New to Music Videos. Help Required.

[topsecret]

Hi, I am new to Videohelp.com though have been a regular visitor for the past 3 months. I have been making Short movies for some time now, and have been getting braver to try new techniques.

I particuarlly like the slowed down style effect used in music videos, but am not sure how to create this. I am not sure if I have to record at a lesser frame rate and convert up to the output 25fps (I live in UK) or do I decrease shutter speed and record in 25fps?

Or is it another option, where I would record at 30fps, and export it as 25fps?

I imagine, this would actually slow the entire video down, though that is not what I am wanting to do. I want it to appear as it has been slowed down, but instead is running perfectly in sync.

An example of this would be The Game - How We Do (upon entrance to the club, when the rapper can be seen performing.) His lips appear synced up, but in slow motion.

It is my first music video so all advice is welcome.

[guns1inger]

The get slow motion in-camera you need to shoot at a much faster frame rate, usually 120 fps or better, then play the footage back at normal speeds. Most cameras cannot do this, or can do it at a much lower resolution or quality than shooting at normal frame rates.

If you want to have everything in slow motion except one actor then you have a couple of choices. Have the actor work at a faster speed than everyone when filming in slow motion is one technique. When played back at normal speed they will look OK while everything around them is slower. Or shoot the scene without them, and put them in digitally afterwards with some green screen compositing.

The following clip was shot by the singer simply holding the camera in front of his face, and singing in time to a very slowed down version of the song. He then sped up the clip to get himself in sync, which in turn makes everything else looks fast.



Finally, there are ways to process normal speed footage into slow motion. Vegas has an effect called a velocity envelope that allows you to vary the speed up or down using keyframe points. This allows you to decelerate footage across a few frames, run it at slower speed for a while, then run it back to normal in a single frame.

[topsecret]

Hi. Thanks for the reply.

It is not the actual slow motion effect I want. I normally do this by recording at a higher fps, thus recoridng more frames stretched out my timeline.

What I am looking for, is to appear as if the video is slower, though infact it is not.

You are more so, on the lines, with what I am asking, with your suggestion regarding shooting the video with the guide audio at a higher percentage. Thus, the vocalist's movement will be doubly as fast naturally, but appear normal on film, if the audio he/she was lip syncing to was 200%.

I understand this concept, though I do not think that has been used on the video I recommended as a reference.

Any other suggestions?

[guns1inger]

Can you provide a link ? The version I found didn't seem to have what you described. Where they were singing in the club it was all normal speed with minimal background shown. It intercut with slow motion footage.

[topsecret]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PH34kMOjmQk

This is the link. I do not know what type of effect it can be called, but I see it in a lot of music videos. It appears as though there are frames missing, thus giving the appearance as though the video is attmepting to keep up with the audio, however they are in sync.

Another link, and probably better would be:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m9fUYcxP1UA

[Baldrick]

Your youtubes direct in the post(just click on the to insert youtube links) :

[topsecret]

Example, what gives the above videos there difference from say:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iNGAs4EcpOQ

Obviously not talking about software effects, and colourisation etc.

I'm talking about frame rate, and shutter speed particuarly.

[guns1inger]

I can't watch the second clip here - not available in my country.

As for the first clip - that is the one I found earlier, and I cannot see the effect you are describing - at what timecode is it ?

[filmboss80]

To shoot music videos off-speed, and yet have picture and sound in sync when played back in real time, you have to break both picture and sound down to the same mathematical equation. To get slow motion visuals, you shoot at a higher speed, say twice the normal speed. But in order to keep lip sync, a performer would need to sing along to the music played back at twice the speed. Then, when that video portion is slowed back down and played back at half its recorded speed, you will get slow motion imagery with the singer's lips moving in time with normal-speed music.

The video examples you provided had very little of this. The singers recorded at normal speed, and that footage was intercut with slow motion b-roll. Nothing spectacular.

Your only problem is in trying to shoot off-speed with consumer or prosumer cameras. (Back when I was producing music videos, I always acquired the off-speed footage with 16mm movie cameras.) You would need to rent high speed digital cinema equipment (like the packages offered by Panavision) to do what the filmmakers in your YouTube links accomplished.

[jagabo]

What I saw in the first video was a mix of slow motion shots interspersed with normal speed shots where the lips matched the singing. The entire video was sped up from 24 fps to 30 fps by duplicating one frame out of every 4.

[topsecret]

Ok, I understand everything being said. I'm just trying to understand the difference betwteen shooting and achieving these results.

My main background has been filming short programmes, where motion is realistic to natural motion. E.G Any TV series

Though I think, the motion capture in the videos at normal speed is still extremely different to that of those captured in a TV series.

Would you not agree?

[jagabo]

Though I think, the motion capture in the videos at normal speed is still extremely different to that of those captured in a TV series.

They are 24 frame per second film (like most movies), not 60 field per second video, if that's what you mean. And, of course, the average shot is less than a second long.

[topsecret]

I think that's exacctly where my question lies. I'm used to recording everything in 25fps, as opposed to the 60 field per second or 30fps you stated.

But yes, the footage I pickup looks a lot different to the motion capture shown in the videos.

Mines appears a lot more natural. Like a home-movie "natural", so that is why I wonder why the motion appears so different.

[filmboss80]

Though I think, the motion capture in the videos at normal speed is still extremely different to that of those captured in a TV series.

Beyond looking at frames per second, take the time to examine how shutter speed affects the perception of motion in video. Do some experiments of your own by shooting footage at different shutter speeds -- all while maintaining the 25fps frame rate.

Also, there are many, many other factors that will affect the overall look of the video, including lens configuration, lighting, filtering, etc. But for now, start with the shutter. Check your camcorder owner's manual to see how to manually adjust the shutter. A wide, slow shutter (lets say 1/25) will give you smooth, blurry motion, while a narrow, fast shutter (1/1000, for example) will give you sharper motion, frame-by-frame. (Consumer camcorders set in "Sports Mode" use a preset, faster shutter speed, for example.) Again, I am not talking about frame rate. Shutter speed is something separate.

Also, going back to a previous post: don't expect a consumer camcorder to give you the same results as digital cinema equipment.

[topsecret]

Thanks, for all suggestions. I'll have a play around during the weekend with shutter speed, and see what results I come up with. Thanks for all suggestions. Any more are always welcome.

[filmboss80]

A quick search yielded a video on the making of "Fall for Your Type."

http://shavarross.com/2010/12/07/behind-the-scenes-jamie-foxx-fall-for-your-type-video/

Notice the motion in the first scene (the argument between the girl and Jamie Foxx). That is a prime example of a fast shutter. When played back at a slower speed, there is no motion blurring. When played back at normal speed, there is a sense of hyper motion. It's all in the shutter, my friend.

Plus: here is a link for one production house that is doing music videos with a modified Panasonic DVC PRO HD HVX-200. (Check out their "Featured Project" link to see the results.)

http://www.ampfilmstudios.com/music_videos.html

[jagabo]

I'm used to recording everything in 25fps

More likely 50 fields per second (25 interlaced frames per second). Hence the smoothness. You can deinterlace that to get the jerkiness of 25 fps.

[topsecret]

No, I defientaly mean 25fps. You are right though, it is 50i.

I think you meant 25p, at the end, as opposeed to 25fps, which u wrote.

I'm already recording at 25fps, 50 interlaced fields.

Unless my understanding is wrong, which i hope not

[jagabo]

In the old days they were called 25p and 25i. In both, digital frames are stored at 25 frames per second. But 25i contained two half pictures per frame and each half picture was displayed separately on interlaced displays -- 50 fields per second. Marketing decided to start calling 25i 50i because they think bigger numbers look better. But they are the same thing.

[topsecret]

thanks for that. thats actually cleared up quite a lot.

yes, so i would normally be recording in 25i. Is this a possible reason (along with others, such as shutter speed etc) that maybe effecting why I can get my movies to look similar to the music video effect. Also, yes, I do not own a cinematic camera.

But a great camera none the less. Canon mk ii

[topsecret]

Ok, so is there a difference then between 1080p25 and 1080p50, if 50i is the same as 25i?

[topsecret]

A quick search yielded a video on the making of "Fall for Your Type."

http://shavarross.com/2010/12/07/behind-the-scenes-jamie-foxx-fall-for-your-type-video/

Notice the motion in the first scene (the argument between the girl and Jamie Foxx). That is a prime example of a fast shutter. When played back at a slower speed, there is no motion blurring. When played back at normal speed, there is a sense of hyper motion. It's all in the shutter, my friend.

Plus: here is a link for one production house that is doing music videos with a modified Panasonic DVC PRO HD HVX-200. (Check out their "Featured Project" link to see the results.)

http://www.ampfilmstudios.com/music_videos.html

Hi filmboss,

i watched the links u sent over. thanks for that. regarding the second link, and the feature project, this is what i am talking about. it has been recorded at normal speed, but when played back looks seemingly slower, but still in sync. So is this simply shutter speed that is causing this?

[jagabo]

Ok, so is there a difference then between 1080p25 and 1080p50, if 50i is the same as 25i?

1080p25 has 25 frames per second. 1080p50 has 50 frames per second.

[topsecret]

So 50i is the same as 25i, though 50p is not the same as 25p?

That's what I read from the information you have given.

Sorry, if I am losing you here. Just need to be sure.

[jagabo]

So 50i is the same as 25i, though 50p is not the same as 25p?

Yes, that's correct.

[edDV]

50i and 25i are the same thing.

In both cases, fields and hence motion samples update at 1/50th sec rate.

Two fields merge to a frame at 25 fps rate, or individual fields can be interpolated to frames for a 50p rate. This is how an HDTV processes 50i/25i to 50p for display.

[topsecret]

50i and 25i are the same thing.

In both cases, fields and hence motion samples update at 1/50th sec rate.

Two fields merge to a frame at 25 fps rate, or individual fields can be interpolated to frames for a 50p rate. This is how an HDTV processes 50i/25i to 50p for display.

Ok, I understand now. Thanks. Long day. Lots of information