New Court Date For DVD Jon

[sammie]

Round 2 is scheduled for December:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=VKF2M4OMXSRHMCRBAEKSFEY?type=techn...toryID=2486422

[Will Hay]

Will look forward to the outcome of that!
One thing still puzzles me...
(Extract from Reuters)...
"There is no specific legislation in Norway that bars the digital duplication of copyrighted material, but Johansen's program has been made a criminal offence in the United States under the Digital Copyright Millennium Act".
...
If the use of programs such as this is now a criminal offence in the US, how can the majority argue that backing up legally owned dvd's is not against the law?
Will

[Bob W]

How is it that a person is found innocent in a trial can face trial for the same alleged crime? Isn't that called double jeopardy?

[Will Hay]

How is it that a person is found innocent in a trial can face trial for the same alleged crime? Isn't that called double jeopardy?

It's not a re-trial, it's an appeal.
W.

[ElQueso2]

What's wrong with democracy silky31?

DIE YOU SOCIALIST

[adam]

Will look forward to the outcome of that!
One thing still puzzles me...
(Extract from Reuters)...
"There is no specific legislation in Norway that bars the digital duplication of copyrighted material, but Johansen's program has been made a criminal offence in the United States under the Digital Copyright Millennium Act".
...
If the use of programs such as this is now a criminal offence in the US, how can the majority argue that backing up legally owned dvd's is not against the law?
Will

Actually, from I see, the majority seems to argue the truth, that it is technically illegal to copy a DVD in the US.

Fair Use predates the DMCA. It makes it legal to copy any software that you personally own. Then the DMCA was passed which essentially makes it illegal to reverse engineer software. This legislation was NEVER meant to apply to CSS protection of DVDs, yet according to the literal wording of the law it does.

So basically, you have a legal right to backup a DVD you own, but there is no legal way to do so. Its a legal catch-22, and actually these things happen all the time. They usually get settled in court, but its unlikely anyone will be prosecuted for backing up a DVD they own so it may be a while before anyone can definitively say that backing up a DVD in the U.S. is either legal or illegal.

BTW: That little article is very poorly written. As Silky correctly noted, it is not a re-trial it is an appeal.

[Treebeard]

As a note about the USA and their messed up laws - check this out


MPAA has most likely learned its lessons that pushing forward a new law that would curb freedom of speech and "fair use" rights through the federal legislation is virtually impossible, because consumer groups such as EFF take notice of proposed federal bills very quickly. So, MPAA has pushed individual U.S. states to pass laws that restricts tons and tons of consumer rights.

In Maryland, such legislation is already in the state law, it passed in 2001 without no one even noticing. The law bans software that "can be used for converting a video or audio material transmitted over the Net to other format". So, you guys who live in Maryland and have DivX codecs or TMPGEnc installed on your computer, you're already breaking the law.


Now the laws are getting out of hand!!!

[MOVIEGEEK]

I think the MPAA is kicking a dead horse(and will lose) against DVD Jon for three reasons:
1.DMCA does not apply to Norway(or any other country but the US)
2.DVD Jon was not selling DeCSS so fining him would be unjust.
3.DVD Jon was a minor at the time he wrote and distributed the software
which in most countries is a misdemeanor.

[flyingmonkey35]

Wow,

First one could argue that they right to copy HOME MADE dvd's of ones family reunion. Is intrialy legal. I made the flim therfore i can do what ever i want with it. copy it, convert it, put it on the web for all to see.

So if they are going to stop me from using software that can do that good luck.

Now if they can prove that i have been making ilegal copies of dvds that i do not own they might have a case on the indvilde basis.

I likin it to owning a Gun, there are some people out thier that want to take away your right to own a gun. Affiraid someone out thier might use it ileagly.

any way thats my 2 cents worth.

[adam]

Its impossible to use CSS protection on burned DVDs, therefore no reverse engineering is required to backup a homemade DVD. Copying a homemade DVD does not violate DMCA or any other law. There are actually some commercial DVDs which don't use CSS protection as well, and it would be legal to back these up also.

Its not illegal to back up a DVD. It is only illegal to use software which bypasses CSS protection. But unless you can find a way to do the first without also doing the latter, then what you are doing is technically illegal in the US.

[flyingmonkey35]

After that

I need a beer!

and lots better spell check and proof reading.

monkey is bad boy.

[Will Hay]

What's wrong with democracy silky31?

DIE YOU SOCIALIST

"Die you socialist"?
My signature is an ironic joke and if it was ever aimed at anyone in particular it's *you* my ignorant friend.
W.

[Bob W]

What's wrong with democracy silky31?

DIE YOU SOCIALIST

"Die you socialist"?
My signature is an ironic joke and if it was ever aimed at anyone inparticular it's *you* my ignorant friend.
W.

Bwahaha LOL.

[Will Hay]

What's wrong with democracy silky31?

DIE YOU SOCIALIST

"Die you socialist"?
My signature is an ironic joke and if it was ever aimed at anyone inparticular it's *you* my ignorant friend.
W.

Bwahaha LOL.

Glad someone could see the irony
W.

[progital]

well with all these stupid laws about copying being enacted i doubt that the police will really take the time to enforce them. If you are now not on the gov radar for some wrongdoingi wouldnt worry bout the dmca or any stupid state law... hell i goto the swap meet and see boatloadsof bootleg music cd's for sale and noone says boo. I know for a fact that the Juarez cartel operates a factory and they turn out really shitty copies and there is a factory in Mexicali that turns out really good pressed copies the thing that gives them away is the quality of the cd cover printing however the cd itself is usualy screenprinted with 2-3 colorssuggesting quite a bit of talent. They have been in business for several years now without nothing happening to them.

As fas as jons case i feelsorry for the poor guy as he got on some industry groups radar and now they just want to bend him over to "send a message" well i hear your message mpaa losers it says "we filthy ritch hypocrite librals want all your money you flyover country people, oh yes we the gods of hollywierd are supreme our egos are huge and our cars are shiny"

[VinnySem]

How is it that a person is found innocent in a trial can face trial for the same alleged crime? Isn't that called double jeopardy?

It's not a re-trial, it's an appeal.
W.

As far as I know, under the US Constitution, you CANNOT be tried for the same crime twice. The Prosecution CANNOT appeal. Only the defense can appeal a guilty verdict. If a person is acquitted, they are free. New and different charges must be filed. Case in point the Rodney King case, the police officers in question were found not guilty of assault charges, but new charges were filed for violation of his civil rights, and they were found guilty.

[adam]

The Prosecution CANNOT appeal.

That's not true. The prosecution (State or Fed. Govt.) appeals acquitals all the time. When the prosecution appeals in a criminal trial it is not getting another shot at proving you guilty. It is not a re-trial. No new evidence is presented, the appellate court simply reviews the previous trial for errors. If there was an improper jury instruction, if the judge incorrectly applied law or did not follow proper procedure, if evidence was incorrectly excluded etc... all of these things can be grounds for appeal. You can be acquited in a district court, and then found guilty upon the review of a higher court and this is not considered double jeapardy. You are only being tried once, the later proceedings are just used to make sure that the initial trial was conducted correctly.

[MOVIEGEEK]

We(Americans)are qouting our judicial system and laws,I would like to hear from a Norge(Norwegian)how they feel about this case.

[DivXExpert]

If it was illegal to get past CSS encryption, then it would be illegal to play DVDs in your DVD player.

[adam]

I specifically said that the DMCA makes it illegal to reverse engineer software. CSS protection is designed to be decrypted in a DVD Player, when the dvd player decrypts the CSS protection it is not reverse engineering anything, it is operating as intended.

When you use DeCSS type tools to hack your way past the protection, that is when you are violating the DMCA.

I admit I was summarizing DMCA and speaking of it in laymens terms. Its far too long a document to lay it all out here. I believe you can read it in its entirety if you do a web search on it.

[DivXExpert]

Whats the difference between a DVD Player decrypting a DVD and, say DVDDectryptor?

If there is a difference, why not make a decryptor that works the same way as a DVD Player.

[sammie]

@DiVXExpert

The difference is that the manufacturer has paid a royalty to be allowed to use a licenesed version of the decryption software.

As to various comments above. Appeals do not count as double jeopardy as already noted. Plus, double jeopardy is a fairly unique American concept. I wouldn't be surprised to find that Norway has no such law.

I forget the text of the ruling, but I think the magistrate did say something along the lines of "Why on earth do you think an American law which was passed after the fact should have any weight in a Norwegian court". I think what is more amazing is the fack that the appeals court agreed to hear the case given the original ruling, but it does show just how strong these folks are that they can push issues so much in a foreign legal system. As to a comment above about just wanting Jon to bend over, they've been very clear in their motives all along. In fact, the requested "punishment" is nothing, something like 6 months suspended. All they want is a favorable ruling in a non US court that can be exploited.

[Colindale]

????It's not a re-trial, it's an appeal.???

American Administrations will "Appeal" and appeal and appeal in every court
until they get the result they want!.

it's called International dominance.

[red lion]

Its not illegal to back up a DVD. It is only illegal to use software which bypasses CSS protection. But unless you can find a way to do the first without also doing the latter, then what you are doing is technically illegal in the US.

So does this mean DVD DECRYPTER is ileagle as it bypasses CSS protection
or is it ok for some reason

[Will Hay]

????It's not a re-trial, it's an appeal.???

Erm, yes, that's what I said.
An appeal is an appeal against the decision, a re-trial is totally different.
Will Hay

[tim_k]

Its not illegal to back up a DVD. It is only illegal to use software which bypasses CSS protection. But unless you can find a way to do the first without also doing the latter, then what you are doing is technically illegal in the US.

So does this mean DVD DECRYPTER is ileagle as it bypasses CSS protection
or is it ok for some reason

I've been wondering about this too. If the Feds are prosecuting DVD Jon, why aren't they going after websites that allow the downloading of DVDdecrypter and smartripper?

[Quigonsean]

Someone who gets sued by the mpaa for violating the dmca, should file a counter suit for violation of their constitutional rights. Fair use falls under the first ammendment, that makes the dmca unconstitutional if it makes fair use backingup illegal. If I had the money I'd sue Jackoff Valenti and his Man boy love association er I mean motion pictiure ASSociation of America for violating my constitutional rights. I wish someone would, with -the right jud-ge you just might get lucky enough to overurn or declare the DMCA unconstitutional.

Sean