Are all "bargain" HDTV's junk?

[4your:only]

Simple answer,

You get what you pay for. They can design and assable long lasting TV´s. But they would be twice or three times as expensive than the junk model. First, if it is designed for a double lifetime it has to be twice in price to get the same profit out of it. And second, most consumers want cheap tv´s. Think back some years ago, a decent 42" Flat was about $1500-2000, and nowadays same sized set with more features is less then half that price.
What do you assume, how long would last a car, that has to be build for half the price then the same model some years ago?

This is not my native language, hope I didn´t write to much garbage.

[sanlyn]

True. HDTV at a higher price will usually mean better performance and better reliability. Usually. Some research and shopping around will also improve your luck. But one thing you should never give much attention to: big-store salespeople and manufacturer's advertising. These are like the wild claims of millions-to-one contrast ratios om HDTV cartons. If you can believe any of that hype, then I'm offering you a great deal on a big bridge in New York City.

[brassplyer]

Simple answer,

You get what you pay for. They can design and assable long lasting TV´s. But they would be twice or three times as expensive than the junk model. First, if it is designed for a double lifetime it has to be twice in price to get the same profit out of it.

That's part of what I don't get. Many pieces don't need to be any tougher - you don't need a case and chassis that's made of titanium, afaik the circuit boards, wiring harnesses are generally adequate, screws to hold things together, wire windings don't generally fail do they? Aluminum heat sinks aren't known to simply disintegrate are they? etc. etc.

And besides, this get what you pay for doesn't seem to play out in reality - boutique priced sets don't seem to have much better of a track record of longevity than the junkers given what I've read online.

It doesn't seem like sturdier parts that actually make a difference should be that much more expensive. If you can buy better caps for $1.50 retail, some major manufacturer who buys them by the trainload can get them for a fraction of that. If it costs me say, $100 retail to replace all the caps in the set with better ones, surely it would cost the majors a few bucks - and the physical process of installing them costs them nothing more than installing the iffy caps. So how does this translate to supposedly skyrocketing prices? Tighten up whatever part of the process causes dead pixels on the screens, bad soldering, etc.

Factor in that in doing so the costs involved with the returns process will be lower, occasional class action lawsuits that I hear about, and the like.

[brassplyer]

But one thing you should never give much attention to: big-store salespeople and manufacturer's advertising. These are like the wild claims of millions-to-one contrast ratios om HDTV cartons. If you can believe any of that hype, then I'm offering you a great deal on a big bridge in New York City.

I'm not actually a huge fan of HDTV to begin with, particularly cable tv HD. I was in a store watching a football game on their pricey, massive set. I always see the same issues - sure there's that initially in-your-face look of certain shiny surfaces like the helmets but there's compression artifacts, grass that looks like video game grass and has this constantly morphing texture - and the grass of course is always a large percentage of the image - drives me nuts. Ditto with golf. I don't see how people can stand to watch it for hours.

[4your:only]

I have learned that quality and price are two sides of the same medal that way:

A loooong time ago, (no internet, and very limited access to information about reliablity of consumer products) my wife and I went to our first full sized own sweet home. We bought two 4:3 Tube TV´s, one for the living room, and the other .... The living room TV was a Phillips Matchline 38" that I was told from some TV repair shop as rock solid builds. The other was a cheapo. After round about 9 years the cheapo died, and it was exchanged with another cheap unit. 8 years later we had to move to another town, the cheapo Tv survived the transport, but died 6 month after. Then it was changed to a smaller flat TV. We decided to change the Phillips to a big plasma, when it dies.
I had to kill the Phillips TV to get my big screen in the living room. I killed it 3 years ago after 20+ years without any repair, and still running with nearly perfect color and focus, but a small degree in brighness.

The phillips was twice the price of a same sized standard model.

@brassplyer

It´s not the case or the ciruitboard itself, its the Panel, Tranformers, driver circuits, D/A - A/D IC´s, Tuners, Speakers, audio circuits, and so on, and the quality of the factory adjustment. I have never seen grass matching with what you see through the window on cheap (and a lot of name brand ) units. There are still a few small manufacturers building high quality TV´s, but the price is somewhat out of range, only for enthusiasts. They are designed, manufactured and quality controlled in the same factory under one roof, produced and tested nearby.
Nothing collected from around the world parts, designed for wordwide, assembled somewhere else, transported and sold in another part of the world.

By the way : I had to buy Speakers and an A/V receiver. The sound of the Phillips TV (mono) with the build in bassreflex sub woofer on the right side and mid/high speaker on front was from another universe compared to the so called sound system from the Plasma.

[sanlyn]

I'm not actually a huge fan of HDTV to begin with, particularly cable tv HD. I was in a store watching a football game on their pricey, massive set. I always see the same issues - sure there's that initially in-your-face look of certain shiny surfaces like the helmets but there's compression artifacts, grass that looks like video game grass and has this constantly morphing texture - and the grass of course is always a large percentage of the image - drives me nuts. Ditto with golf. I don't see how people can stand to watch it for hours.

I see you've been watching the typical hookup -- the same setup used in most homes (and that doesn't count the really dumb setups that make things worse). In a showroom it's difficult to judge by the piped-in video. Whether it's a special demo source designed to mask LCD faults or line off cable, store hookups are so slapdash and changed so often that it's a wonder anything goes through at all. So welcome to all those LCD's that people say look so "great!" in the user reviews.

The bigger the set, the more evident are its built-in flaws and the noise/artifacts from inferior sources and transmission lines. It's given that LCD's can't handle motion, for various reasons -- mainly that LCD cells never turn off, so your eyes retain an image that doesn't fade every 1/30 or 1/60 second the way it does on a CRT, plasma, or in a movie house. The blur is an optical illusion. Phillips solved that problem years ago when they designed a backlight that dimmed every 1/30 second: an ingeniously simple and inexpensive solution. The result? The average consumer is blind as a bat and clueless about lighting conditions, claiming that the Phillips TV's didn't look as bright as the other TV's in the showrooms. Forget that the design's brightness matched or exceeded that of any known consumer CRT or plasma, and that store lighting is brighter than home lighting. In a home under the usual viewing conditions the Phillips sets looked as bright as other TVs. But Mr+Mrs Consumer preferred smear, blur and volcano-mode over clarity, so nobody bought the Phillips except a few staunch souls who knew what the hell a TV was. In place of the simple solution is an artifact-ridden 120Hz or faster screen repainting system (which commands a higher price, but still doesn't work very well), and which creates other problems to the extent that most videophiles turn those features off. Add the rage for LED lighting (thinner is better?) that all but destroys screen uniformity, and you see the results.

Perhaps your showroom experience explains a few things. For instance, why do some buyers never bother to shop in showrooms? There are people on the planet who insist on specific TVs, a/v receivers, connecting cables, and whatnot, and can actually explain their choices in terms unrelated to advertising claims. People actually read about this stuff and ignore naysayers who claim that everything looks and sounds the same. Perhaps this is why some people learn to calibrate their equipment and spend some time matching certain components with others, and why certain "extra" features don't sway them. There are people who ignore specious labels such as "digital speakers" because they know that loudspeakers aren't digital, they're electro-mechanical (analog) devices and the "digital" label is just a phony ploy.

Occasionally I take a 90-minute drive (each way) to a small high-end a/v shop that carries a limited line of models. Their TVs are adjusted using the same gear that you and I can afford and learn to use. Rather than playing demos designed to mask defects, they play good DVD and BD issues that can be purchased anywhere. Their displays look beautiful; they can rival well adjusted CRT's in many respects. Few a/v shops go through this trouble, and they can't afford to sell at discount. But browsing in their shop is a most revealing experience....not to mention simply mouth-watering at times, as I can't afford even some of their "budget" stuff and will make do with what I have until it dies. But some of it is truly affordable if you know what you're looking for. And if you ignore the big-store hype.

So, again, it comes down to looking before you leap and getting a little technical know-how. You don't have to be a rocket scientist. You just have to be careful.

[4your:only]

Yes, I fully agree with sanlyn. Typical showrooms are nogo areas. There is nothing calibrated, not even setup with the best matching factory settings, nearly everything is screwed up by people playing with the remotes and so on.

Check well known independant testing lab publications with detailed information regarding picture quality. Check out the TV Set´s that don´t need in deep calibration. One of the predefined viewing Profiles should match natural colors/brighness/contrast as close as possible.

Good picture and longer lasting are two different parts, but more common outside the low budget area.

If possible, check the TV of choice with a DVD or BD you own and know the picture and sound on your old equipment with the Profile choosen by the test lab for optimal result.

Maybe your friends are willing to play with their Set´s to get some feeling for the settings you have to look for.