Will there be a difference in output quality?

[ingeborgdot]

So, even if it capture 16gb it will put it to 5.8? I will learn I guess.
What do you recommend using?

[edDV]

So, even if it capture 16gb it will put it to 5.8? I will learn I guess.
What do you recommend using?

DV has a fixed video bitrate @ 25Mb/s. Audio is extra. Stereo PCM takes it up to about 27Mb/s.

A 16 GB DV file would hold about 1hr 17min.

1hr 17 min of MPeg2 at max DVD bitrate calculates to about 5.6 GB usage on a dual layer DVD-10.

Total DVD-10 capacity is 8.75 GB.

[ingeborgdot]

Ok, with the new vegas I am getting I have another question about the rendering before going to DVD A.
Vegas rendering settings for a DVD
Here is the knowledge base question and answer but I need a little more help.


Question
If I plan to burn my Vegas project using DVD Architect, what render settings should I use in Vegas?
Answer


If you are rendering from Vegas for use in DVD Architect, in the Render As window, select "MainConcept MPEG 2" in the Save As Type field. Then select the "DVD Architect NTSC video stream" template in the Template field below the Save As Type field. This template will only encode the video stream, so you will have to render a second time to encode the audio stream.

When you choose Render As for the audio stream, select one of the two formats that DVD Architect will use for encoding the audio stream in the save as type field:

- Dolby Digital AC-3 (*.ac3) and for Template, choose "Stereo or 5.1 Surround" (you will only see one of these options, which reflect what your project properties are set to).

- Wave (Microsoft) (*.wav) and for Template choose "48,000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo, PCM wave file".

Also, make sure you render both files to the same folder with the same name. If you do this, when you import the video stream into DVD Architect, the audio steam will import automatically.
I don't understand about the rendering twice? How will I do this? Is there something special I need to do? Could anyone further explain and help this ignorant fool. I feel so stupid sometimes. Thanks.

[ingeborgdot]

Does anyone have an answer to the rendering question? I will have to render twice?

[edDV]

It just means you render first for video, (e.g. DVD Architect MPeg2 template with modified bitrate)


And then again for AC3 audio.


Use the same file name for both

[ingeborgdot]

Ok. So I go in like I would normally render. Save as and find mainconcept. Then do just the video rendering. Then after that is completed go back again and render just the audio but save it to the same file. Is it best to render in AC3 or pcm? I will learn a lot more after tonight when I play with my new 8.1 for vista 64 bit vegas. Thanks for all your help edDV.

[fredfillis]

Architect likes AC3

[edDV]

... Then after that is completed go back again and render just the audio but save it to the same file.

Same file name.

Video file will be name.mpg
Audio file will be name.ac3

Is it best to render in AC3 or pcm? I will learn a lot more after tonight when I play with my new 8.1 for vista 64 bit vegas. Thanks for all your help edDV.

PCM is uncompressed and will take bitrate away from video. AC3 is compressed but still high quality and will allow more bitrate for video. AC3 can also be multi-channel.

[ingeborgdot]

So when I go into dvd arch. and retrieve the file from vegas will I have to import video then audio? I know I will find out more tonight when I start but it's always good to have an idea first. I do understand most now.

[edDV]

So when I go into dvd arch. and retrieve the file from vegas will I have to import video then audio? I know I will find out more tonight when I start but it's always good to have an idea first. I do understand most now.

You just import the audio and video files into the project. If they are in DVD spec, there will be no recode.

[ingeborgdot]

Ok, I seem to be having problems with the mainconcept render. Here is what it says.
Sony Vegas Pro 8.1
Version 8.1 (Build 171) 64-bit
Exception 0xC0000005 (access violation) READ:0x0000000000000018 IP:0x00000001803B30D7
In Module 'vegas81k.dll' at Address 0x0000000180000000 + 0x00000000003B30D7
Thread: GUI ID=0x8D58 Stack=
I am sure no one understands this but this is it. I will have to do the windows avi tonight until I get tech support.

[edDV]

I don't know. I use the 32bit version.

I'd uninstall, reinstall.

[ingeborgdot]

I closed the program out and tried again and it worked. I will contact sony to see what they think about the issue.

I do have some more questions now though. I hope you can answer them. What is the purpose of the mainconcept mpeg2 and not avi for windows?
When I do the mainconcept do I need to do a custom setting. I see you have and your avg bps is set to 9,000,000. Why did you set it to that setting? I don't see a vbr like you have??
My avi capture was 15gb but my video render was only 3gb. What is the reason to cut it down 5x?
My other question is when I would save it to windows avi my vegas chapters would transfer to dvd arch. With the mainconcept transfer it does not. Do you know why?

[edDV]

I closed the program out and tried again and it worked. I will contact sony to see what they think about the issue.

I do have some more questions now though. I hope you can answer them. What is the purpose of the mainconcept mpeg2 and not avi for windows?
When I do the mainconcept do I need to do a custom setting. I see you have and your avg bps is set to 9,000,000. Why did you set it to that setting? I don't see a vbr like you have??
My avi capture was 15gb but my video render was only 3gb. What is the reason to cut it down 5x?

We went through this above. Your camcorder and edit settings use DV format which has a 25 Mb/s bit rate. That is too high quality for the DVD standard. DVD uses MPeg2 which is compressed (by the MainConcept MPeg Encoder). The DVD standard limits total bitrare (video+audio) to about 9.57 Mb/s (9570 Kbps).

You started out complaining that default settings produce a lower quality result than your DV original. Vegas defaults the "Render As" DVD export to 6Mb/s VBR which is fine for TV captures or professionally shot video but low for home camcorder material. So I suggested you use the custom settings to boost average video bitrate to 9000-9500 Kb/s. This will require using MPeg or AC3 audio to lower audio bitrate to 224 Kb/s. Uncompressed PCM stereo audio uses 1536 Kb/s thus limits video to around 8000 Kb/s.

If you don't want a DVD, you can export to a DV-AVI* file and keep the higher DV standard. The file will render much larger than a DVD can accept.

If you export to uncompressed AVI the file will be much larger than DV-AVI with no increase in quality.

My other question is when I would save it to windows avi my vegas chapters would transfer to dvd arch. With the mainconcept transfer it does not. Do you know why?

I'm not following. Normally you would use the MPeg2 then "DVD Architect MPeg2 6Mbps" default to allow transfer of markers to chapters. You would then enter custom settings to raise the video bitrate. Here is the default under "Render As"




* In Vegas you get to DV-AVI by selecting "Video for Windows (*.AVI)", then "NTSC DV" or "NTSC DV Widescreen"

[ingeborgdot]

Ok, I am beginning to understand. It just is what it is. You can only get so much bit rate.
I still am a little confused about why the chapters I made in vegas do not show up in DVD Arch.. They did on my other ones but not when I used mainconcept. I will keep playing and try to figure it out. I do appreciate your time and patience. Thanks a bunch.

[edDV]

Ok, I am beginning to understand. It just is what it is. You can only get so much bit rate.
I still am a little confused about why the chapters I made in vegas do not show up in DVD Arch.. They did on my other ones but not when I used mainconcept. I will keep playing and try to figure it out. I do appreciate your time and patience. Thanks a bunch.

Did you use the DVD Architect template as shown above? The resulting MPG file will carry imbedded chapter data.

NOTE: The check box for "Save project markers in media file" must be selected.

[ingeborgdot]

You must remember that I am pretty ignorant sometimes. I did do it again and it worked. I have been working on it all day and am getting the hang of it.

[lordsmurf]

This stuff takes many steps. I often forget how to use software for some things that is only done a few times per year. It's complicated, even when you're referred to as an "expert" by people.

Don't be too hard on yourself, just keep at it until you get it right. You've got a good attitude.

[ingeborgdot]

Ed, about your screen capture of your render as. You also have render loop region only. This is another silly question. I may have missed your explanation but why?

[edDV]

That means only the loop region (blue bar) is rendered.

[ingeborgdot]

So I don't need to render the whole project? Or do I need to add the loop to the whole project? It has worked without that. I am sure I will figure out what is meant by that. I will continue to work and read.

[edDV]

So I don't need to render the whole project? Or do I need to add the loop to the whole project? It has worked without that. I am sure I will figure out what is meant by that. I will continue to work and read.

If you uncheck the box it renders the project. If you check the box, only the blue selected area will render (encode) to MPeg2.

[ingeborgdot]

But do I not need to render the entire project?

[edDV]

But do I not need to render the entire project?

Eventually but you may want to test different bit rates on the tough segments (e.g. high motion, camera shake or low light) before rendering the whole thing. When you want to render it all, you can highlight it all or deselect loop render.

[ingeborgdot]

Now you lost me. On tough segments do you want to or not want to render? If you don't render what will happen? Man ed you keep making it tougher on me all the time and make me feel more stupid.

[edDV]

Now you lost me. On tough segments do you want to or not want to render? If you don't render what will happen? Man ed you keep making it tougher on me all the time and make me feel more stupid.

This seems like a test.

You use higher bit rates for consumer hand held video because it is difficult to encode due to camera shake, excessive pan and zoom plus poor exposure in bright or low light. When you choose a bit rate, you first test it on the toughest scenes. Or you just floor it and encode CBR near max bit rate (lowest minutes on disc) and take what you get.

At the end you render (encode) the whole timeline at the chosen bitrate. Many try to fit a single layer DVD but you have already chosen dual layer and have extra capacity. So go ahead and render it all at 9000-9500 ave. and AC3 or Mpg audio at 224 Kbps.

Feel free to ask more.