Beta VCR's? Sony SL-2400?

[Hellbore]

I have a Beta deck we recently found at a thrift store and it seems to work fine. It is to replace our old one which was EXTREMELY old and had 2 separate modules... But I digress...

This new (old) one is a Sony SL-2400. Does anyone know anything about them? Are they any good? It weighs a ton.

Any suggestions as to good beta decks I can be on the lookout for if this one doesn't work out? (I have not thoroughly tested this one yet). I recently realized I have more Beta home movies to capture than VHS! :O So I need a good Beta machine for sure...

Just as an aside, anyone remember the old Beta VCR's where there were 2 pieces... One piece was the tape transport part, and the other piece was something, I don't know what, but you had to hook the 2 pieces together (stacked on top of each other) in order to play to your TV. To take home movies, what you did was you hooked the tape transport part to long cable that attached to a separate camera, then you put the trape transport box in a sort of backpack and carried it on your back, holding the camera part in your hand? LOL... I wish my dad hadn't thrown that setup away 10 years ago, I could kill him... I wanted it for its old-school coolness...

[budz]

Check out Ebay they have many betas for sale if the one you have doesn't work. I transferred all my beta movies and home movies by renting a beta machine at a video store, $30.00 for 2 weeks. I used a Canopus ADVC-100 to capture. The big difference I found is with the BETA tapes there was not the video noise or little shaky stuff on the bottom of the captures compared to when I captured some VHS tapes. Good luck in finding a Beta machine if the one you have doesn't work. Sony no longer manufactures BETA parts. I had 2 old BETA's that couldn't be repaired because the parts are no longer available.

[Dasun]

Sorry, I can not help on Beta VCR's but I can provide some info on the two piece units you talk about - which are more correctly known as a Porta-Pak. Sony also produced a camcorder (maybe the first?) around 1983 called a Betamovie, which had an optical view finder. Sony originally produced a B&W porta-pak around 1967 called the video rover that recorded on reel to reel tape.

Note that the term Porta-Pak is relative, I used to lug a VHS Porta-Pak - made by Panasonic in the late 1970's - and it weighed in the vicinity of 20 pounds, factor in 7 pounds for the camera, a couple of pounds for the camera control unit and another couple of pounds for a motor cycle battery and hiking became an exercise in masochisim! Definnitely not cool , but I kept it just for the memories! Incidently, most old Sony Betas were considered excellent machines in their time and with TLC probably still are.

[wulf109]

If memory serves the 2400 is a mono regular beta. You should look for a Superbeta on ebay. I used to own a lot of betas and I would recomend an SL-HF450. This deck had excellent picture qaulity but a you won't go wrong with any Sony Superbeta,avoid all other beta brands,Sanyo or Toshiba,very poor picture quality.

[NightWing]

Wow! I still have one of those!

Both the camera and the recorder. All it usualy takes to fix the recorder is usualy the single belt. Also have the TV tunner/supply!

It funny the battry compartment is about the same size as the Cannon ZR60 camcorder I use now! It takes a BP-60 bat and what a bat!

Even have a battleship. The old seperate deck they made after the orginal tv/vcr. Yep then one with the mechanical clock.

[Hellbore]

Well, none of our tapes are Superbeta, they are all Beta II or III. Is there any advantage to using a Superbeta model player if the tapes are all normal Beta?

[wulf109]

No advantage in playing regular beta tapes on a Superbeta. Superbeta records a much sharper picture than regular beta.

[Hellbore]

I just got a quote that it will cost about $75 to repair the SL-2400. Is this a pretty good price for repairs? I described the problem and the guy seemed pretty sure he knew the fix already so he quoted me $75.

I wonder if I could get a working one on Ebay for less?

[davideck]

Well, none of our tapes are Superbeta, they are all Beta II or III. Is there any advantage to using a Superbeta model player if the tapes are all normal Beta?

Do any of your tapes have Hi-FI audio tracks?
What's type of repair are you talking about?

[mstone321]

Awesome Beta Resource:

http://www.betainfoguide.com/

[Hellbore]

Our Beta home movies were all shot on a Beta Porta-Pak. Unfortunately I do now know what the model was. Did any of the Porta-Paks have hi-fi audio? I know the POrta-Pak we had was a top-loading model, which makes me think maybe it was old, since the newer ones all seem to be front-loading. I remember that thing made the coolest craziest noises when ejecting... Wooo.. reeooooo! Never heard anything like it...

The problems with the SL-2400 I got a quote on for repair are as follows:

The video looks great, for about 2 seconds, then there is about 1/2 second of fuzz all over the screen, as if the tracking went off, then it is back to looking good for 2 seconds or so. It cycles like this all the time.

You know how there is a metal rod that the pinch roller rubs the tape against to pull it along? If I VERY lightly drag my finger on the flywheel of the motor that drives this metal rod, the problem seems to go away. Crazy.

That is actually only half the problem. The other half is that the audio sounds like it is "pulsating". I don't know what to call it. Oh I know - The audio sounds almost like someone talking through a fan, only it pulses slower. So it kind of sounds like someone talking who is riding on a very bumpy road.

Any ideas?

[davideck]

Hellbore -

I don't know of any Beta Camcorders that had Hi-Fi audio. Sounds like your tapes are mono.

As for the repair, it sounds like a capstan (tracking) servo problem. If the capstan (that's the metal rod) speed is modulating in an attempt to lock up to the control track, then the audio could sound garbled.

Do all of the tapes you've tried do this?
You should try a tape that was not recorded on your Camcorder if you have one. Or just try recording and playing back on the 2400. It is possible that the 2400 is OK but cannot lock to your home video tapes...

$75 for a repair sounds like a real bargain to me!

[Hellbore]

I have some movies on tape (purchased, not pirated) and they do the same thing, so I know it's not just my home movies.

Is the servo issue one I could fix? I have some experience with electronics, not a lot. I have an oscilloscope and I have done some repair on car amplifiers. Can you give me any further advice?

When you say the capstan servo is probably to blame, what does "servo" refer to? Is it what makes the capstan turn, which I would probably (perhaps incorrectly) call a "motor?"

This capstan's "motor" or whatever it is called is interesting, the capstan shaft and bell-shaped back are held on by magnetism and I can remove it by pulling it out from the bottom of the player.

Also I wanted to mention something: The big round wheel part of the motor / servo / whatever has a ring of what looks like magnetic material around the outer edge. There appears to be some sort of sensor with 4 pins (it has the number 211 on it) that sits close to the rotating magnetic ring. If I unscrew this sensor's mount screw a little, the problem almost goes away... it improves anyway. Changing the angle of this 4-pin IC seems to make the problem better or worse. However, the way this part is mounted, it really doesn't look like it was designed to be adjusted at all.

Any ideas?

As for the $75 quote, I think the guy is probablyl wrong..> he said he thought the problem was just that it needed belts and lubrication. Well, I don't see any belts anywhere that would effect the capstan. He said if he found other more serious problems the price would go up. I have a feeling his $75 quote is not going to stand. The old bait and switch... one he gets it I bet that $75 is gonna turn into $150 !

[Hellbore]

By the way I also have a big Sanyo beta II and III player I found at a thrift store yesterday for $4 (I am not joking, four dollars). It was non-working but there was just a short in the tape sensor. I got it working and the damn thing plays, but the picture looks like a real piece of junk (even after cleaning the heads, no change). Do these always have poor quality display?

[davideck]

Is the servo issue one I could fix? I have some experience with electronics, not a lot. I have an oscilloscope and I have done some repair on car amplifiers. Can you give me any further advice?

When you say the capstan servo is probably to blame, what does "servo" refer to? Is it what makes the capstan turn, which I would probably (perhaps incorrectly) call a "motor?"

The term "servo" refers to a feedback control system. The capstan motor is part of a control system that precisely moves the tape in order to maintain the alignment between the video heads on the scanner and the tracks recorded on tape.

Without a service manual, it would be difficult to know how to repair/adjust the unit.

I'm assuming that you've cleaned all of the heads. There is a control track head next to the audio head that is also part of this servo.

I'll bet it will cost more than $75 to fix...
I'll bet it will cost more than $150 to fix...

[Hellbore]

How many heads are there?

The heads were all very dirty. When I started with this machine, it would not play any audio at all and no picture. Now it plays garbled audio but the picture looks great.

I cleaned the spinning heads, the ones in the video drum. I cleaned a head that was towards the rear area. I also cleaned another head up front. Actually it looks like maybe 2 heads side by side.

So I guess apart from the spinning heads in the drum, I cleaned 3 others. Is that all of them?

maybe I can find a service manual or some diagrams of the Beta mechanism...

[davideck]

Actually it looks like maybe 2 heads side by side.

One of those is the control track head. The gap is at the very top (or bottom?) so be sure that you cleaned it thoroughly.

It could also be a tape guiding issue. Make sure that the tape is riding properly on the guides and that all of the guides are firmly attached to the frame.

[Hellbore]

I will clean again, more carefully this time.

After finding out how expensive WORKING beta players are, even on Ebay, I went ahead and ordered a service manual. A service manual, an "adjusting" manual, and a "supplemental" manual, all 3 were about $35 total. Maybe I can use them to keep this Beta working right. If not, then I wasted $35 Better than wasting over $100 on a player that doesn't work... Most of the damn Betas on Ebay say "duh I didn't test it" or "I don't have any way to test it" or "I think it works fine but THIS ITEM IS AS-IS!!!" Jeez that inspires a lot of confidence...

Oh hey David what is good to use for cleaning the heads? I have 90% isopropyl alchohol, is that ok? What kind of cloth for the heads? I used chamois for the heads that are in the drum because I heard they can be ruined by cotton swabs or something.

[davideck]

Oh hey David what is good to use for cleaning the heads? I have 90% isopropyl alchohol, is that ok? What kind of cloth for the heads? I used chamois for the heads that are in the drum because I heard they can be ruined by cotton swabs or something.

That sounds fine. I use swabs for the stationary heads.

[oldfart13]

Sanyo and Sears were junk and known tape eaters. I gave mine away to the landfill years ago but retained my Sony SL-2710 and Sony SL-HFR70 which work perfectly. I use them to transfer old TV shows and other beta tapes to my Panasonic E80H DVD recorder.