Extension of Noahtuck's comments RE: WinAce

[jimmalenko]

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=1210307#1210307

possible warez

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=256603



Thanks / Capmaster

Okay, i may get slammed for this!!!!! but i think this is total BS!!!!! he is not asking for a crack to get Winace for free or a crack to get a registered required program for free, but is asking for a way to get files out of a winace archive, i can password pretect a zip file or winrar file, does that mean anyone trying to get the contents out is trying to crack or obtain warez ?? or "copyrighted" material ?



Noahtuck,

Please do not reply in this thread. You are free to discuss moderator
actions in the Feedback Forum. You should not be slammed for expressing
your view. In part I agree with you, however this is NOT the place
to discuss it.

*********NOTE TO ALL*********

THIS THREAD IS FOR REPORTS ONLY - USER COMMENTS TO THE FEEDBACK FORUM ONLY

Thanks / offline

Thought I'd split this out into a new thread, so there can be some discussion on it.

The OP discussed bypassing winace password protection. Now IMHO it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out that if there's a password on an archive (be it zip, rar or whatever), that chances are the material inside is something of value, and that something must be done in order to be given the password. This normally takes place in the form of a payment for a subscription to the particular site that made the archive available for download.

The first "captain obvious" comment is this - if you had any sort of legal claim on access to this file, it shouldn't be a problem to contact the owner of the material and ask them for the password, should it ? If you're entitled to be viewing the contents of the archive, this should not be a problem, and there should not be a need to "bypass" anything, just put the right password in and job's right. Now as soon as you say "bypass", IMO you are setting off warning bells and effectively saying "I obtained this illegally and have no legitimate way of getting a password". This is where the warez element enters.

The only possible plausible situation IMO where this is not circumventing a copy-protection method that is obviously there for a reason (Why would you password-protect public domain stuff ?) is that the user themselves created the archive, and has forgotten the password, but you'd think that this would be reflected in the wording of the OP, and not as an afterthought now that I've mentioned it. and all it takes is for a "look, I've been a dick and forgotten a password I put on one of my archives" and not "how can I bypass this password protection"

[steve2713]

What's your point here, Holmes? People on this site talk about DIVX videos clips they downloaded off the internet that they convert to DVDs, etc. all the time. It's obvious that the majority of these are illegal copies of movies, that sort of thing. But we can't ASSUME it without knowing for certain what these 'divx, xvid', etc. files are that people are always converting.

How is what you are doing any different? You are jumping to a conclusion that what he is doing is illegal when in reality you have no idea whether or not it is.

[jimmalenko]

... but they don't need a password cracked to convert them though, do they ?

Why password-protect something that is free and freely-available ?

... and BTW, I haven't "jumped" to any conclusions - I have formed my own personal opinion on a couple of different possible scenarios as stated above, and the mods have already issued warnings for this behaviour - I'm simply putting it up there for public discussion

[steve2713]

Again, what's your point?

You are still drawing conclusions that he is doing something illegal, and yet you have no proof. Should 2 out of every 3 people on here that bring up a DIVX-DVD conversion question get a formal warning, because they COULD be doing something illegal? I didn't think so

[jimmalenko]

As I said, I'm just throwing this up for discussion.

You're entitled to your opinion, as am I

[Richard_G]

The point here is that the OP was asking for a bypass to a password and I agree totally with Jim. If he had a legitimate right to use the files, he would have the password. I also think that the vast majority of posters that ask about converting Divx to DVD are doing it illegally. But, unless they actually mention the name of the movie that they have downloaded, they might be using one of the very small number of non-copyright files that are out there. Lets face it, if it is Divx chances are it is dodgy, anything that is legit and intended for download would be in a better, far less compressed format.

I suspect with more and more people getting DVD burners and high speed internet connections, Divx will start to disappear. The only real use for it is to be able to compress a full length movie down to a size that will fit on a CD.

[steve2713]

If he had a legitimate right to use the files, he would have the password.

Again, this is simply not true, you don't know that. I've lost passwords before, forgot what they were, etc. It could be an archive of old files a friend emailed him 4 years ago, and it was password protected, but he has no clue what the password is. He could have password protected an old archive and cannot remember doing so nor does he remember the password. There are legitimate possibilities for why it is password protected, and yet he does not have the password.

[Capmaster]

If he had a legitimate right to use the files, he would have the password.

Again, this is simply not true, you don't know that. I've lost passwords before, forgot what they were, etc. It could be an archive of old files a friend emailed him 4 years ago, and it was password protected, but he has no clue what the password is. He could have password protected an old archive and cannot remember doing so nor does he remember the password. There are legitimate possibilities for why it is password protected, and yet he does not have the password.

That's a bit naive, don't you think?

[offline]

The rules agreed to in joining this site forbid warez.

What is warez? Obtained IP (intellectual property: software/music/movies) either through download, serial, or crack in a manner that either explicitly or implied breaks the copyright or license for that IP

So as a fellow mod I would have to act the same
way as the original mod did. However I would
feel better if we were able to act only if
their is proof positive that warez are involved.

If someone asks about a divx movie but does
not provide any info that suggests that it is
warez, we have to assume that it's not warez.
The same should go for cracks imho.

Password locking of compressed folders is so common
that freely available legal commercial cracks are sold.
The same with locked MS Office binders and MS Word
documents.

Divx btw (and this includes all Mpeg-4 material) is
not a warez only media. Mpeg-4 looks like one
possible future for digital video and it is
being used for legitimate purposes right now
by hobbyists and businesses.

[Noahtuck]

If he had a legitimate right to use the files, he would have the password.

Again, this is simply not true, you don't know that. I've lost passwords before, forgot what they were, etc. It could be an archive of old files a friend emailed him 4 years ago, and it was password protected, but he has no clue what the password is. He could have password protected an old archive and cannot remember doing so nor does he remember the password. There are legitimate possibilities for why it is password protected, and yet he does not have the password.

That's a bit naive, don't you think?

First off, I apologize for just throwing that into the "Please report problem posts / threads / members here!" but when i saw it before it was checked then came back later and saw it locked

And jimmalenko, Richard_G you are wrong and assuming... ya know what they say when you "ASSUME" ??

Capmaster
(This also is for jimmalenko & Richard_G)
No, it's not naive at all what steve2713 say's!!
A LOT of sites i have come accross have used PW protection on their LEGAL files or programs they have hosted for DL in zip or W/E, Usually the P/W was their URL or site name, to protect against LEACHING!!!

I also have personally D/L Files from sites as i was surfing, lost track of where i obtained it from and when i have went to open them come to find out some monkey has P/W protected it, seeing as i could not find my way back or remember where i D/L it from, Oop's!!!! I'm screwed!!!!!!!

I would totally agree if he said, where can i get a crack to register Winace for free, or something along that line, but he just asked how he could get files out of a winace archive

And i have forgotten SOOOOOOOO many P/W i created myself it's not even funny!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Thank you everyone for putting up with my little rant last night,

Noahtuck,
Please do not reply in this thread. You are free to discuss moderator
actions in the Feedback Forum. You should not be slammed for expressing
your view. In part I agree with you, however this is NOT the place
to discuss it.

Capmaster, offline

[jimmalenko]

@steve2713 & Noahtuck:

Read this bit again from the OP

The only possible plausible situation IMO where this is not circumventing a copy-protection method that is obviously there for a reason (Why would you password-protect public domain stuff ?) is that the user themselves created the archive, and has forgotten the password, but you'd think that this would be reflected in the wording of the OP, and not as an afterthought now that I've mentioned it. and all it takes is for a "look, I've been a dick and forgotten a password I put on one of my archives" and not "how can I bypass this password protection"

I can't do any more than offer two different scenarios, one of which is quite legitimate, yet I'm the one assuming ?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if anyone can quote me as saying "This must be warez" from what I've written above, then I'll buy that man a drink

[Noahtuck]

Okay,
But did you even catch what i wrote and is plain fact of the VAST world of the net ??

(Why would you password-protect public domain stuff ?)

A LOT of sites i have come accross have used PW protection on their LEGAL files or programs they have hosted for DL in zip or W/E, Usually the P/W was their URL or site name, to protect against LEACHING!!!

Hmmmm.. musta missed that one

Yeah,, the Guy prob. should not have used the word "crack" just for the sake of the word around here.... but c'mon.... get real!!!!!!

& i don't know where the comment came from but i don't remember anyone saying you said "This must be warez"

Like i said, IF he asked for a crack for winace so he did not have to pay for it, or TMPGEnc or a whole majority of other programs, yeah, i would have sat back and LMAO!!!!! and watched the hell come down
At the most he should maybe have gotten an informal warning, maybe even d_unbeliever who IMO, was thinking the same way and was just trying to help the dude with no bad intentions at all...

[Richard_G]

And jimmalenko, Richard_G you are wrong and assuming... ya know what they say when you "ASSUME" ??

It's not an assumption, but a suspicion based on the wording of the original post. I work in law enforcement and the law states that in order to enter and search premises without the owners explicit consent I must obtain an entry and search warrant from a court. I wish to enter in order to search for EVIDENCE of an offence having been committed but in order to get the warrant granted, I must demonstrate that I have "Reasonable grounds to suspect" that I will find that evidence.

In this case, without seeing the actual file, we do not have the evidence, but, due to the way the original post was worded, we have reasonable grounds to suspect.

As Jim has already said, had the post been worded differently it could have been shown to be completely innocent.

[Capmaster]

Good point Richard_G.

And, don't forget that of all the possible violations of the rules here, warez is the only one that could get this site shut down, and get our administrator into trouble. We are particularly vigilant when it comes to warez because of the high visibility this site has

[jimmalenko]

Okay,
But did you even catch what i wrote and is plain fact of the VAST world of the net ??

(Why would you password-protect public domain stuff ?)

A LOT of sites i have come accross have used PW protection on their LEGAL files or programs they have hosted for DL in zip or W/E, Usually the P/W was their URL or site name, to protect against LEACHING!!!

Hmmmm.. musta missed that one

It was extremely easy to miss, considering my comment you just quoted was in the FIRST POST in this thread, then you made your comment some two and a half hours later

... and before you say it, I just quoted my text in the OP and kept the paragraph intact, but even given that scenario, why not just contact the website again ? If you can't remember where you got it from, I call that your bad luck / bad management, as there is a completely legitimate workaround without even needing to resort to cracking of any nature whatsoever.

**********

& i don't know where the comment came from but i don't remember anyone saying you said "This must be warez"

My point exactly.

And jimmalenko, Richard_G you are wrong and assuming... ya know what they say when you "ASSUME" ??

We assumed nothing. You assumed we were condemning this as warez straight off the bat. If you didn't assume this, we wouldn't be wrong - we'd just have differing opinions/interpretations

**********

Like i said, IF he asked for a crack for winace so he did not have to pay for it, or TMPGEnc or a whole majority of other programs, yeah, i would have sat back and LMAO!!!!! and watched the hell come down
At the most he should maybe have gotten an informal warning, maybe even d_unbeliever who IMO, was thinking the same way and was just trying to help the dude with no bad intentions at all...

Take a look at the previous post of the guy wanting a Winace password cracker - he asked for a TMPGEnc serial !!!!

... and I *think* d_unbeliever got his warning for advocating - that is, making this guy aware that "solutions" do exist.

[Capmaster]

Take a look at the previous post of the guy wanting a Winace password cracker - he asked for a TMPGEnc serial

Correct. And his previous yellow card (he has 2 now). He was carded recently by Baldrick for soliciting cracks. I mentioned it when I issued the yellow card and came to the conclusion he was not an innocent victim of a lost password based on his previous infraction here. He's a crack hound. We get them all the time here

There is really no discussion here. He asked for a crack - he got dinged. d_unbeliever helped him by pointing him to a crack source. He got dinged too. No-brainers, IMO

[Noahtuck]

Ummmm..... yeah

Ya know, i was mistaken, he never even asked for a crack!!!!!

I opened a winace archive, and it had all the files, but when i tried to open/extract them, it asked for a password. How do I bypass this?

Never did he state what was in it was protected ? never did he ask for a way to steal something......

So would it have been any diff. if he said, "how do i get them out without the password ??"

He is not asking "how do i register winace without paying for it ?"

people will come up with anything to justify that they are right, i have stated and this is a fact to anyone who has any length of experiance,

A LOT of sites i have come accross have used PW protection on their LEGAL files or programs they have hosted for DL in zip or W/E, Usually the P/W was their URL or site name, to protect against LEACHING!!!

I also have personally D/L Files from sites as i was surfing, lost track of where i obtained it from and when i have went to open them come to find out some monkey has P/W protected it, seeing as i could not find my way back or remember where i D/L it from, Oop's!!!! I'm screwed!!!!!!!

And Cap, i totaly agree!!!! i would hate to lose this site!!!!!!!!

Like i said, IF he asked for a crack for winace so he did not have to pay for it, or TMPGEnc or a whole majority of other programs, yeah, i would have sat back and LMAO!!!!! and watched the hell come down

But he did'nt, he asked how to get the files out without a password....
And it is VERY common for sites to do this, you don't have to pay, under circumstances i stated above more than once.....
I just think it was unfair to give him a formal warning in this situation....

[Capmaster]

Look at his first yellow card post:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=750550#750550

Either he's a crack hound, or he's incredibly clumsy. Either way he deserves a card

[Noahtuck]

Look at his first yellow card post:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=750550#750550

Either he's a crack hound, or he's incredibly clumsy. Either way he deserves a card

Okay Bro !!!! YA GOT ME!!!!!

Yeah, thats pretty obvious!!!! :P

See, I'm LMAO!!!!!!!

Love ya 8)

[Capmaster]

Look at his first yellow card post:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=750550#750550

Either he's a crack hound, or he's incredibly clumsy. Either way he deserves a card

Okay Bro !!!! YA GOT ME!!!!!

Yeah, thats pretty obvious!!!! :P

See, I'm LMAO!!!!!!!

Love ya 8)

8)

[jimmalenko]

<shakes cappy's hand>

good work, ol' boy !

[Noahtuck]

Look at his first yellow card post:
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=750550#750550

Either he's a crack hound, or he's incredibly clumsy. Either way he deserves a card

Okay Bro !!!! YA GOT ME!!!!!

Yeah, thats pretty obvious!!!! :P

See, I'm LMAO!!!!!!!

Love ya 8)

8)

But to be fair, that is a diff. post than what i seem to have started this over :P
So you can't condem someone for what they did before and this is a completely diff. situation 8)

But yeah,he should be slammed for that very obvious stupidity!!!!!

[jimmalenko]

You don't instantly condemn all future posts by that user - as you say, this is a different issue, but I'm sure the "behavioural pattern" is kept in mind, and given the similarity in wordings of queries in this case, well ...

The thought crosses your mind I reckon.

[Capmaster]

Behavior patterns make all the difference. For example:

A new member has three posts ...all spam linking his site where he's selling something. Instant ban.

An older member has a post linking his site where he's selling something. He has 250 posts and this is the only spam post. All the others were geniune questions or posts helping others. Informal warning or yellow card depending on the post.

Both could be almost identical posts, with drastically different results depending on the "feel" we get from past history

[canadateck]

An older member has a post linking his site where he's selling something. He has 250 posts and this is the only spam post.

If I have info on my site to help a poster can I link to it? Even if I sell stuff on my site? But not the info He/she needs.

[Capmaster]

An older member has a post linking his site where he's selling something. He has 250 posts and this is the only spam post.

If I have info on my site to help a poster can I link to it? Even if I sell stuff on my site? But not the info He/she needs.

Sure, if the post with the link mentions help and not that you're selling something 8) If you also sell something there, fine. As long as the post itself doesn't advertise any items to buy or sell

[canadateck]

An older member has a post linking his site where he's selling something. He has 250 posts and this is the only spam post.

If I have info on my site to help a poster can I link to it? Even if I sell stuff on my site? But not the info He/she needs.

Sure, if the post with the link mentions help and not that you're selling something 8) If you also sell something there, fine. As long as the post itself doesn't advertise any items to buy or sell

What if they ask "Where can i buy such and such?" And i sell it on my site.. ok to link to it?

[Capmaster]

I would PM them then It's best not to mention any buying or selling in open forum. That's not to say spamming via PM is OK. It's not. But if they ask, there's no harm in PM-ing your link.

Advertisers pay good money to run ads here and it would do them a disservice if buy/sell posts were being freely posted. Plus, it would turn this place into another e-bay