The Ultimate Camcorder - Why is nobody building it?

[SpectateSwamp]

I'm going to spill my guts on what I think would improve camcorders. But it will be a useless waste of time if I don't get the ear of the major camcorder manufacturers design teams. I'd like to get a list of their email addresses; giving them a heads up, that there are some questions they should be answering for their customers. It's not that I'm picking on any one supplier. They are all falling way short. They seem to be far more driven by the marketing departments and have completely failed the video enthusiasts.

I'd like the email addresses for
Sony, Panasonic, Hitachi, Cannon, Samsung, Sharp, Toshiba, JVC Kodak Sanyo and others

So they can be here and responding. As we all know old threads get locked and lost. I want these guys here from the get-go. I sure hope I can get the emails for the above groups. I want to send them a nice invite here to explain themselves.

I'll see what I can find on the above companies and any others that might get added by forum members.

Thanks in advance..

I'll upload a list of my complaints shortly. Spell checking and making sure the list is as complete as possible. I don't have all the answers

[zoobie]

A few did this in other forums. They were promptly told to mind their own business...which was exactly what they were doing. It will probably be difficult reaching the higher-ups because part of the job of the lower-downs is to filter such. Perhaps your best bet is to visit each mfg's forum where there's usually a wish list on upcoming features.

Good Luck!

PS - I can't wait until each mfg has their own proprietary codec...

[filmboss80]

I would venture to speculate that what you're looking for already exists -- just at a higher price than you might be willing to pay. However, it's a bit difficult to fully comprehend your rant unless we know a few more specifics as to where your expectations fall. As for e-mail addresses, did it not occur to you to go to the websites of the manufacturers you listed? They always want customer feedback to build better products that can knock out the competition. Your best bet, however, is to attend conventions like NAB and talk directly to the manufacturer's reps. You might find that they're all open ears...unless, of course, your demands are irrational/unreasonable.

Lotsa luck.

[SpectateSwamp]

* It should be cheap so people will take it with them. Not worrying about theft or damage.

* at least 10 x zoom (too much zoom cost $$$)

* The ability to attach to a spotting scope for digiscoping
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYszdLbKYc
I had the Camcorder on a tripod behind the spotting scope on another tripod to get the above video

* Excessive storage (more that 1 days shooting) is a waste and just a marketing ploy and cost more $$$

* CamCorders should have a 8 foot cord to start and stop videoing like old time cameras had. Eliminates jigglies at beginning and end of each video clip and blurred pictures. It would also allow me to start recording with the CC and tripod held way overhead like when doing curling video. If no remote; then how about an option to start recording 1/2 second after the button is pushed and chop off the last 1/2 second from when the stop is hit, banishing the jigglies. And a profanity delay option where the last 3 seconds or so never gets recorded. That will save a lot of editing time for foul language. If there is a cheap remote then the sensor; should be on the back of the CC. 99% of the time I use the remote from behind the CamCorder.

* The view screen should be detachable with a 10 inch connecting cord, so I can mount it on the tripod and can turn the camcorder around and not have to follow it. Useful for videoing around corners as well.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov9w4WxKFCs
This curling video could benefit from the detachable screen. I was just guessing at the target.. Going from eye level to far overhead and extended over the curlers. I could no longer see the screen.

* it should have a mute button; some systems (mine) can sync music in another session with no editing or I might be videoing from 2 camcorders simultaneously for playback on a computer controlling TWO large screens. I don't want to have to sync the sound from both CC's.

* Kill the Digital Zoom. What a totally useless option.

* the CC should record with the view screen closed (my Hitachi 350a does) in winter I wrapped my hands around it so it wouldn't freeze up in the -20F temperatures.

* Design it like a flashlight. Using the hand strap is a stupid position to shoot video from. Replacing the hand strap with a wrist strap. I did video of the Canadian national aboriginal fast ball tournament. Holding the CC like a pistol, I could video the pitcher and easily beat the ball to home plate to capture the swing.

* the format should be MPG. There are all kinds of users with video editors that handle this format. Don't force them to spend $$$ on software. As well the greatest FREE video player ever does this format

* The menu should start with these most commonly used options: "offload" "clear old video" "set date and time" then the rest of the more useless options after that.

* Videos should be in short segments not all in 1 huge file. If you are uploading to the NET then you don't need to edit the video to have just the important part uploaded.

* video files should have the names like YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.mpg (my Sony does). That way I could have the 2nd camcorder date set to 5 or 10 seconds after the other and combine the video from both camcorders and have one view play then the other. eg.
http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=13A340479871BAC3
My old Hitachi doesn't name like this so I had to manually rename each video clip to YYYYMMDDHHMMSSa.mpg for the above play-list. What a waste of time.

* They should be powered by standard AAA batteries (Batteries not included) saving $$$. Otherwise users should spend their money on large car booster type batteries that have standard power outlets. At least the extra expenditure will be of use for other electronics. For my first camcorder I bought a 2nd battery and a 3rd because #2 was a dud and then the charger got screwed up so I had to buy a replacement. I could have had $200 in my pocket If I had the AAA batteries and the mega power pack. Having the camcorder on and ready is very important. Too many great shots are missed waiting for the camcorder to power up.

* A spotting tube mounted along the top so that in bright daylight so you can point the camcorder exactly at faint objects (birds and jets) this mount should fit a holder with velcro straps to hold a flashlight for night video. or down a beaver run.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmsUNzMSv-A
An attached flashlight would have been handy.

* put a lock out or cover on the zoom button. I have ruined a couple video clips by accidentally hitting the zoom.

* If you are going to offer lat/long then how about having the option to put it in the picture or at the end of the video as a watermark. My Sony puts the video GPS location in a accompanying text file and the pics have it buried inside; requiring software to see it. More $$$ and software required.

* How about extra large font (on the view screen) showing the time. I sometimes want to announce that info in the video. In sunlight it's impossible and I don't wear a watch.

* How about a fluffy cover attachment to cut down wind noise. They have it on hand held microphones why not camcorders

* The record indicator on the front is good. I use it to let the audience know they are being videoed. Once they have been videoed they seem to calm down.

Video hint: Just as I use short-short clips to create breaks for random replay groups (golf foursomes). 2 Short clips could easily be found and indicate that the last long clip was a goal or something special or XXX rated. Making that clip quick to find and deal with.

I don't edit any video and it makes doing video far easier for the novice if they don't have to learn editing software.

Remember manufacturers; you are in the business of capturing video not selling batteries and video editing software. with these simple techniques no editing is required.

I'm sure there are other great features that the Ultimate Camcorder could use. Please list them here...

[edDV]

Hmm, looks like a first gen Mil-Spec RFQ that gets quoted in $six figures in large quanity.

I mostly agree with FilmBoss that the specialty camcorder market is mostly covered for known user groups but like you I am unhappy with camcorder selection for my specific needs/wants. We are talking current technology right?

I'll assume my needs and work my way down your list.

[budwzr]

How about a 2X4 strap so the camcorder doesn't fall in too on those XXX rated shots?

[edDV]

* It should be cheap so people will take it with them. Not worrying about theft or damage.

* at least 10 x zoom (too much zoom cost $$$)

Cheap means that many may buy them. Manufacturing scale determines "cost". User demand determines street price. If price excedes cost then somebody may build it.

10x optical zoom adds size and weight to the camcorder and limits low light capability unless the "glass"** gets large. Large has sales resistance.

** Typical consumer lens is plastic.

[edDV]

* The ability to attach to a spotting scope for digiscoping

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PSYszdLbKYc
I had the Camcorder on a tripod behind the spotting scope on another tripod to get the above video

Very specialized so should be a potential business for you.

Why not use the camcorder as the spotting scope? I'd like to understand the need.

In astronomical terms, a "spotting scope" is wide angle intended to be an aide to directing the higher power Newton scope.

In military terms, a "spotting scope" directs a gun to a head movement. We are talking 6-8 figures here.

[edDV]

* Excessive storage (more that 1 days shooting) is a waste and just a marketing ploy and cost more $$$

No manufacturer would add "excessive storage" unless there was no additional cost.

[edDV]

* CamCorders should have a 8 foot cord to start and stop videoing like old time cameras had. Eliminates jigglies at beginning and end of each video clip and blurred pictures. It would also allow me to start recording with the CC and tripod held way overhead like when doing curling video. If no remote; then how about an option to start recording 1/2 second after the button is pushed and chop off the last 1/2 second from when the stop is hit, banishing the jigglies. And a profanity delay option where the last 3 seconds or so never gets recorded. That will save a lot of editing time for foul language. If there is a cheap remote then the sensor; should be on the back of the CC. 99% of the time I use the remote from behind the CamCorder.

Hah. I'm sympathetic to start stop delay because the start stop jiggle is 50% of my clip editing need. As for profanity mute your mouth.

Older Sony cams had the LANC remote capability but controller sales were low. Replacement was a poor IR remote. Nobody cared so LANC was deleted. I hate when features are deleted with no work around.

Be back later. Rain is stopping.


PS: Consumer camcorder manufacturers assume IR remote is for shooter getting into the shot so they put the sensor on the front of the cam.

[edDV]

Raining again

* The view screen should be detachable with a 10 inch connecting cord, so I can mount it on the tripod and can turn the camcorder around and not have to follow it. Useful for videoing around corners as well.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ov9w4WxKFCs
This curling video could benefit from the detachable screen. I was just guessing at the target.. Going from eye level to far overhead and extended over the curlers. I could no longer see the screen.

Would add cost with few addiional sales.

Semi-pros and pros monitor off the A/V connector to an external monitor (aka director's monitor).

[edDV]

* Kill the Digital Zoom. What a totally useless option.

I would agree but some saps would buy based on nnnx zoom. Who is at fault here? I say the saps.

[edDV]

* the CC should record with the view screen closed (my Hitachi 350a does) in winter I wrapped my hands around it so it wouldn't freeze up in the -20F temperatures.

All my cams record with screen closed.

* Design it like a flashlight. Using the hand strap is a stupid position to shoot video from. Replacing the hand strap with a wrist strap. I did video of the Canadian national aboriginal fast ball tournament. Holding the CC like a pistol, I could video the pitcher and easily beat the ball to home plate to capture the swing.

Pros use shoulder mount or other cam stabilization. Consumers don't care presale. They may wonder after.

Maybe another business opportunity for you.

[edDV]

* the format should be MPG. There are all kinds of users with video editors that handle this format. Don't force them to spend $$$ on software. As well the greatest FREE video player ever does this format

As opposed to what?

What editing software do you use? SD or HD?

[edDV]

* The menu should start with these most commonly used options: "offload" "clear old video" "set date and time" then the rest of the more useless options after that.

Date and time?

* Videos should be in short segments not all in 1 huge file. If you are uploading to the NET then you don't need to edit the video to have just the important part uploaded.

Most capture software allows scene break based on timecode.

* video files should have the names like YYYYMMDDHHMMSS.mpg (my Sony does). That way I could have the 2nd camcorder date set to 5 or 10 seconds after the other and combine the video from both camcorders and have one view play then the other. eg.

http://www.youtube.com/my_playlists?p=13A340479871BAC3

Or you could edit.

[edDV]

* They should be powered by standard AAA batteries (Batteries not included) saving $$$. Otherwise users should spend their money on large car booster type batteries that have standard power outlets. At least the extra expenditure will be of use for other electronics. For my first camcorder I bought a 2nd battery and a 3rd because #2 was a dud and then the charger got screwed up so I had to buy a replacement. I could have had $200 in my pocket If I had the AAA batteries and the mega power pack. Having the camcorder on and ready is very important. Too many great shots are missed waiting for the camcorder to power up.

Lithium batteries mostly solved the problem but they die after 4 years. AAA batteries don't have the power but externals can work for a long shoot.

[edDV]

* A spotting tube mounted along the top so that in bright daylight so you can point the camcorder exactly at faint objects (birds and jets) this mount should fit a holder with velcro straps to hold a flashlight for night video. or down a beaver run.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VmsUNzMSv-A
An attached flashlight would have been handy.

Another hot shoe accessory business opportunity.

* put a lock out or cover on the zoom button. I have ruined a couple video clips by accidentally hitting the zoom.

ok, never had that problem.

* If you are going to offer lat/long then how about having the option to put it in the picture or at the end of the video as a watermark. My Sony puts the video GPS location in a accompanying text file and the pics have it buried inside; requiring software to see it. More $$$ and software required.

Another easy software app (should be free)

* How about extra large font (on the view screen) showing the time. I sometimes want to announce that info in the video. In sunlight it's impossible and I don't wear a watch.

hmm

* How about a fluffy cover attachment to cut down wind noise. They have it on hand held microphones why not camcorders

Agree it would be cheap to include.

* The record indicator on the front is good. I use it to let the audience know they are being videoed. Once they have been videoed they seem to calm down.

Sometimes you want to turn the tally light off.

Video hint: Just as I use short-short clips to create breaks for random replay groups (golf foursomes). 2 Short clips could easily be found and indicate that the last long clip was a goal or something special or XXX rated. Making that clip quick to find and deal with.

xxx rated? On old camcorders they had index markers for quick cue.

I don't edit any video and it makes doing video far easier for the novice if they don't have to learn editing software.

OK, I'd rather edit.

Remember manufacturers; you are in the business of capturing video not selling batteries and video editing software. with these simple techniques no editing is required.

They are in business for profit and overpriced accessories are where they get most of it. Especially special interest accessories like mics, lights, underwater cases.

[nwo]

I think fisher price sell the camcorder your looking for!

[NJRoadfan]

I would just be happy with a CMOS camera that came with a global shutter or $1000-1500 price point cameras coming with CCDs again. The rolling shutter effect looks cheap and awful, yet somehow manufacturers are now selling "professional level" cameras with it.

[redwudz]

I'd like to see a camcorder with an easily removable 2.5" hard drive module in the pro-sumer price range.

[SpectateSwamp]

* The menu should start with these most commonly used options: "offload" "clear old video" "set date and time" then the rest of the more useless options after that.

Date and time?

Yup date and time. I did video of 2 golf tournaments from 1 hole. I could easily do it from multiple holes with 2 camcorders each. On subsequent holes the CC would have the date set to 1 day later and the next hole a day after that. I could then dump all the video into a folder and my software could catalog it all in seconds. The mini break record allows me to do random by foursome. I learned a lot doing the tournaments and made some program changes to fix the minor problems.

We missed some swings by trying to just capture that. Initially we played the video then the complete clip in slow motion. They got bored watching a 11 sec clip in slow motion. The changed program now plays the video clip and then the last 3 seconds in slow motion. So now we can start recording earlier and stop recording as soon as the swing is complete.

By doing a mini clip as each foursome arrives. I can now do random by foursome. Multiple holes being videoed takes just a little more effort.

Within 15 minutes of leaving the course the video is up and playing on the Club House big screens. And the DVD copies are being burned. Any editing would make the delivery of DVD's way too late. The golfers would have long since left for home.

[SpectateSwamp]

* It should be cheap so people will take it with them. Not worrying about theft or damage.

* at least 10 x zoom (too much zoom cost $$$)

Cheap means that many may buy them. Manufacturing scale determines "cost". User demand determines street price. If price excedes cost then somebody may build it.

10x optical zoom adds size and weight to the camcorder and limits low light capability unless the "glass"** gets large. Large has sales resistance.

** Typical consumer lens is plastic.

Please explain the economics behind $30 DVD players that come with fully funcitonal remotes. They can't cost more than $5. As far as I'm concerned the Remote is the most important feature of any camcorder. I would prefer one that has a cord attached. Then I can trigger the recording without pointing the remote at the front of the CC.

As for the zoom. Zero would be fine with me. I'd spend my money on a spotting scope with a mount for my CC on the back. High quality lenses that are useful after the camcorder dies.

[SpectateSwamp]

* They should be powered by standard AAA batteries (Batteries not included) saving $$$. Otherwise users should spend their money on large car booster type batteries that have standard power outlets. At least the extra expenditure will be of use for other electronics. For my first camcorder I bought a 2nd battery and a 3rd because #2 was a dud and then the charger got screwed up so I had to buy a replacement. I could have had $200 in my pocket If I had the AAA batteries and the mega power pack. Having the camcorder on and ready is very important. Too many great shots are missed waiting for the camcorder to power up.

Lithium batteries mostly solved the problem but they die after 4 years. AAA batteries don't have the power but externals can work for a long shoot.

[Attachment 7214 - Click to enlarge]

This is what I'm talking about. A friend had something similar for $125 that had a trouble light (great for camping) and a mini air compressor, booster cables and standard power outlets. I think my extra batteries cost $70 each. Boy if the consumer knew. They would never buy 1 battery let alone a 2nd or 3rd like I did. Boo manufacturers boo.

[SpectateSwamp]

* the CC should record with the view screen closed (my Hitachi 350a does) in winter I wrapped my hands around it so it wouldn't freeze up in the -20F temperatures.

All my cams record with screen closed.

My Sony doesn't. The shutter opens when the screen door is opened.

[SpectateSwamp]

I don't edit any video and it makes doing video far easier for the novice if they don't have to learn editing software.

OK, I'd rather edit.

But don't force editing on others. A remote solves the most serious problem with video and pics. And it's cheap. Editing does not improve the quality of the video therefore it degrades it. EXAMPLE I messed with editing a number of years back and very faint vapor trail behind the object of interest disappeared in the edited version.

[SpectateSwamp]

* CamCorders should have a 8 foot cord to start and stop videoing like old time cameras had. Eliminates jigglies at beginning and end of each video clip and blurred pictures. It would also allow me to start recording with the CC and tripod held way overhead like when doing curling video. If no remote; then how about an option to start recording 1/2 second after the button is pushed and chop off the last 1/2 second from when the stop is hit, banishing the jigglies. And a profanity delay option where the last 3 seconds or so never gets recorded. That will save a lot of editing time for foul language. If there is a cheap remote then the sensor; should be on the back of the CC. 99% of the time I use the remote from behind the CamCorder.

Hah. I'm sympathetic to start stop delay because the start stop jiggle is 50% of my clip editing need. As for profanity mute your mouth.

Say you are doing video at a party. And you catch someone making out. Shutting off the camcorder quickly would save you from having to throw that clip out or editing. It would be a software thing so it shouldn't cost anything really.

[SpectateSwamp]

They are in business for profit and overpriced accessories are where they get most of it. Especially special interest accessories like mics, lights, underwater cases.

Most of what I suggest here would cost next to nothing. If just 1 manufacturer is watching, then the rest better get on board or be "out of business" and good riddance to them. Money grubbing creeps.

[SpectateSwamp]

* Kill the Digital Zoom. What a totally useless option.

I would agree but some saps would buy based on nnnx zoom. Who is at fault here? I say the saps.

Consumers aren't saps they just don't spend all their spare time on video forums. It's up to the rest of us to force the issue. The non techies need us to show the way rather that laugh at their stupidity.

[olyteddy]

* They should be powered by standard AAA batteries (Batteries not included) saving $$$.

Mallory (the battery company) made an adapter for my (now deceased) Sony Hi-8 that you could load up with AA batteries. Never used it, but was a nice emergency 'option'. There are still a lot of packs that hold AAs and have a USB port as output for charging cell phones and iGadgets.

[SpectateSwamp]

I'd like to see a camcorder with an easily removable 2.5" hard drive module in the pro-sumer price range.

Yup or a standard USB stick.
I am going to follow up with the email address and list them here. Any help with these would be appreciated. I might even do a video calling the manufacturers out to this thread. They need to be here.