AVC H.264 MP4s displayed black by VirtualDub upon drag'n'drop

[bulgom]

Hi,

What's wrong with "VirtualDub + MP4InputDriver.vdplugin + FFDShow" ?

Why are my MP4 videos displayed black on VD interface ?

After a very simple edit session, just to clean my H.264 MP4s – as a test, anyway –, VD lets me save them in Direct stream copy *, which is just what I want...

[ * as long as I open them by drag'n'drop on VD ]

EXCEPT that... I don't find too convenient to edit video without seeing its frames !

~~~~~~~~~~~~

So :

I get a black display instead of video in VirtualDub 1.9.11 (under Win XP) when opening "Sanyo Xacti CG9" MP4 files by drag'n'drop – which are actually AVC1 H.234 + AAC audio natively camcoded (according to "MediaInfo").

I have "FFDShow" installed ; + "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" in VD "plugins32" folder. Wether I keep or remove "Quicktime.vdplugin" from "plugins32" folder makes no difference.

Now, when I open the same "Xacti" MP4 files thru "DShowInputDriver.vdplugin", they display alright – BUT, then :

VD won't accept to save my edits in Direct stream copy. And I want to use the Direct stream mode (needless to explain why : speed & no quality loss), at least to quick clean the videos in the first place (I may re-encode later, but that's not the question).


Again, the reason why I want to drag'n'drop is : Direct stream. As, in THAT case only (as long as "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" is present), I'm able to save in Direct stream mode. And the result is NOT a black video.



Should I mention there's some kind of "emergency" option ? But somehow more difficult to explain to my little sister (who finds it tedious, in her turn, to explain to the cat), which consists in enclosing the "Xacti" MP4s in an MKV container first (with "MKV Toolnix")...

... as those MKVs open + display just fine in VD AND by drag'n'drop (with "Matroska.vdplugin" in "plugins32" folder, of course) ; and will save as AVIs, in Direct stream mode.

But "well", it's one more processing, though fast, that I'd rather avoid if possible, as I'm talking – in fact – about a LOT of hours of video...



So, if anyone here understands my problem, thank you very much in advance for your advice. I've tried all the "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" versions I could find...

All I want is to be able to open H.264 MP4s in VD and (work +) save in Direct stream mode – with no intermediate MKV file – while... SEEING the video stream.

I mean : as I edit it (I know that VD does not display it while saving, unless Full processing etc.).


Bulgom



.

[davexnet]

Don't know why VD with it's mp4 plugin is giving a black frame - perhaps you should contact the developer of the plugin.
In the meantime, have you tried AVIdemux ?
Set the audio and video to "copy" and set the container to MP4. Use the A and B marker to set the cut points.

[ale5000]

The mp4 input plugin is unfinished and discontinued, you can remove it (if you don't remove it then the other plugin won't be used) and use the Quicktime plugin to open mp4 files, you can get the list of all input plugins here: http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=19488

[davexnet]

Thanks for the update about the mp4 plug-in.

[jagabo]

I use the Directshow plugin to open MP4 files.

[bulgom]

Hi,

Thanks for the answers.


— Yes, I know and use AviDemux. But here, I'd rather stick to VirtualDub, as (in this case) I'm working on a bunch of videos with partners...

And, though quite simple, using AviDemux yet needs to be explained to newbies who are used to VirtualDub... "Plus" they have already reported crashes on "large" MP4 files ( > 150 MB)...


— I use "DShowInputDriver.vdplugin" too - but, here again - what I need is "Direct stream copy" mode. And VirtualDub will only save in "Direct stream" after opening AVC MP4s by drag'n'drop (which calls "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin", it seems).

When I open such files thru "DShowInputDriver", they display OK (not black, anymore), but then, only "Full processing mode" is allowed...


— "Quicktime.vdplugin" opens QT (.mov) files OK, but won't open any AVC MP4 (error msg. !), even after deleting "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" (as advised by some posts on this forum)...


— Contact "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" author ? OK, I should consider that "option" ; though, since it's unfinished and discontinued, I doubt I'd get an answer...


B.



.

[poisondeathray]

Are you sure you can use direct stream copy with any of the input drivers? I though all of the input drivers required decompression ?

[davexnet]

Have you tried a recent release of Avidemux ? The programs is updated quite often.

You mentioned direct stream in Virtualdub, what changes to the video are you making? You said above "to clean"
Do you mean to use some filters? If that's the case, you must user "full processing".

Or are you talking about simply trimming off a few frames?

[jagabo]

— I use "DShowInputDriver.vdplugin" too - but, here again - what I need is "Direct stream copy" mode. And VirtualDub will only save in "Direct stream" after opening AVC MP4s by drag'n'drop (which calls "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin", iy seems).

That is correct. The DS driver always decodes to uncompressed frames. Unfortunately, the MP4 driver is borked.

— "Quicktime.vdplugin" opens QT (.mov) files OK, but won't open any AVC MP4

Have you tried using the "Ask for extended options..." option when opening with the QT driver? Quicktime has been bansished from my computers but I seem to recall that it could open h.264 MP4 files if you changed some of the options (video decoder mode). I don't think Direct Stream Copy works with it though.

[DarrellS]

You need the quicktime.vdplugin in plugins folder and quicktime.ini in the Virtualdub root folder. You also need either quicktime alternative or quicktime installed on your machine. Open a MP4 using File > Open video file > choose "Ask for extended options and choose 3:ICM Decomp and Audio mode 1:Enabled and choose Save to quicktime.ini. After that, you can drag and drop to open mp4 files. As mentioned above, you'll need to get rid of the MP4input plugin which is broken and abandoned and conflicts with the quicktime input plugin.

As far as I know, you can't direct stream copy an mp4 file in Virtualdub. The source video stream uses a compression algorithm that is not compatible with AVI files. Direct stream copy cannot be used with this video stream.

You can direct stream copy an mkv file though. Use mkvmerge to merge the mp4 into an mkv container and use the mkvinput plugin from fcchandler. You'll also want to install the aac input plugin from fcchandler (and any other plugins from him) and ffshow set to open H264/AVC video.

Once you've created you're AVC/AAC AVI then use mkvmerge to merge it into an mkv container. If you want it in an mp4 container then you'll need to open the mkv in mp4box or yamb since they don't support H264/AAC in an AVI container.

[ale5000]

Are you sure you can use direct stream copy with any of the input drivers? I though all of the input drivers required decompression ?

You can use direct stream copy with most of them (but not all).

MPEG-2 => direct stream copy video: NO, direct stream copy audio: YES with the option enabled in the extended options
Matroska, FLV, Windows Media, AC3 => direct stream copy: YES
DirectShow, FLIC, QuickTime, Redcode => direct stream copy: NO

PS: The Matroska plugin can direct stream copy also MPEG-2 video and Vorbis audio from MKV.

[ale5000]

— "Quicktime.vdplugin" opens QT (.mov) files OK, but won't open any AVC MP4 (error msg. !), even after deleting "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" (as advised by some posts on this forum)...

If it doesn't work for you I suggest to uninstall all versions of QuickTime/QuickTime Alternative and then install this: http://www.filehippo.com/download_quicktime_alternative/

[jagabo]

Quicktime on Windows is an abomination. I would use the remux to MKV then remux to AVI technique outlined by DarrellS.

[ale5000]

I think that Quicktime is an abomination on every OS but QuickTime Alternative/QuickTime Lite are a lot more clean.

PS: However the remux to MKV is still the best option

[jagabo]

I think that Quicktime is an abomination on every OS but QuickTime Alternative is a lot more clean.

Yes, but it's the same splitters and decoders with same problems. At least you don't have to install the player with QT Alternative.

[bulgom]

Hi,

Thanks again, & very much, for the – stack of – answers / solutions !

_________________

poisondeathray Are you sure you can use direct stream copy with any of the input drivers ? I thought all of the input drivers required decompression ?

- - - - - - - - -

With ANY of the input drivers ? I would not bet on that. But I'm positive about this :

opening ("Sanyo Xacti CG9" camcorder files anyway) AVC+AAC MP4 contained videos and saving them after trimming, is possible in VD Direct stream mode...

... as long as I open them by drag'n'drop (not thru File > Open > "DShowInputDriver") / otherwise, I wouldn't care : I'm not a "drag'n'drop addict", but I sure became a "Direct stream freak"...

... And knowing that they display... black at VD INTERFACE * ! Nevertheless, VD (1.9.11) accepts to save any section or the whole file, in Direct stream. The result is NOT a black video, but exactly what I did extract (in full color / no garbles ["Xacti" AVCs = K-frames only] + sound OK).

* And that's why it's frustrating. Somehow, we're "almost there" ! Saving in Direct stream works, saved videos work & display fine... BUT I would have to "edit" a stream displayed... black (gasp ! not easy).

[ BTW, in case one would wonder about the AAC audio stream of those AVC videos : drag'n'dropping on VD does not work.

So far **, I have to : click Audio > Audio from other file (and leave the audio "Direct stream" option checked) > Open > select THE (exact same) video I just dropped > choose "DShowInputDriver" (I have FFDshow installed, of course) > and finally click that video, in order to have VD (re)mux that audio stream with the video stream. ]

[ ** Will try DarrellS' advice, though. ]

Tedious ; but well, I made up my mind to not complain about everything at once... And, what happens to that audio stream upon video trimming ? Though it was not opened by drag'n'drop, it just follows : it's trimmed OK + saved in Direct stream (I guess), along the video, with no desync. ]

_________________

davexnet Have you tried a recent release of Avidemux ? The programs is updated quite often. You mentioned direct stream in Virtualdub, what changes to the video are you making? You said above "to clean". Do you mean to use some filters? If that's the case, you must user "full processing". Or are you talking about simply trimming off a few frames?

- - - - - - - - -

Avidemux 2.5.4.

And I confirm some of the crashes that were reported to me, after I advised partners to try that program (that I still appreciate & use). For instance, every time I accept "re-indexing" the AVC videos and "use an other + more stable mode" (since Avidemux displays those warnings on opening H.264 files).

On the other hand, Avidemux cuts and pastes flawlessly, where VD cut'n'paste function does not always work well (or at all).

Of course, I meant : no filter(ing) whatsoever. So : simply trimming off some, and often large sections of frames, yes. I have no problem opening those videos thru "DShowInputDriver" (in Full processing mode). But for now, what I'm after is no (re-)encoding.

_________________

jagabo That is correct. The DS driver always decodes to uncompressed frames. Unfortunately, the MP4 driver is broked. Have you tried using the "Ask for extended options..." option when opening with the QT driver? Quicktime has been bansished from my computers but I seem to recall that it could open h.264 MP4 files if you changed some of the options (video decoder mode). I don't think Direct Stream Copy works with it though.

- - - - - - - - -

Wish the developper would wake up + fix... But usually, "unfinished and DISCONTINUED + ABANDONED" means... what it means.

Yes, I tried "Extended options". It did not work. I don't remember very clearly either, as, whenever I install "QT Alternative", it's always for a short while (for instance, when required by a site).

And the official "QT", never anymore (can't stand it / almost as lousy as "RealMedia" stuff). Of course, if it had let me save in Direct stream, I would remember, and I would have kept it.

_________________

DarrellS You need the quicktime.vdplugin in plugins folder and quicktime.ini in the Virtualdub root folder. You also need either quicktime alternative or quicktime installed on your machine. Open a MP4 using File > Open video file > choose "Ask for extended options and choose 3:ICM Decomp and Audio mode 1:Enabled and choose Save to quicktime.ini. After that, you can drag and drop to open mp4 files. As mentioned above, you'll need to get rid of the MP4input plugin which is broken and abandoned and conflicts with the quicktime input plugin.

As far as I know, you can't direct stream copy an mp4 file in Virtualdub. The source video stream uses a compression algorithm that is not compatible with AVI files. Direct stream copy cannot be used with this video stream.

You can direct stream copy an mkv file though. Use mkvmerge to merge the mp4 into an mkv container and use the mkvinput plugin from fcchandler. You'll also want to install the aac input plugin from fcchandler (and any other plugins from him) and ffshow set to open H264/AVC video.

Once you've created your AVC/AAC AVI, then use mkvmerge to merge it into an mkv container. If you want it in an mp4 container then you'll need to open the mkv in mp4box or yamb since they don't support H264/AAC in an AVI container.

- - - - - - - - -

I think I tried everything you advise, except "aac plugin" and "mp4box or yamb".

But MAY BE it was before I had installed "QT Alt" (I'm not sure anymore ; though I usually report problems AFTER trying solutions I find on forums). Now, if I reversed the order, I understand it couldn't work. So I should double check.

But anyway, as I explained above, my point is not beeing able to open by drag'n'drop (that works), but : see the video stream I trim in VD in Direct stream mode (knowing that VD accepts to direct stream AVC videos only when opening them upon drag'n'drop).

Yes, as mentioned as "some emergency option" in my (very) first post, I know I can direct stream with VD from an mkv file – and that works well ; + "MKV Toolnix" is very handy.

So that's exactly what I've been doing ; but I can't always convince my partners to do so, as they're (even) lazier than me. That's why I really hoped to provide them with as simple and direct a solution as :

"open 'Xacti' videos straight in VD > trim > save real FAST and lossless". Plus : although converting to mkv is effortless, in case of many heavy files, it requires twice as much disk space.

THANKS for the "aac input plugin from fcchandler" and "mp4box or yamb" hints.

I guess that the "aac plugin" is the "ACM" one I saw – and hesitated about, since it requires installation. But I'll try it, if it can save me from opening the AAC stream of my AVCs thru "DShowInputDriver" (?).

About "then you'll need to open the 'mkv' in mp4box", I suppose you meant "AVIs" instead of "mkv" (?), since VD outputs AVIs only. I'll try that, as I'd rather avoid AVC+AAC in an AVI container anyway (not recommended, according to what I read).

_________________

ale5000 If it doesn't work for you I suggest to uninstall all versions of QuickTime/QuickTime Alternative and then install this: http://www.filehippo.com/download_quicktime_alternative/download/fd9124ffee8719472e3f8d98d7dd7e55/


/// I think that Quicktime is an abomination on every OS but QuickTime Alternative is a lot more clean. PS: However the remux to MKV is still the best option
_________________

jagabo Quicktime on Windows is an abomination. I would use the remux to MKV then remux to AVI technique outlined by DarrellS.

/// Yes, but it's the same splitters and decoders with same problems. At least you don't have to install the player with QT Alternative.

- - - - - - - - -

OK. Though any "QT" version including "Alt" gives me the hiccups, I'll test that also. Once both solutions fully tested, I'll choose the most efficient and/or easiest...

... until someone comes up with a GOOD "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" ? >

_________________


—— Thanks a lot, again, for all those quite thorough / detailed answers.

B.



.

[jagabo]

Open Xacti MP4 file with MMG (part of MkvToolnix). Save as MKV. Open MKV in VirtualDub. Video -> Direct Stream Copy. Edit away. Save as AVI. I have a few MP4 files (AVC+ACC) from other Xacti models and that procedure works with them.

[DarrellS]

About "then you'll need to open the 'mkv' in mp4box", I suppose you meant "AVIs" instead of "mkv" (?), since VD outputs AVIs only. I'll try that, as I'd rather avoid AVC+AAC in an AVI container anyway (not recommended, according to what I read).

No. I mean't you'll have to convert your MP4 to MKV > edit the MKV in VDUB which can direct stream copy MKV > Convert the AVI you direct stream copied from the MKV in VDUB back to an MKV so that you can convert it back to MP4 because Yamb and MP4Box do not support the AVI files from VDUB.

OK. Though any "QT" version including "Alt" gives me the hiccups, I'll test that also. Once both solutions fully tested, I'll choose the most efficient and/or easiest...

You have to use one or the other or you will not be able to open the file with the QT plugin. I prefer quicktime alternative since QT player is spyware and almost impossible to completely remove from your system once installed.

.

Again, Virtualdub will not direct stream copy MP4 with the QTplugin so you will have to mux into an MKV container before editing if you plan on direct stream copying the files. If your partners don't want to bother with the extra steps that have to be done to accomplish this then they can use Avidemux to direct stream copy into an MP4 container which is what it should be anyway. AVC/AAC doesn't belong in an AVI container.

Another option, but it is not free (around $100) is to use VideoRedo 4 that supports AVC/AAC MP4 and uses Smart Render to create the finished file.

[ale5000]

To my experience I always get bad avi files by remuxing with Avidemux.

I'd rather avoid AVC+AAC in an AVI container anyway

They may be not recommended but they works really well if the application write them correctly.


You should try the ACM codecs listed here: http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.php?act=ST&f=7&t=19488
In particular the ones for AAC, AC3 and WMA work really well.

[bulgom]

Hi,

So, if not all, I tested several solutions.

_________________


jagabo Open Xacti MP4 file with MMG (part of MkvToolnix). Save as MKV. Open MKV in VirtualDub. Video -> Direct Stream Copy. Edit away. Save as AVI. I have a few MP4 files (AVC+AAC) from other Xacti models * and that procedure works with them.

* Works with old "Xacti CG9" AVCs just as well.

- - - - - - - - -

OK, that's what I've been doing anyway. So I'll stick to that procedure.

_________________

Also tried "mp4box & yamb", to switch back to MP4, once VD has saved AVI contained AVCs (DarrellS' advice) :

"Yamb" didn't work, even with simple test XviD + MP3 files. And the "My MP4Box GUI" requires "NetFramework", heavy 3.5 version : can't stand NetFramework...

But at least, the basic "mp4box" command line version worked OK ; except... I know I'll never convince the people I work with to use command lines...

OK : I understand NOW ! I had skipped one step ** :

DarrellS No. I meant you'll have to convert your MP4 to MKV > edit the MKV in VDUB which can direct stream copy MKV > ** CONVERT THE AVI YOU DIRECT STREAM COPIED FROM THE MKV IN VDUB BACK TO AN MKV so that you can convert it back to MP4 because Yamb and MP4Box do not support the AVI files from VDUB.

I'll try Yamb AGAIN, this time without skipping the "convert the avi you direct stream copied from the mkv in vdub back to an mkv" step

You have to use one or the other or you will not be able to open the file with the QT plugin. I prefer quicktime alternative since QT player is spyware and almost impossible to completely remove from your system once installed.

I don't ever install or use official QT either anyway. Now, "QT Alt" didn't work, but "QT Lite" did. See below.

_________________


jagabo Again, Virtualdub will not direct stream copy MP4 with the QTplugin – Yep, it's been made very clear : if I don't know by now, I will never know ; again : that's what I was doing way before posting here and, at the time, hoping to find a more direct solution – so you will have to mux into an MKV container before editing if you plan on direct stream copying the files.

If your partners don't want to bother with the extra steps that have to be done to accomplish this then they can use Avidemux to direct stream copy into an MP4 container which is what it should be anyway. AVC/AAC doesn't belong in an AVI container.

Another option, but it is not free (around $100) is to use VideoRedo 4 that supports AVC/AAC MP4 and uses Smart Render to create the finished file. We'll see about that...

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

ale5000 To my experience I always get bad avi files by remuxing with Avidemux. – So did I... –

AVC+AAC in AVI container may be not recommended BUT THEY WORK REALLY WELL IF THE APPLICATION WRITES THEM CORRECTLY *** :


*** OK, took note.


You should try the ACM codecs listed here: http://forums.virtualdub.org/index.p...ST&f=7&t=19488
In particular the ones for AAC, AC3 and WMA work really well.

I did.


_________________


OK : " r e p o r t "
After all the advice I received here !..



Installed "QT LITE" - and I confirm (of course) : "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" conflicts with "Quicktime.vdplugin", and even takes over :

when "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" is in "pugins32" VD subfolder, drag'n'drop "opens" AVC videos black, again. As soon as it's removed, drag'n'drop opens them alright, as longs as :

"QT LITE" is installed. But, in MY case anyway, not "QT Alt" : I only got an error msg., with "QT Alt" : not on QT .mov files, on AVC+AAC MP4 files only...


"Ask for extended options (etc.)" settings that work for me happen to be different than advised by DarrellS though :

– Colorspace 0:RGB24 ;

– Video Decoder Mode : 0:Movies task (instead of "3:ICM Decomp", that don't work, or wrong colors) ;
– Audio Decoder Mode : 1:Enabled.


And... AT LAST (!), AVC videos open OK in VD, BOTH by drag'n'drop AND File > Open > "Quicktime.vdplugin". So far so good.


BUT – and AS EXPECTED + explained several times here : no Direct stream copy allowed, of course.

[ Direct stream copying seems to be supported by "MP4InputDriver.vdplugin" ONLY, which opens AVC videos black. ]


I also get this warning :

[!] Input driver plugin "Q" returned to VirtualDub with the CPU's MMX unit still active. This indicates a bug in that module which could cause application instability. Please check with the module vendor for an updated version which addresses this problem. (Trap location: .\source\InputFilePlugin.cpp:577)

So (all in all), that's... some improvement !


OK, I'll stick to MKV conversion first. And will try again to talk my partners (at least some of them) into "MKV Toolnix"-conversion-in-the-1st-place – since it's an easy step.



Thanks again for ALL your help.

B.



.

[ale5000]

The author of the QuickTime input plugin has said that he want to update it but don't expect an update so soon.

I also get this warning :

[!] Input driver plugin "Q" returned to VirtualDub with the CPU's MMX unit still active. This indicates a bug in that module which could cause application instability. Please check with the module vendor for an updated version which addresses this problem. (Trap location: .\source\InputFilePlugin.cpp:577)

Where do you get this?
In which circumstances it happens?

PS: "QuickTime Lite" is just a newer version of "QuickTime Alternative".

[jagabo]

– Video Decoder Mode : 0:Movies task (instead of "3:ICM Decomp", that don't work, or wrong colors) ;

It's been a long time since I used the Qt input filter -- but as I recall, I usually had to use "Movies task" too.

[bulgom]

Hi,

about :

[!] Input driver plugin "Q" returned to VirtualDub with the CPU's MMX unit still active. This indicates a bug in that module which could cause application instability. Please check with the module vendor for an updated version which addresses this problem. (Trap location: .\source\InputFilePlugin.cpp:577)

ale5000 Where do you get this? In which circumstances it happens?



"QT Lite" being installed, and "Quicktime.vdplugin" present (of course) in VD "plugins32" subfolder :

when I drag'n'drop a "Sanyo Xacti CG9" AVC (AVC H.264) file on VD interface, a (VD) window displays that warning, before opening the video.

When opening the video file by VD menu "File > Open > Quicktime.vdplugin", the same window + msg. displays.


Anyway, I just click OK + don't pay anymore attention, as the video still opens OK in VD...



ale5000 PS: "QuickTime Lite" is just a newer version of "QuickTime Alternative".


OK. "QT Lite" just happened to work (for me), where "QT Alt" did not – but I know I was using an old 1.4.6 "QT Alt" version (if that may be the reason)...



B.