 3.5mm audio cables and distribute TC to ALL your devices' audio ports (gopro req. usb->audio breakout cable, though) during recording. Add in the FREE DSLRsync and you won't need pluraleyes. Little cost, huge return on investment.
Scott[/QUOTE]
2. HDV 30p as PsF, what you alluded to.
This is what I have used in the past. 30fps means that I don't have any compatibility issues and I like the way the video from the Canons look in this mode. Throw in some filters and I always had something decent at the end.
What is that time code app? Does it start the time code and then I can unplug the cables or do they have to stay plugged in? If that's the case that would mean a cable running to the GoPro while it's attached to an instrument. That may not be the most convenient way to go.
I may get Pluraleyes. My wife is a teacher and has a broadcasting class so I'm sure we'd qualify for the academic discount. If I will use it in the future I don't mind going that route. -
You can also point the camera at the timecode clock to establish a sync point. If you are editing with Premiere Pro you no longer need Pluraleyes as an identical function is now built in.
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As most electric instruments ALREADY have a cable attached to them, stringing a 2nd cable shouldn't be a dealbreaker. But, yes, you would want to keep it tethered the whole time, otherwise you don't have continuous timecode (which gives you the most benefit).
Scott
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