Need Advice on Card for DTV

[Mr. Burn]

I'm doing a major upgrade on my computer and will be getting a new video card. I now use an AIW Radon 8500 (thanks to Lord Smurf's suggestions a few years back) but it's outdated. I want to record DTV (off an antenna for now, dish/cable later) and be able to capture video from my analog video camera. I'm confused over the choices. Do I look for another AIW video card to do everything or do I go with a good video card and get a separate tuner for DTV? Will a digital tuner have the capability of capturing analog video from my camcorder as well? I'm a low budget type of guy (note the antenna) so if I go with a stand alone tuner I'll want something around $50.

[lordsmurf]

I've entertained the same idea of a HD capture card for cheap, but really have not come across anything I want. Tuner costs and antenna costs are the real stopper for me. $200+ for a tuner, $50+ for the antenna ... not including the capture card piece ... for a signal that is honestly not much better than what I get on digital cable. Don't forget these "hidden costs" when shopping. I just cannot justify it right now.

At any rate, good luck. If you find something, post back.

[Mr. Burn]

OK, now I'm really confused. Lord Smurf, please help. Are you saying I can't get a capture card for under $200? A quick search in the list section shows things like Pinnacle PCTV SAT with a rating of 7.8 for $50. Won't this work OK? Are you saying that cable TV is the way to go and forget using my computer? Do AIW cards capture digital?

[Abbadon]

I have no experience with digital TV Tuners, but doing a quick search I found this product:

http://www.provantage.com/kworld-kw-atsc-110~7KWRD00L.htm

Very cheap I have to say.

[lordsmurf]

The thing you stick in the computer is not enough. Many of them also need an external ATSC tuner and an HDTV antenna. Those costs add up quickly. If you're still in Round Rock, you might get away with a cheap $30 antenna. If you can get a KWorld card (which apparently includes a tuner), then you're looking at $100 plus taxes/shipping. So at least $110-120 total. It's more than double the $50 you wanted to spend, for the whole package.

The way to capture digital cable is plug the digital cable box into the capture card.

I use JVC/Polaroid/LiteOn DVD recorders for capturing tv these days. It's faster and looks great.

[Mr. Burn]

Thanks for the reply. Sorry to seem so stupid...

You're saying that a capture device (like the Pinnacle PCTV SAT) doesn't have the right tuner in it and I need to add something external to the PC, right? I don't believe that Lord Smurf (who built an awesome website explaining how to capture, convert, etc.) says to just buy a DVD recorder and forget using my PC. Maybe I should look into DVD recorders.

The antenna is no problem because from Round Rock we are very close to the downtown stations and a small Radio Shack omni-directional antenna pulls in 10 digital stations on my LCV TV.

[lordsmurf]

I reserve the computer for editing and raw capturing these days. For simple MPEG work, specifically timeshifting of television, the DVD recorder works well. For VHS conversion, some DVD recorders have restoration abilities not found in capture cards (chroma removal, LSI chipsets in VBR/FR machines like the JVC). I use both, whatever works best in any given situation. And even when I use a DVD recorder, I only use it as a capture device. The computer is still used for editing, creative menu authoring, etc.

Pinnacle PCTV SAT looks to have the ATSC tuner, but it's still $70 and you'll still have to buy an antenna to go with it (unless you've got an extra antenna?). Any way you slice it, it'll run double the $50 budget you've given. I'm not so lucky, I need a larger antenna, so $100 would be wishful thinking for me. I'd be looking at a minimum of $150-175.

The other consideration of HD recordings is you're basically confined to watching them on a computer, or hooking a computer up to a HDTV, or authoring a Blu-Ray disc. Inconvenient and/or expensive (maybe you have all of this ready to go?).

If you're interested in a DVD recorder, look into the Toshiba XS35 at Best Buy ($399). Nice unit, easy to find right now.

Not trying to talk you out of an HDTV capture card, just want to make sure you're seeing the big picture. I hate nothing more than spending money on something, only to figure out I'll have to spend a lot more to actually accomplish my original goal.

[Mr. Burn]

If I go with a DVD recorder, any suggestions what I could put in my PC for capturing analog video from my camcorder? My old AIW card will be gone when I get a new pci-e mother board. Also, where could I get suggestions for DVD recorders?

[xxiangg]

A litter over a year ago, I have tried following 4 cards, i.e.,
FusionHDTV USB, ADS's instantHDTV, HDTV wonder, and Kworld
HDTV cards. They all record in TS format, so there is no difference
in terms of recording quality. The main difference is the functionality
and OTA signal sensitivity. My experience is that FusionHDTV is the
best (most sensitive and have capability to receive unencrypted
digit cable signals). HDTV wonder is 2nd to the best in terms of
sensitivity. Kworld is the last in terms of sensitivety. I tried them
using the same antenna. Fusion USB can receive about 10 channels
which are good enough for recording. Kworld HDTV only got 2~3
channels which were strong enough for recording.

[lordsmurf]

If you really like to ATI AIW card, grab yourself the older PCI ATI AIW 7200 card (not PCI-e, but PCI) for about $50 off eBay. When you want to use it, change the preferred card from PCIe to PCI in the BIOS at bootup.

Just realize a DVD recorder will not record HD, only SD/ED. You can always record the HDTV feed (if you've got an external HD tuner) at 1-hour XP mode (720x480 @ 8000k VBR) and then play it back in an upconverting DVD player. It'll be about the same as recording an HD feed.

BTW, I updated my above post after you replied.

It really comes down to what you want to accomplish here, and how much money you're willing to spend. All I can tell you is $50 is not going to do, it'll be quite a bit more if you're wanting to do HD video.

If capturing on a PCI-e board is the only concern, do the older ATI AIW PCI route. You'll be doing the same thing you are right now. And if you're happy, abide by the rule of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". It'll be a faster computer now, that's all.

As far as suggestions on DVD recorders, there are few good options. Something like the Panasonic is ghastly and awful as ever, while the Toshiba XS35 is really nice. There's not a lot going in favor for DVD recorders right now. They're between good models, hard to find anything decent right now. You'd want to upgrade from the ATI AIW card, right? Most recorders would be a downgrade. so be really careful here.

[edDV]

Use http://www.antennaweb.org to figure distance and direction to your local DTV transmitters. Round Rock should be fairly close to Austin transmitters (near Lake Travis) ~ 15mi. An indoor antenna may work. A small external would be perfect.

Set top tuners are reviewed here
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=25

Computer DTV tuners are getting into a new generation. Read reviews before you buy.

Hauppauge now has the new WinTV-HVR-950 (no analog to Mpeg2 hardware) and the WinTV-HVR-1600 which does encode analog inputs. These cards are so new, it is difficult to find good reviews.

Most ATSC cards are lacking the analog encoding hardware.

The HVR-1600 @ $89 looks like it could be the new PVR-250.

[lordsmurf]

Yeah, good point edDV. You'd basically be in the pioneering/experimental group, for this technology. It's far from mature. I'm mostly staying away from HD due to costs, the number of unknowns, and the minimal advantages it has over satellite or digital cable quality.

[edDV]

The new Hauppauge HVR-1600 uses the Conexant CX23418 hardware MPEG encoder.

The HVR-1600 is probably very similar to the Conexant reference board detailed here.
http://www.conexant.com/servlets/DownloadServlet/RED-200973-001.pdf?docid=974&revid=1

It sure would be nice if they added QAM in the clear (cable) tuning. That is the main missing feature. The best news on this card is the dual tuners can be used to record or watch analog and DTV at the same time.
http://blogs.snapstream.com/2007/01/17/new-hauppauge-cards-ces-2007/