DVB Recomendations

[dragonkeeper]

Looking for recommendations on a DVB card and DVB software. Would like to hear pros an cons for using a particular card, software etc.

[edDV]

Looking for recommendations on a DVB card and DVB software. Would like to here pros an cons for using a particular card, software etc.

You say USA. How are you receiving DVB?

If sat DX try to find a forum for that hobby.

[dragonkeeper]

Looking for recommendations on a DVB card and DVB software. Would like to here pros an cons for using a particular card, software etc.

You say USA. How are you receiving DVB?

If sat DX try to find a forum for that hobby.

Just looking to get DVB-T (ABC,FOX,NBC,CBS) not really interested in DVB-S. I buy enough movies and box sets of TV shows that having a subscription to a satellite service is a waste of money imo. I have been burned enough times by siting in on 2 seasons of a show only to have it canceled mid way of the third season. Or sometimes just after the first season.

I now wait for the season to end and some times the show itself to come out on DVD. Worked really great with STV by the time the 5th and 6th season were released on DVD seasons 1 - 4 were less than half their original price.

[edDV]

Looking for recommendations on a DVB card and DVB software. Would like to here pros an cons for using a particular card, software etc.

You say USA. How are you receiving DVB?

If sat DX try to find a forum for that hobby.

I have been burned enough times by siting in on 2 seasons of a show only to have it canceled mid way of the third season. Or sometimes just after the first season.

Been there done that but don't get the DVB-T connection (in USA). Others will comment.

[dragonkeeper]

Been there done that but don't get the DVB-T connection (in USA). Others will comment.

Please elaborate.

I would get basic cable, with the addition of the local channels it would only be $15 a month, but why pay for the local channels when i can get them free. Aside from that I live in a rural area cable is not available in my area only option i have is Dish network or Direct-TV. Can't use stream video the only internet provider in the area is Centurytel and the fasteset broadband available in my area is 1.5 MB DSL for wich the charge me $60 a month (another example of businesses raping the customer).

Looking for options:
I have 50" plasma TV connected to a HTPC in the masterbed room, 42" HD ready plasmas connected to HTPC in two spare bedrooms, and a projector connected to a HTPC in theater room. I was thinking of setting up an antenna array, and split the signal to tuner cards in each of the HTPCs. Was thinking DVB card in each HTPC, is there a better option?

[edDV]

Do you mean USA OTA broadcast ATSC?

If so, put your zip code or address into this FCC site and it will show some possible local ATSC broadcast channels. Next comes appropriate antenna and pointing.
http://transition.fcc.gov/mb/engineering/maps/

[dragonkeeper]

Do you mean USA OTA broadcast ATSC?

Yes, over the air. I sn't OTA considered to be DVB-T?.

If so, put your zip code or address into this FCC site and it will show some possible local ATSC broadcast channels.

I have done that I have some 13 channels with in a 40 mile radius.

Next comes appropriate antenna and pointing.

I plan on building an antenna array using two D.I.Y fractal antenna. And possibly throw in a signal amplifier for good measure. According to reviews this setup should out perform pretty much anything i can buy. But i still need a way to tune the channels in on the HD ready TVs and the projector since they already have HTPC connected to them i was considering three of these DVB cards.

[usually_quiet]

If you mean OTA digital TV in the USA, change the title of your thread to show ATSC not DVB. DVB is not used in N. America. It is a different system than ATSC, and DVB-T tuners don't work for ATSC broadcasts.

A good antenna setup will be crucial if you are out in the country. Do what edDV suggested and find out what you can reasonably expect to get, and what kind of outdoor antennas you need for your location.

If you only want to receive ATSC broadcasts off antenna, and have no interest in watching analog cable channels or recording the output from a cable box, here are some digital only dual-tuner models that get a lot of good reviews.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815100041
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815345007

The AVerMedia Duet is an internal PCI-e card, while the HD Homerun is an external networkable device. Both of those have one coax connection with an internal spltter.

The Hauppauge WinTV-HVR-2250 is another dual tuner PCI-e model that offers analog tuners and analog capture. It has two coax connections to connect to an antenna, and no internal splitter.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16815116037

The links I gave are for the two PCI-e devices are for white-box products that don't come with the manufacturers softare. Some people do use the manufacturers software, but it seems like more people want to use third-party TV software.

Two tuners are nice (I often wish I had two), but if you only need one tuner or need a portable USB device for a laptop, I'll make other recommendations.

Recommendations for free software that I have used and have gotten to work successfully for OTA:

1. Windows 7's Media Center -- It has the best user interface overall of the three DTV-capable software packages I have used, and free as long as you have one of the Windows 7 versions that includes it. It is very easy to set up compared to the other two. Some people dislike the .wtv container it uses for recordings, but MC-TVConverter can easily convert to .ts or .mpg.

2. NextPVR a.k.a NPVR was the next easiest to set up, but not as easy as WMC. It records in .ts format.

3. MediaPortal has a better-looking user interface than NPVR with more options, but setup is definitely trickier.

[Edit] If you need a PCI card, the HVR-1600 is OK, ...But since it is an older model than the ones I mentioned, the tuner may be less sensitive. As for the fractal antenna, I first became aware of the fractal antenna design you plan to use over a year ago. I have my doubts about it outperforming a good, large outdoor antenna, but have fun building it.

[edDV]

Antenna setup will be crutial but must be tailored and pointed to the transmitter locations in your area.

In most cities, the transmitters are grouped in one general location to make it easy to get them all with a semi-directional antenna. In other cases, you may be between cities and need multiple antennas to receive them all.

40 miles in flat areas is easy. Where I am I need a big directional antenna to bring in stations from 60-130 miles away. It helps that I'm at 3,000 ft elevation but still lack line of sight to any desirable transmitter. I need to work the "1Edge" and "2Edge". That means signals curved over ridges.

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29

Is a good sight to plot your location re transmitters and help with antenna design. Post the plot here (less address) to get an antenna analysis.

[dragonkeeper]

Post the plot here (less address) to get an antenna analysis.

Here's the plot.

[dragonkeeper]

If you mean OTA digital TV in the USA, change the title of your thread to show ATSC not DVB. DVB is not used in N. America. It is a different system than ATSC, and DVB-T tuners don't work for ATSC broadcasts.

Thanks for the clarification, and the recommendation on cards. This will be going in my HTPC units, so i think that internal would be better in the long run than a USB device.

Recommendations for free software that I have used and have gotten to work successfully for OTA:

I've tried most media center software incuding Win. 7 Media Center and MediaPortal neither had all the functionality I wanted. Which caused me to start writing my own front end. I'm not familiar with NextPVR but will give it a try. it just may save me from trying to write my own scheduler for my frot end.

As for the fractal antenna, I first became aware of the fractal antenna design you plan to use over a year ago. I have my doubts about it outperforming a good, large outdoor antenna, but have fun building it.

I will be building a much larger version of the fractal antenna, 3 ft x2 ft. This will be used in a two antenna array in the attic.

[edDV]

You will need two fixed antennas or one with rotator. You are lucky that only one strong channel is VHF (ch9). That will take a separate antenna design. Attic mount usually cuts reception in half vs outside pole.

Direction A will be easiest (other than ch9). The stations are grouped and the signals are stronger. Direction B has two strong stations. The rest look weak. The list view will help me predict which will come in.


A good plan is to ask/observe what neighbors are using.

For direction A, I'd suggest these antennas. Shop online prices.
93" Deep
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=91XG&d=Antennas-Direct-91XG-UHF-TV-Antenna-(91XG)&c=TV Antennas&sku=853748001910
50" Deep (you may need a pre-amp* to make this one work)
http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=43XG&d=Antennas-Direct-43XG-UHF-TV-Antenna-(43XG)&c=TV%20Antennas&sku=&more=yes

http://www.solidsignal.com/pview.asp?mc=03&p=4228-HD&d=Channel-Master-4228HD-8bay-HDTVUHF-TV-Antenna-(4228HD)&c=TV Antennas&sku=

This antenna has a built in amp and rotor. It may work outside.
http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM3173222802P?sid=IDx20101019x00001a&ci_src=...=SPM3173222802


* I use this pre-amp
http://www.summitsource.com/product_info.php?ref=1&products_id=7067

[usually_quiet]

If you mean OTA digital TV in the USA, change the title of your thread to show ATSC not DVB. DVB is not used in N. America. It is a different system than ATSC, and DVB-T tuners don't work for ATSC broadcasts.

Thanks for the clarification, and the recommendation on cards. This will be going in my HTPC units, so i think that internal would be better in the long run than a USB device.

If your HTPCs are on a home network, the SiliconDust HDHomeRun offers some advantages over internal cards. As I understand it, the tuners can be seen and used by any PC in the network running appropriate software. Two of them would give you 4 tuners and maybe for a lower cost less than 3 HVR 1600 cards. I know it works with Windows 7 Media Center. I can't remember what other PVR software supports it. Maybe they all do, but I'm not certain.

Recommendations for free software that I have used and have gotten to work successfully for OTA:

I've tried most media center software incuding Win. 7 Media Center and MediaPortal neither had all the functionality I wanted. Which caused me to start writing my own front end. I'm not familiar with NextPVR but will give it a try. it just may save me from trying to write my own scheduler for my frot end.

What features are missing that you want? Since you are asking for software recommendations, it would be helpful to know that up front.

[dragonkeeper]

You will need two fixed antennas or one with rotator. You are lucky that only one strong channel is VHF (ch9). That will take a separate antenna design. Attic mount usually cuts reception in half vs outside pole.

Yeah I was thinking of building an array consisting of at least two antenna one pointing northeast and one pointing southeast. I live in a two story house so i was hoping the added elevation would partially make up for the fact that the unit is in my attic. Also I have the added benefit having direct access to my attic through a door in my upstairs hallway, so set up and adjustment should be a snap.

Direction A will be easiest (other than ch9). The stations are grouped and the signals are stronger. Direction B has two strong stations. The rest look weak. The list view will help me predict which will come in.

Here is the Plot and list view data.

A good plan is to ask/observe what neighbors are using.

Everyone i know is either on satellite or cable, they are totally unaware that they can get the local channels for free and in most cases better quality than they current provider is able to offer.

For direction A, I'd suggest these antennas. Shop online prices.

Thank for the suggestions, i will definitely take a look at these if the DIY fractal antenna isn't up to par. I can build it in a couple of hours in my shop and i already have everything i need laying around my shop.

[dragonkeeper]

If your HTPCs are on a home network, the SiliconDust HDHomeRun offers some advantages over internal cards. As I understand it, the tuners can be seen and used by any PC in the network running appropriate software. Two of them would give you 4 tuners and maybe for a lower cost less than 3 HVR 1600 cards. I know it works with Windows 7 Media Center. I can't remember what other PVR software supports it. Maybe they all do, but I'm not certain.

Yes the HTPCs are on a network (just order a router upgrade, attempting to upgrade to a gigabit network). I'm really leaning towards a dual tuner set up so i can do PIP as well as watch one show while recording another. All of my HTPC have identical software and hardware with the exception of the the one in the theater room. This helps to facilitate updating each unit as i only have to setup one unit, after which I create an image to be cloned onto the hard drives of the other units.

What features are missing that you want? Since you are asking for software recommendations, it would be helpful to know that up front.

The two main things i was looking for in Media Center software was;
1. A bit more granularity of media types, for instance my video collection is made up of Movies, Music Videos, Documentaries, Anime and TV Shows. I wanted each of these broken out as a separate category. With the ability to press a button and the appp goes out and scrapes the data for the media in question. Some apps could scape movie data and a few could scrape TV data, but none i found could scrape anime or documentaries.

2. I wanted a more robust catalog system. I not only wanted to have a catalog of the media on my system drives I also wanted to be able to catalog my backups as well as my massive DVD and Blu-ray collection. (All my rips are backed up to optical media. Optical media is to my knowledge the most hearty form of backup we currently have.

[edDV]

Bad news is you have only 4 LOS (line of sight) choices. All the othere have one or more hills/ridges in the way (1Edge/2Edge) not counting trees or buildings.

Good news is you are fairly close to Fayetteville

[dragonkeeper]

Bad news is you have only 4 LOS (line of sight) choices. All the othere have one or more hills/ridges in the way (1Edge/2Edge) not counting trees or buildings.

Good news is you are fairly close to Fayetteville

Yah, I'm in a mountainous region. I knew that anything past Fayetteville would probably not have LOS, since they are further down the mountain range. But it does provide optimal conditions for trying a fractal antenna.

[usually_quiet]

If your HTPCs are on a home network, the SiliconDust HDHomeRun offers some advantages over internal cards. As I understand it, the tuners can be seen and used by any PC in the network running appropriate software. Two of them would give you 4 tuners and maybe for a lower cost less than 3 HVR 1600 cards. I know it works with Windows 7 Media Center. I can't remember what other PVR software supports it. Maybe they all do, but I'm not certain.

Yes the HTPCs are on a network (just order a router upgrade, attempting to upgrade to a gigabit network). I'm really leaning towards a dual tuner set up so i can do PIP as well as watch one show while recording another. All of my HTPC have identical software and hardware with the exception of the the one in the theater room. This helps to facilitate updating each unit as i only have to setup one unit, after which I create an image to be cloned onto the hard drives of the other units.

What features are missing that you want? Since you are asking for software recommendations, it would be helpful to know that up front.

The two main things i was looking for in Media Center software was;
1. A bit more granularity of media types, for instance my video collection is made up of Movies, Music Videos, Documentaries, Anime and TV Shows. I wanted each of these broken out as a separate category. With the ability to press a button and the appp goes out and scrapes the data for the media in question. Some apps could scape movie data and a few could scrape TV data, but none i found could scrape anime or documentaries.

2. I wanted a more robust catalog system. I not only wanted to have a catalog of the media on my system drives I also wanted to be able to catalog my backups as well as my massive DVD and Blu-ray collection. (All my rips are backed up to optical media. Optical media is to my knowledge the most hearty form of backup we currently have.

None of the third-party Windows PVR software I have used allows picture in picture. MythTV apparently does, but of course it is Linux only.

For Windows users, AVerMedia's software supports picture in picture, but a retail version of AVerMedia cards is needed to use the software. The white-box versions of their TV cards are deliberately rendered inoperable with the AVer Media Center software, and it doesn't work with cards from other makers. The software itself doesn't get a lot of praise in user reviews.

Pinnacle's TVCenter Pro supports picture in picture for their hardware as well, but I know nothing about it

I don't have a vast media collection to organize, and have never used XBMC, but I think it may have the granularity and organizing features you are looking for. Maybe they will add better native support for TV tuners one day, but at present XBMC can apparently be configured to use Windows Media Center or MediaPortal, plus Argus For The Record (which I know nothing about) as a TV back end.

[Edit]I took another look at XBMC, and it won't do everything you want either. Probably nothing does at this point.

[edDV]

Bad news is you have only 4 LOS (line of sight) choices. All the othere have one or more hills/ridges in the way (1Edge/2Edge) not counting trees or buildings.

Good news is you are fairly close to Fayetteville

Yah, I'm in a mountainous region. I knew that anything past Fayetteville would probably not have LOS, since they are further down the mountain range. But it does provide optimal conditions for trying a fractal antenna.

Mountains and ridges here too. 1Edge and 2Edge paths are tricky. You are grabbing spill signal that bends over hills and ridges. TV Fool has a nice feature few know about. If you click on the call letters, TV Fool will plot a signal path to your location showing the terrain between you and the selected transmitter. This is the path of my best network station. This station usually comes in but others come and go seasonally and by time of day. Antenna pointing needs to be +/- 2 degrees or it goes away.



I've got 7 ATSC tuners now (3 in TVs, 2 computer cards and 2 D/A converter boxes). Long distance performance varies.

[edDV]

There is an additional tool useful to predict reception.
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=66&Itemid=1

Same station as above. The marker is the transmitting antenna.


You can zoom these maps down to the street level to predict neighborhood reception for that paticular transmitter. Pink means a very weak signal requiring a large directional antenna.

[dragonkeeper]

Thanks for all the useful information EdDV and usually_quiet.

I've built the fractal antenna based on the following diagram.
http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FVZ/JY82/GL4Z4XRS/FVZJY82GL4Z4XRS.pdf
I albeit it is considerably larger, my fractals are based on 2" 60 degree triangles. the competed antenna measures 38" x 56". I am able to pick up 13 channels with the antenna, which is impressive considering the antenna is currently propped up against the wall next to the TV. I'll pick up an amplifier tomorrow and mount the antenna in the attic. I''ll let you know if i'm able to pick up any additional channels once the antenna is properly mounted.

[edDV]

Thanks for all the useful information EdDV and usually_quiet.

I've built the fractal antenna based on the following diagram.
http://www.instructables.com/files/orig/FVZ/JY82/GL4Z4XRS/FVZJY82GL4Z4XRS.pdf
I albeit it is considerably larger, my fractals are based on 2" 60 degree triangles. the competed antenna measures 38" x 56". I am able to pick up 13 channels with the antenna, which is impressive considering the antenna is currently propped up against the wall next to the TV. I'll pick up an amplifier tomorrow and mount the antenna in the attic. I''ll let you know if i'm able to pick up any additional channels once the antenna is properly mounted.

Please flag which channels on the list are received.

Are they intermittent? Also, more details on the antenna.

[dragonkeeper]

Please flag which channels on the list are received.

KAFT - 13.1
KNWA - 51.1
KPBI - 34.1
KFSM 05.1

Are they intermittent? Also, more details on the antenna.

The only time i have notice any dropouts is when someone walks into the signal path.I used a fractal design just made it a bit bigger.

I built a wooden frame out of 1"x2" top & bottom pieces are 38" wide side pieces are 56". I used these pieces to create a rectangle, i added 4 1x2 internal corner braces cut on 45 degree angles for added rigidity. I then draped the frames with plastic poultry netting. The netting was pulled as taught as possible then stapled in place.
Each of copper fractals were made of bare 36" 12 gauge copper wire. There are a total of 6 fractals 3 on the left side and 3 on the right side of the antenna. (The fractal were made using 2" 60 degree angles, instead of the suggested 1"). I used nylon ties to attach the copper fractals to the plastic poultry netting.I used 2 additional pieces (1 per side) of copper wire to connect the three fractals. I then attached a 300ohm to 75ohm matching transformer/balum. I will probably add a reflector made of chicken wire to the back side of the frame to see if it improves reception any.

I'll post pics in the AM.

Here is a diagram of the fractal antenna.
http://www.instructables.com/files/o...82GL4Z4XRS.pdf