My Last frustration: Video Capture

[Joe018]

I have over come all my challenges of authoring converting editing and ripping. With much help from these forums. My last trial will be capturing.

I'm really stumped on this one. First the setup

OS: XP
MB: Asus a7A266
Processor: t-bird 1.2
Ram: 256 DDR mushkin high perf
HD: Ibm desktstar ata100 7200rpm
Format: NTFS
Video/capture card: Asus v7700 deluxe gts 32mg ddr
capture driver: wdm

Now the problem:

Wether it be premier or virtual dub or iuvcr or any number of other programs that I have tried. No matter what the format 352X240 or 720 X480. no matter what the codec. Huffy, mjpeg divx etc. even capturing to a totaly empty partition and Even if the capture program reports not a single dropped frame i get an audio stutter. and each time that stutter occurs the audio becomes more and more out of synch. the only program that keeps the audio in synch is avi_io however it does not eliminate the stutter.

doese anyone have a clue as to where i could begin solving this problem? I am incredibly impressed with the quality of the capture. In fact the thing can capture at 720X 480 and gives me a great looking video. I'd really not like to invest in a capture card since i see the potential with the capture ability of the asus card. it is more than sufficient for my needs.

anyone ever heard of or conquered this problem?

thanks

-J

[Allan55]

IMHO :

Your computer is fast enough, but you didn't mention your hard drives!

Generally, you need a fast drive (7200 RPM) although I've had good luck with a 5400 as long as it wasn't also the system drive.

A second HD just for captures is best.

Defrag, Defrag, Defrag !!!!!!!!!

Allan

[Joe018]

hmm yes you are right i forgot to mention that. sorry. but it should be no problem there. a 40 gig ibm deskstar ata 100 7200rpm 2mb cache blah blah. and i have tried the capture from a clean 20 gig partition. same thing. I will format it again and see what happens.

Thanks

-J

[kjmacke]

What about the sound card?? Maybe try a different one.

[Triffid]

The problem you describe seems to be only sound related, so a different capture card shouldn't make any difference...so stick with the V7700.

When do you experience the problem?

- When playing in e.g media player
- when encoded to MPEG
- other.

Try extracting the audio from the .avi (eg using virtual dub) and see if it plays OK on it's own. You could also try loading it into some audio editing tool to have a look what is going on. Although it sounds to me like there is some attempt being made to resync the audio to the video (which it should have been in the first place)

Check the basic facts like sample frequency etc. just to make sure there is nothing suspect with the recorded audio. Also, make sure that your captured video frame rate is right (ie 30 fps..I assume from your capture res). You may also like to try 'adjust frame rate to match audio' option in virtualdub to see if that does anything.

If there is a problem in the audio being recorded, it could be due to IRQ or PCI availability problems. Make sure you are not doing anything with other PCI connected devices, and have no other things like: modem connection, usb devices, CD-rom drive (in fact remove any disk in your CD rom drives during capture...I think I've seen this effect things in some ays) active (and of course other programs). You could also play around with the PCI latency setting in your BIOS (but I can give no advice as to what to do with it) and make sure you have no IRQ conflicts.

Also, as kjmacke suggested, it could be a bad sound card. But check that you have the latest drivers, and try recording audio only with sound recorder of something to see if it works OK when you're not doing video work.

Last idea: What CPU load did you have during capture?...maybe if it is too high it could be effecting the response time on the PCI bus. If so, see what you can do to reduce the load (eg less compression, turn off any noise reduction or filtering, NO background programs...including mixers, the ASUS display properties system tray thing, speed key etc..running)

Good luck!

[Valnar]

The only thing you didn't mention in your PC description is undoubtably the problem. What chipset is the motherboard using?

If VIA, then replace it.

Robert

[Triffid]

Gee, I wish I'd thought of that (for the record that MB does use VIA chipset), could have saved myself from lots of worthless typing...Hey I'm doing it again!

What is it with the VIA chipset anyway that makes it so useless. I don't have one myself so I've never been unlucky enough to experience the problems, but it always seems someone is complaining about them. Maybe there should be a 'how to' or FAQ that just says "throw away you VIA chipset motherboard"...or?

[Joe018]

ARGH i really suck guys. i just built 3 computes at work using the a7v266-e. but my computer has the a7a266 wich is ali chipset. so sorry.

It happens in the captured file not at any other point. i've tried the synch thing in vdub. no help. so as long as the ali chipset is ok. then i think we are looking at sound. wich is onboard. Im not much of a gamer so i thought the onboard would be fine. it's a cmedia chip. any suggestions on a sound card?

Thanks

-J

[Triffid]

If you don't like the onboard sound, dont get a Hercules Muse XL....it's the same chip (guess that's why it's so cheap). I bought one while I was waiting for the audigy to be released, and never got around to upgrading (found other things...like food and drink..to spend my money on for now).

Basically, I don't like my Muse XL, but it doesn't cause the problems you are having (and I'm using the C-media drivers too). Then again my mobo is an ASUS TUSL2-C (Intel chipset), so it proves nothing. (My problems with the muse are: too low line in level, frame loss due (my guess) poor sample clock accuracy, shocking 48 kHz sampling, poor driver support...Hercules dropped their drivers and started delivering C-media reference drivers). So my recommendation is, if you must change your sound card, GET A REAL SOUND CARD. I'm still going with the audigy someday, but I've heard some Santa Cruz thing is OK. One problem you can run into with the 'better' sound cards is that they hog processor capacity...this was definately the case with the SB live! series, so stay away from them.

Still think the problem could be elsewhere though.

[dumwaldo]

first off yes you should have a legitimate sound card for capturing as onboard sound does often cause problems. the card to get is definatley the audigy. you dont need to get the breakout box and spend $200 either, you can get just the card alone for around $100 and it is well worth the investment in my oppinion.

in the mean time here is something you could try...

i drop way to many frames when i capture so i realized that for whatever the reason my machine just could not pump the data onto the hard drive fast enough. probably the shitty bus mastering from the VIA chipset on my mobo just like these guys here are saying. the way i found to get around this was to lower the amount of data i was trying to capture and i think this method may be able to help you as well.

use VirtualDub to capture with the huffy codec. set your audio for 11.025kHz, 16 Bit, Stereo. that will greatley reduce the amount of data you need to save in order to capture. once you have captured your file you can use the convert feature in VirtualDubs audio pull down menu to convert the audio up to 44.100kHz. when you convert it to a compressed avi or you can frameserv it out to TMPGEnc or you can export a new wav to use for VCD creation.

try lower audio settings in your capture process but keep to units that are divisable by 44.100kHz. unless you are planning on creating actual DVD's where you would want to save in any unit divisible by 48kHz. to convert cleanly into the DVD spec'd audio.

[Joe018]

you could be right. But im running out of things to try. last night i through in a second drive even. same thing using fat32 or ntfs. Before I get the card I was thinking of loading up ME or 98se on another drive just to see if it's XP

IF not then I guess i will update all my bios and driver's if that still doesnt fix it i'll try the sound card.

This is all in hopes to see the top of my closet again wich is wall to wall top shelf to ceiling full of video tapes. Maybe there is an easier way.

I've often though of buying say a replay tv. But two questions no ones been able to answer for me are if you can record from your vhs player. and secondly if you can somehow get the video files into your computer without having to go through a capture process.

Thanks again

-J

[Nelson37]

Joe018 - First off. lots of people have problems with the VIA chipset, although I have 2 such machines w/no problems. Get the lastest mobo drivers, this is essential.
When you say it happens in the capture file and not at any other point, I assume you mean the stutter is present from capture point on AND in all playback modes?
Make sure "sync to audio" is not checked in Vdub or other capture progs.
PCI latency can be set to lowest value if you have NO ISA cards.
I suspect your problem lies in the soundcard sharing an IRQ with something else, try changing these.
As mentioned, reduce your sound file bitrate and see if it still occurs. If not, problem is probably bad sound card. If so, check those IRQ's!

[Joe018]

Ok thanks Waldo,

I'll try that first in my list of things to do. but as a work around goes it seems like a lot of work for my ultimate goal of migrating my vhs tapes. But i am curious. Now all i need to do is find a lot of free time to try all these things :)

Thanks

-J

[Joe018]

yeah nelson,

it's present in all play back. only thing is. i did make an error. on the mother board in the machine im using. it is the ali chipset. and the sound is onboard c-media. i've tried the sync to audio in the past but i'ts been a while. i'll try that again. but avi_io seems to be the way to go for me for capture if i can figure out this lil glitch.

thanks for all the suggestions/response folks

[Allan55]

Hi,

You said

for the record [the Asus A7A266 MB] does use VIA chipset

No it doesn't: an A7Axxx uses an ALi chipset.

In general, for Asus MBs, the first letter describes the CPU (Athlon/Pentium), the second digit is the series (7 for Athlon); the third character is the chipset (AMD, Via, Ali Nvidia), and the last three digits indicate the bus/memory speed

More to the point, my Asus V8200 (nVidia GeForce 3) works just fine in an A7V133, an A7V133-C and an A7V266-E. All three have Via chipsets. People I know also have various Asus/nVidia cards in Asus/Via MBs and they also work fine.

From what I've read here, some capture boards do have trouble with some Via chipsets; but I'm beginning to suspect that this is becoming an old-wifes'-tale based on older chipsets and possibly problems with the capture boards. Newer Via drivers and/or newer chipsets don't appear to be a problem.

I'd look at the sound card next, some (older?) cards don't have a constant clock speed (don't ask me why) and wavering "sync" between audio and video will really screwup sound.

Allan

[hendo358]

Try installing a "Groung Loop Isolater" from RadioShack
This solved my problem with audio squeeks

[pharlap]

the fault lies within either
sound drivers need upgrading
irq conflict
or cheap encoding software

[zzyzzx]

What is it with the VIA chipset anyway that makes it so useless. I don't have one myself so I've never been unlucky enough to experience the problems, but it always seems someone is complaining about them.

VIA is legendary for bad drivers and poor performance.

[RoopeT]

Try capturing with a modified version of VirtualDub: http://www-user.rhrk.uni-kl.de/~dittrich/sync/

[Triffid]

Allan55, for the record (again) the original mail said Asus A7V266, and was since corrected. Please follow the flow of the discussion before putting shit on people!

zzyzzx, It seems so (from all the postings I've seen), but in what ways? Here was a case where the chipset was blamed for something when it wasn't present at all. I have reason to care one way or another, but if it was clear which issues were related to the VIA chipset then it would also be clear when to keep looking for other causes.

[Allan55]

Triffid, you say

Allan55, for the record (again) the original mail said Asus A7V266, and was since corrected. Please follow the flow of the discussion before putting shit on people!

I guess you are "correct"; after all people who are trying ti help have nothing better to do than read eveything in every post.

So here it is -- I apologize for wasting my time trying to help bullies like you.

Allan

[Radar]

I'm having the exact same problem as Joe018. Similar specs from the sound of it too. Windows XP, Athlon 1GHz, 384 pc100 sdram, 80 gig 7200 ata66 hard drive, MSI K7T Turbo motherboard (VIA), GeForce3 Ti200, ATI TV Wonder VE, and Guillemot Maxi Sound Muse. The last two, as you can imagine, are what I think are the sources of my problems.

I think I resolved the issues with the video capture (really dark videos). Now the problem is the audio stutter when I try to capture. I have a feeling it's the Muse card, and I've tried all the suggestions listed in this thread to no avail. I also tried using the onboard sound (VIA AC'97) and it didn't seem to help either.

Without buying a new card (which I really can't afford to do right now, plus I like having surround sound with this card), what other suggestions/solutions does anyone have?

[Barnabas]

I had a problem much like yours with an Athlon 750 mhz box. After months of trial and error, I finally tracked the problem down to a bug in the bios that was causing my hard drives to run only as if they were UDMA 33 capable. A bios upgrade fixed the problem. You might want to download the program enditall and see if having it close more programs helps.

[Triffid]

Radar,

As you have (I believe) both your audio recording and video capture device on the PCI bus, it is possible that you are getting some interference between the two. Make sure they are not sharing an IRQ. Also, check if the situation is changed (ie improved or made worse) by increasing/decreasing the data rate on each (ie try different video resolutions and audio sample rates...although I am a little convinced that the Muse only samples at 44.1k and does it's conversions in software, so it may not make a difference).

If you can show it to be a PCI problem. some things to try are:

- check that the PCI salots you have used do not share IRQ lines with anything else (maybe try moving things around anyway to see what happens)
- the PCI latency settings in the BIOS
- disabling any other PCI/USB etc devices
- play around with the audio buffer size/number in virtualdub (if your using it)
- Don't display during capture

GFood luck. Hope this helps.

[Radar]

I had started writing a very long reply detailing the results of trying all the new suggestions (updating drivers, changing PCI slots, etc) and how it didn't seem to help. But just before I hit send, I decided to try to enable the on-board AC'97 sound and use that line-in. Of course, using that input immediately worked, with 2 frames dropped over 60 minutes, and the audio perfectly in sync. In addition, the volume meter finally works so I can get a decent volume instead of just "soft or loud."

The only downside is that while it captures the audio fine, it doesn't play the audio while capturing. Since I have preview off also, I can't tell when the video is over, other than by how much time has been recorded! On the other hand, I don't have to listen to it playing the entire time, so maybe it's for the best.

Anyway, my guess is that it's a problem with the Muse itself. As long as the onboard sound works, and I can capture now, that's good enough for me. Thanks for the help!

[fisheez]

I had a similar problem once and it had to do with a bad sector on my hd. Try doing a low-level scan.

[pharlap]

I had a similar problem once and it had to do with a bad sector on my hd. Try doing a low-level scan.

yeah and this shall stuff xp nicely if you do low level format