Newest system means new software, right?

[Jeikobu]

Ok, so I am outdated. I have a PPC G4 running OS X 10.4 (please, no criticisms). Well, lately I've been thinking it would be nice, if possible, to get an Intel Mac. The problem of course is money; I'm currently unemployed, and am trying to be frugal with what money I do have.

Still, if I could get an Intel Mac for a decent enough price, I could sell the Mac I have now (yeah, I wouldn't get much for it I'm sure, but hey, every little bit helps). I've been looking at those "Mac Minis" since they are Intel but come cheaper than the newer 00ber expensive large Macs.

On that note, I'd like to know if anyone recommends them. Yeah, I'm sure they don't beat the more expensive stuff, but are they worth investing in? I mostly like to use Photoshop, Microsoft, watch MKVs and other video, surf the web, and play an internet game (its lagging on my computer is part of my motivation to upgrade to Intel). I heard the Mac Minis can't spread out memory as well, but I'm not sure. Thoughts?

And finally, I have the question relating to this thread's title: obviously, the newer Macs use the newer systems, right? For example, I was at Micro Center the other day, and I saw a Mac Mini that comes with OS X 10.8. The problem is, apparently upgrading to such a new system means my old programs, most notably Microsoft Office (Word at least is version 11.6.6 from 2004) and Adobe Photoshop CS (Version 8.0. Looks like it came out in 2003) won't run on it. So, I'd need to buy the new versions, and they are really, really expensive, and all together it would just all be too much to spend right now, I think. So, is there either 1) a way to have the old programs run on the new system, or 2) a cheap, legal way to get the newer versions of the programs?

Thanks for your time.

[Jeikobu]

Something else I thought to add:

- I need a fair deal of hard drive space (maybe 175 GB total?). Would a Mac Mini be able to accommodate that?
- I have a couple of additional drives in my desktop computer. Would a Mac Mini be able to fit additional drives?
- Can a Mac Mini have a DVD (or potentially a Blu-Ray) port?

[Cornucopia]

Trying to answer one question at a time:

1. The benefit of a Mac Mini is that fact that it's MINI. That makes it not very "expandable". About the only thing you can expand on it is USB peripherals.

2. Ever thought about getting a used but better Mac via ebay or Craigslist? My daughter got a Macbook Air (really good one) for $600USD last summer via craigslist. I went with her to physically check it out and put it through its paces prior to her buying it. Brand new, it easily would have cost over twice that much.

3. Don't even know where you're going with "spread out memory". The minis & the laptops don't really have easily expandable memory (IIRC), so you're stuck with what's stock for that model - so get the model with the most memory. AFA "spreading out", if you mean good memory management, that has to do with the OS, and ALL MacOs versions are fine with memory management (unless there was a "leaky driver").

4. OS compatibility with software all depends on what API calls a software makes. The more invasive a software makes use of the OS's APIs, the more tied to the OS version a software must be. So a little app that is self contained that does something like a date calculation or something might not need to be updated for MANY version upgrades (unless it relies on certain UI calls), but an app that taps into all the various hardware (like multimedia apps do) or makes vigorous use of the features of the UI (like Office apps or browsers often do) will need to be upgraded almost with every OS upgrade (you'd be lucky if you got to skip one). So, NO. You would have to buy new versions.

5. The only way to have older apps work on much newer systems is via dual-booting, emulators or virtual machines. Dual booting 2 MacOses is probably out of the question, so it's a matter of emulators (and I know of NO good MacOS emutors, whether payware or not) or Virtual Machines. Problem with them is they bog down the system (both the host system and the VM system). That would mean you'd need EVEN MORE speed & memory.

6. No cheap, legal way to get those apps, unless the app provider offers an upgrade discount or sale or something.

7. Don't remember what's stock on the various Mac Mini models (you could look it up...), but I'd STRONGLY suggest you get a brand new external (USB2 + USB3 + Thunderbolt, or similar) drive. Same with DVD/BD. As per #1 above, you can add on externally, but that's it.

Scott

[Ai Haibara]

Also, I should note that the last Intel-capable version of OS X that supported Rosetta (allowing you to run PowerPC programs under the Intel versions of OS X) is Snow Leopard (10.6.X; latest version is 10.6.8). It's true that it's not the absolute latest version of OS X, and there are a fair number of programs out there specifically built for Lion/Mountain Lion. However, Snow Leopard is probably comparable to Windows XP, at this time - it's still perfectly viable, more or less. My own Mini runs Snow Leopard, and I don't plan on changing that anytime soon.

So, if you're intent upon continuing to run all of those older PPC programs, AND can find a decent Snow Leopard system, it might not hurt to try that. Keep in mind, though, that it's very, very hard if not impossible to take a Lion or Mountain Lion system and install Snow Leopard on them (or Rosetta, probably).

Edit: My Mini came with a 320GB HD, and it's one of the lower-end Mini models. You can only add external hard drives, unless you want to have Apple replace the internal hard drive with something larger. Same for optical drives - you can add those, but through USB. I believe most Minis use the Superdrive, which is a DVD/CD drive (read and write). Superdrives are usually riplocked, though.

Scott: Well, you can change the RAM, too.

[Case]

I've been looking at those "Mac Minis" since they are Intel but come cheaper than the newer 00ber expensive large Macs.

They are cheaper than its “siblings” because they are stripped from a lot of features. 7.7 x 7.7 x 1.4 inch can only hold so much. The basic package is without keyboard or monitor.

I mostly like to use Photoshop, Microsoft, watch MKVs and other video, surf the web, and play an internet game.

The graphics and video in the Mini come from an Intel HD Graphics 4000 chip, which is low end compared to current nVIDIA and ATI cards in other models, but pretty decent for on-board graphics.

I heard the Mac Minis can't spread out memory as well, but I'm not sure.

Not sure what you mean by “spread out”, but this model has two memory banks, for 2x 2 GB, 2x 4 GB, or 2x 8 GB DDR3 SDRAM. Pairing identical size memory banks boosts performance significantly here.

the newer Macs use the newer systems, right?

I think it has always been that Mac OS can't be downgraded below the version that was current when the model Mac was introduced.

The problem is, apparently upgrading to such a new system means my old programs, most notably Microsoft Office (Word at least is version 11.6.6 from 2004) and Adobe Photoshop CS (Version 8.0. Looks like it came out in 2003) won't run on it. So, I'd need to buy the new versions [...]. So, is there either 1) a way to have the old programs run on the new system, or 2) a cheap, legal way to get the newer versions of the programs?

The new versions of Mac OS (10.7 Lion, 10.8 Mountain Lion) won't run PPC code anymore, thus old non-Intel programs need to be replaced. You could have a look at alternatives or buy second hand, I guess.

I need a fair deal of hard drive space (maybe 175 GB total?). Would a Mac Mini be able to accommodate that?

A new Mac mini comes with a 500 GB drive.

I have a couple of additional drives in my desktop computer. Would a Mac Mini be able to fit additional drives?

Only external (USB and FireWire). It is possible to put an internal drive in an enclosure for use as external drive.

Can a Mac Mini have a DVD (or potentially a Blu-Ray) port?

External optical drive is possible. Apple can supply a USB SuperDrive (CD/DVD) for an additional $79.

[rumplestiltskin]

I am using a 2012 Mac mini (the latest 2.6GHz Core i7 model) with 16GB of RAM. It's almost as fast as the 2011 3.4GHz Core i7 iMac (I owned that prior to this mini). However, the HD4000 video chip isn't as beefy as the video card in that iMac. Regardless, I am quite happy with the mini and regularly use it with MP4Tools, Submerge, Lightroom and even Final Cut Pro. Everything I throw at it gets done. I have no problems with it. Would I like to have had 4 RAM slots? Sure but 16GB seems to work fine. I have USB3 devices and some old FireWire drives. I also use a TBolt to eSata box (as well as USB3 to eSata converters. I have a full-size USB2 burner (5.25") and that works perfectly. No complaints.

[Jeikobu]

Ok, so I think I understand the idea of most of what you guys are saying. I'm not highly educated on computer tech and terms, so if it's not worded in a fairly layman's manner, it doesn't make much sense to me (guess I should have thought to say that earlier).

What does RAM do? Is that related to memory?

When I said "spread out" memory, I meant "expand".

What do graphic and video chips do?

Are there any SuperDrives that support ripping Blu-Rays and DVDs as well as reading and writing?

I don't need a computer to do heavy-handed stuff, I think. Like I said, I just want to be able to play my online game smoothly, watch video files, operate Photoshop, and do other basic computer stuff, and for it to run smoothly.

I actually noticed this Mac Mini comes with 10.4, and I actually have 10.5 on hand. Furthermore, this one is cheaply priced since it's obviously not one of the newer models. Would something like this be good?

[Case]

What does RAM do? Is that related to memory?

RAM is an acronym for Random-access memory, so that IS memory (of the volatile kind). Usually each model computer has its own specification of what type of modules it will hold, what maximum, etc. Applications use various amounts of memory according to their needs. If there is little memory available to running applications, the system will try to swap idle parts of memory to the hard disk to free up some memory; this will slow down the system as that swapping takes time.

What do graphic and video chips do?

The most basic idea is that the graphics chipset is responsible for rendering whatever happens on your screen. This is being extended somewhat in that specialty chips can do their own calculations (apart from the main processor of the computer) and can have their own graphics memory, which is often used in 3D rendering, including games.

Are there any SuperDrives that support ripping Blu-Rays and DVDs as well as reading and writing?

There are external Blu-ray drives that you could hook up to a Mac Mini. The Mac software Blu-ray player market leaves much to be desired, though.

Added:

I don't need a computer to do heavy-handed stuff, I think. Like I said, I just want to be able to play my online game smoothly, watch video files, operate Photoshop, and do other basic computer stuff, and for it to run smoothly.

Games vary in system requirements. So check the games you would want to run for what they require minimum and recommended.
Photoshop requirements start quite low, but it depends on how you use it. If your images are large and complex, or if you want a large history for undo steps, then Photoshop really benefits by having more memory available.

I actually noticed this Mac Mini comes with 10.4, and I actually have 10.5 on hand. Furthermore, this one is cheaply priced since it's obviously not one of the newer models. Would something like this be good?

I wouldn't recommend buying a 2007 machine in 2013 with such low specs for that kind of money. That model is underpowered (1 GB RAM installed, 2 GB RAM max!) for using Photoshop seriously, in my opinion.

[rumplestiltskin]

Agree with Case 110%; it's only with the latest mini (and the top of the line Core i7 at that) that I felt a mini would serve my needs. Check out the Mactracker app for a good comparison of the relative speeds of -all- Mac models.

[crjackson]

I have a shiny new Mac Pro and I love it. That said, I plan to buy a Mac Mini or two for the wife and kids. They can indeed be upgraded with Memory and HD space. It's just not easy to do so, and probably best left to an Apple Service Center if you are a 1st timer. There are alternative softwares that you can install until you can afford (if you still want to) to upgrade your office apps. I use Libre Office a fork from Open Office on my Mac Pro. It works just fine and is "Mostly" compatible with MS Office. I do have MS Office 2011 installed as well, but find myself using Libre Office more. This is because I'm very familiar with it (I'm a long time Linux User).

As long as you plan to get a NEW model, and get most of the top options available (Memory / HD), and taking into consideration your requirements as stated above, I'd pull the trigger. Failing that, look for a used but more powerful Mac to suite your needs.