Bad news for p2p

[nufan292]

http://news.com.com/2010-1071-982121.html?tag=fd_nc_1

Why has there not been any news about WinMX? All I ever hear about is Kazza.

[twodogs]

Mmmm... 4.1 million users off to jail.
I'd like to see that...

[DivXExpert]

p2p is not against the law. what some people do with it is. I don't see how they can get rid of it. No laws are being broken by the writers of the program. Just some of the users. The RIAA has to realize that the industry is changing. I mean sony sells MP3 players. And then they sue p2p writers.

People don't want to pay for stuff. While this is sad, because nobody is going to be able to make money off of a digital medium anymore, it is also the way things are going to be in the future. If Kazaa goes down. All of its users will jump to other p2ps. No stoping it. This is especially bad for me because I am a musician. but things change.

[dementia13]

HA HA HA HA! If anyone read that article and believes it, you are totally ignorant. I've been to prison for REAL crime. The system is soooo over crowded they are letting people out every day or giving them probation instead. If you think the U.S. govt has time to chase down the millions and millions of P2P users and send them prison, you are a total DUMBASS! HA HA. There isn't enough tax dollars or manpower to do that. Its all hype. WHen the war on drugs, rape, murder, and child molestation is WON then P2P users should worry. Until then, keep sharing and laugh at those that try to stop you.

[ChrisX]

I think laws got to change with the times with the new technology. It is ridiculous having to jail millions of Internet users just because of copyright.

Remember this, so way, way back when Betamax VCR court challenge for time shifting of TV programs. Sony won! The VHS VCR recording is still with us and the movie and music industry refused to accept new challenges and they won't update to the digital age.

The music and movie industry should a have a look around at themselves and review the management of the industry. Haven’t they thought of yearly online music subscription? A yearly membership is the way to go to download Mp3’s.

The music CD is over and they have to accept this. Time to download another song and listen to Internet radio.

[Sartori]

[DivXExpert]

i think all the people using p2p for illegal purposes know that what they are doing is wronge. They just don't care. Digital art is over. Anything digital can be copied without a loss in quality, duplicated millions of times. And nobody has to pay for it. Soon enough, people wont be able to make money off of art on a digital medium. Then there is no more music, movies, software, ect. because nobody is willing to pay for it. Oh, well. Those people only care about right now. Not thinking into the furture of thier actions. Untill they find out a way to make things free. and still make a profit. then its all over.

[Greg12]

WinMX still enjoys an air of sophistication, it's not completly idiot proof n u need some understanding of P2P programs.

That's my guess why it is unmentioned.

[Xtasy2002]

You people misunderstand the importance of this article. They aren't going to go out and drag every 75 year old lady who downloads an mp3 of frank sinatra off to jail for breaking the law. What will most likely happen is they will go after the root of the sharing itself. The guys on very fast pipes, who share a ton of files, and everyone downloads from.

In essence they only really need to hit about 10,000 people to have a very serious effect and put most of the trading to a stop. Of the 4 million people you talk about, a very small number of these guys are the ones who have the fast servers and 1000's of files up for share. When they go down the network will slow to a crawl. Sure you can get a song from some guy on a cable modem who has a personal collection of 100 songs. But with upstream the way it is on cable modems, you will be lucky to get 2 downloads off his modem before it's no longer worth it to grab anything. It will just be too slow.

I expect the war on P2P to be much like the war on drugs or any other crime. They will attack the source of the files & the big time traders. That will get most of the crime taken out, and almost everyone else will see this.. And will be too scared to continue trading, because they don't want to go to prison. The few that are left would be pretty easy to track down later on.

In the grand scheme of things though, one good thing will come of this. Maybe once the RIAA gets all their crappy pop garbage off of P2P. Real artisits (independant artists who have signed no label) will be able to use it to distribute REAL music.. And people can start to share real files that they personally own over the network. And finally I can find some real content without having to wade through 1 billion GB of RIAA produced shit.

[Thorn]

People don't want to pay for stuff. While this is sad, because nobody is going to be able to make money off of a digital medium anymore, it is also the way things are going to be in the future.

Things can change... and not everyone is a cheapass. I didn't belive in spending much money in college (because I didn't have the cash to spare) but now that I'm gainfully employed I buy a lot more stuff (including music).

Honestly this may be a sucessful avenue to restrict piracy. As many mention, after the first few major busts and convictions, people will start to think twice about pirating. The big companies don't care about the hardcore pirates that won't pay no matter how many restrictions there are on trading. They care about the guy who might buy, or might pirate, and chooses to pirate because it's low risk, low price, and maybe kindof fun. If the legal threat is more real, the casual users start to disappear. And people will stop spouting irrelevant stuff like "but you can't send 4.1 million people to jail" because even before one is sent to jail they've realized even getting sued is a pain in the ass.

[pacmania_2001]

This case will be similar to the war on drugs, they may take out a portion of the problem but like drugs that percentage that they do prosecute will be minor in scale when compared to the problem overall.

As I said in another post on the subject, they need to hit higher up in the chain, the suppliers/rippers/release groups. If they could take out 2 or 3 of the major groups (TCF, VideoCD, Esoteric etc) then a more significant impact would be made then going after a thousand P2P users. It would be easy for the MPAA to infiltrate them simply by supplying them with the stuff they want (read their release nfo's). The MPAA could donate them hardware or a camera. Then they would be inside the supply network. Once the other groups start seeing this they will be more reluctant to release new movies

For the RIAA it is harder to stop their problem. Instead of endless legal prosecution they should engage the P2P networks with fake or corrupted files similar to what they are doing now but in larger numbers. Some one on a 56k modem or broadband but with limited downloads isnt going to continue using a certain P2P network if for every 5 files they download, 3 are corrupted.

[BJ_M]

i may be wrong -- but the war on drugs hasnt really made a dent in the drug trade i understand..

[idie2]

this is all extremely dumb to me. im reading some posts here, and im laughing out loud. first of all they will never quit making music and movies. regardless how many people dl movies or mp3s or whatever. take lord of the rings for instance. how many millions of dollars had it made, but its available almost anywhere on the net. second of all. if they do try and bust kazza users, there wasting there time. cause nothing but noobs use it anyway. actually i would be much more happier if there where no p2p programs. cause then not just any idiot will be able to find and dl whatever they desire. even if they shut mirc down, and all p2p programs, there will still be places to get it. another thing to take into consideration, how many people dl a song, and then buy the cd. i know several that do. maybe if these big riaa and mpaa quit making so many things that suck, it wouldnt be this bad. how many cds have you guys bought that had 1 or 2 good songs on it and the rest blew. how many times did you spend 25 bucks on, and leaving feeling that you have just taken a hour and a half away from your busy life of picking your nose. well i guess im dont venting. so peace all

[Felix_2000]

Well I sugest that the next version of p2p networks implement 56bit or 128bit encryption so that it makes it more difficult to see the files being passed.

Anyhow I also believe it's not illegal to download files if you already own a legal copy. So I can't see how just the fact you put an mp3 in your share folder makes you a music pirate.

-=| Felix |=-

[drewson99]

if they do try and bust kazza users, there wasting there [sic] time. cause nothing but noobs use it anyway

wow dude, you must be L337.

[yautja666]

In the grand scheme of things though, one good thing will come of this. Maybe once the RIAA gets all their crappy pop garbage off of P2P. Real artisits (independant artists who have signed no label) will be able to use it to distribute REAL music.. And people can start to share real files that they personally own over the network. And finally I can find some real content without having to wade through 1 billion GB of RIAA produced shit. :)

I whole-heartedly agree.

My own band's material has appeared on Kazaa and I don't really give a crap. I know for a fact that anyone who downloads our material and likes what they hear will most likely seek out our recordings, whereas the individual who downloads and doesn't listen more than once or twice obviously isn't all that into it and won't be buying anything. To an even further extent, rips of a much-delayed forthcoming album of ours have also shown up on Kazaa, but the same principle applies: if someone likes it enough, they'll hunt down the real thing when it's released...the people who do this sort of thing are called music fans, a much-maligned group I think the majority of so-called musicians and industry dorks forget about.

P2P represents freedom from the chains of music industry selection and control. It gives everyone and anyone a chance to release their material and be heard, which I'm sure the RIAA is crapping their pants over, as it takes away from the incomes of idiots who know nothing of any creative process other than how to word their next lawsuit. At the end of the day, the real artists will find "downloading=albums sold,"...good music tends to have this effect. Oh, but let us not forget about poor whores like Britney, Justin, Mandy, Christina, etc. etc. ad nauseum, who will just never be able to afford their big houses and fast cars unless you stop downloading and go buy their tripe this very instant.

On a side note, I've always continuously made fun of record industry types (A&R reps, lawyers, etc.), since they always came off as a bunch of I-never-bothered-to-play-an-instrument-but-I-still-want-to-hangout-with-the-bands-and-try-to-be-cool-anyway dweebs.

Bring on this supposeldy impending Great Fall of the Music Industry...it'll do nothing but pave the way for real artists and their fans.


Yautja666

[omicron]

I live in Belgium. Most countries where the legal system is based on the Napoleonic code (that excludes most anglo-saxon countries) have taken the common sense approach: any copy of copyrighted material, however acquired, used for private use is perfectly legal. Such a copy used for public purposes, or for profit, is subject to payment of royalties.

As a consequence, for instance, my wife, who is a medical practitioner, pays a (reasonable) yearly fee to the Artists' union for the broadcast of music in the waiting room. That's public broadcasting of copyrighted stuff, so the artists are entitled to their income. And f*** whoever would start arguing that Mozart's work is in the public domain and thus no royalty should be due on public performance of his music - that's the extremist, overly capitalistic view of the big music into money machine commercial artists who want to have it all and leave nothing to the lesser popular, or publicized, artists.

Artists who see their work distributed through other than classical means (people buying the official CD, or DVD, or VHS, or ...) but downloaded from the Web, or copied from rental shops, or .... have a right to compensation. Nobody disputes this. In Belgium we decided that as a consequence, a (small) increase in the sales tax on re-recordable medium will be applied. I am happy with that system. It's fair and reasonable and workable and does not attempt at restricting my freedom, or limiting it in any way.

Negotiations are under way. Where the industry becomes unreasonable is when it argues that re-recordable media should include Hard Drives (in desktops, laptops, game consoles, soon DVD players, you name it). I can only guess, but here I think the industry is biting its own tail (as someone said, Sony sells MP3 players - are they going to sue themselves) plus attacking some big guys (PC manufacturers).

They stopped Napster, Kazaa emerged. This site has a section on hacking regional codes. Nobody will ever stop this. Time to become reasonable, but let the least reasonable ones (the music and movie industry) make the first conciliatory move. In the meantime, happy D/L from the Web, and visit your rental shop more often....

[ChrisX]

In Belgium we decided that as a consequence, a (small) increase in the sales tax on re-recordable medium will be applied. I am happy with that system. It's fair and reasonable and workable and does not attempt at restricting my freedom, or limiting it in any way.

omicron -

You say it is fair to tax or impose a fee on blank CD's and DVD's. I don't agree and isn't fair for everyone. What about backup of personal data on a CD?

It is all very well to protect music and film copyright and it is ridiculous to suggest these people should be paying the extra as well.

In Australia, the extra cost on blank CD’s and DVD’s are not here yet and the Government is considering the proposal.

This is my suggestion to make fair is to tax or a fee on a blank CD-R only for music and exempt the CD-RW for data backup.

I don't think extra tax or fee on a hard drive is fair either. Not everyone downloads Mp3 music and what about people transferring their own music CD into Mp3 in the hard drive for convenience?

This isn’t going to work for everyone. The music and film industry is plain too greedy for money!

[DEmberton]

Honestly this may be a sucessful avenue to restrict piracy. As many mention, after the first few major busts and convictions, people will start to think twice about pirating. The big companies don't care about the hardcore pirates that won't pay no matter how many restrictions there are on trading. They care about the guy who might buy, or might pirate, and chooses to pirate because it's low risk, low price, and maybe kindof fun.

Indeed. All they need is a few high-profile cases (as they're bound to be) of ordinary downloaders, send them to jail for a month, and the number of people pirating is bound to drop sharply. It will also help to change the perception that somehow this type of theft is okay as you're only stealing from some faceless corporation that probably charges too much anyway.

Dave

[omicron]

I am not sure it is practical to levy a tax or a fee on a blank CD-R only for music and to exempt the CD-RW for data backup. And what about DVD-R / RW in your scheme ? Same treatment (no tax on RW, tax on R) since we will, in that case, all swear to God we use DVD-RW exclusively and only, yessir, only for data BU ?

I see your logic but I do not think it is practical / feasible, nor politically possible. Besides, it surely does not look like a robust long term solution to me. If I had to replace my car radio / CD player today [luckily not the case], I think I would accept the small, and diminishing by the day, extra cost of a "RW capable" CD player . In a couple of months / years time, I wonder whether any new CD music player will be anything but RW - MP3 capable. And every DVD player shall be CD Data capable. With your proposal, shan't we then be back to square one ?

You know, I think you, and everybody else in this world, should support the proposal of a reasonable tax / fee on virgin medium, even if it doesn't feel 100% OK. At least, if the proposal goes through and the tax / fee is reasonable, you / your Govt. will be able to claim to be acting in good faith, which is not the case of the movie / music tycoons.

[ChrisX]

I am not sure it is practical to levy a tax or a fee on a blank CD-R only for music and to exempt the CD-RW for data backup. And what about DVD-R / RW in your scheme ? Same treatment (no tax on RW, tax on R) since we will, in that case, all swear to God we use DVD-RW exclusively and only, yessir, only for data BU ?

What I said is only a suggestion. To me music is generally into a CD-R and data into CD-RW and this is why I got to this conclusion. This same applies to DVD-R and DVD-RW even though I didn't mention them.

You say that you can see my logic but you do not think it is practical, feasible, nor politically possible to do this way with the R and the RW.

I don't agree, anything is possible and this depends on the Government of the day. The Australian Government is a business government for business. This is example of a fairer way, a rebate or a refund on blank CD's or DVD's for business purposes.

I don't think it is feasible to tax CD-RW or DVD-RW as this mainly for data backup.

You don't have to agree with me as a matter of opinion.

[sammie]

Unless things have changed you already pay a small fee on cassette tape blanks for this very reason.

I agree with those that are saying that all the RIAA needs to do is blast a couple of ordinary joes and it will scare the large majority out of the system. As to those who are saying it will never hold up in court, it looks like it is so far, plus, it doesn't have to. RIAA is deep pockets all they have to do is get it INTO the courts. They can bankrupt folks by dragging them into suit after suit. Again they don't have to do everyone. Just enough high profile cases to scare the bejeezuses out of the average swapper.

Ummm, encryption? Guys how would that work? Anything that would be open to users would be open to the RIAA? They aren't using packet sniffers. They are using plants as participants in the network.

Will different systems surface? Probably. Will they be as sucessful? Who knows. All in all I believe that this whole thing is a whipping boy for the RIAA to blame poor sales on. Second of all, there is a price where everyone (ok most everyone) could be happy. The problem is there was a hefty price and a massive profit increase that came with CDs. The recording industry wants to keep that. The ususal figure I hear is somewhere around $.50 a song the majority of folks say they'd just buy them that P2P wouldn't be worth the hassle and disappointment. This still makes for a nice profit for the recording industry (more than vinyl, but less than the inflated CD profit). There are clear ways the recording industry could be jumping on the bandwagon and getting a boost out the trend but instead...... well questionable business practices and the recording industry go back to it's very beginnings. Frank Sinatra's mob ties didn't come from his ethnic heritage.

[Gazorgan]

Kazaa and other P2P's have music? Where? I thought they all had the same 200 porn clips That and a pair of 175 MB AVI's of very current movies.

[Ducatti20]

I may be incorrect in this, and by all means correct me if I'm wrong. I am/was under the impression that Kazaa is based outside the US and therefore is not required to abide by US copyright laws. I understand that ISP's can track our movements, but if the actions are taking place on a network outside the US can they legally do anything other than threaten? Like I said, I'm probably wrong about this, but the great thing about this site is my ability to be wrong and be corrected!!! :P

[Gazorgan]

(Assuming your in the US) Your in the US aren't you? The traffic is traveling partially through the US? The master servers being outside the US just means a judge can't shut them down.

[BJ_M]

THE USA says (under its various new laws) that ANY traffic , ANY where pretty well MAY hop through the USA .. therefore its all under USA law ...

i didn't make this up -- Orwellian as it sounds

[exarkun5001]

Some people have said that Digital Media will stop because of p2p, and stealing others work or "art." This simply is not true. I for one own about 38 DVD's and countless VHS movies. I have friends who have more, and my father owns about 380+ movies on DVD. Now why would you ever do this? Spend money when you don't have to? Well, the reality is, that most people understand that if you don't buy a product and support who you're getting your entertainment from, there will eventually be no more products available. I for one, have no problem downloading a song or two off of "Kazaa", "Direct Connect", "LimeWire", "WinMX", or "IRC"...but the music that I keep on my Hard Drive for any length of time and listen to on a regular basis has always been bought. The same is true with movies. I also play video games, I have no problem downloading a game to see if I like it, and then buying when I decide its something I will play alot. WarCraft III is currently one of the best selling games of all time. I own two copies, for me and my little brother so that we can play online when he comes over to my house. Why would I do this? Because I want to see more Blizzard Games. There is very little danger for most companies that put out GOOD media. Now as for "Blair With Project Movies", "One Hit Wonder Musicians", and "Coaster Games" that would normally make a swift profit and later be looked back on as crap, THEY are in trouble. This is perhaps the reason that some of the large music companies are upset, because they know how lame these musicians are and how there is no way to make money off of them if nobody buys the CD because there's only one good song on it. Digital Media is not in danger any longer. People that put out lame products are, however, in danger of being out of business.

And there are just cheap bastards who don't buy anything because they're....well bastards.

[sammie]

Actually, I don't participate in P2P. Just a pain and too great a virus risk, but the couple of times I've been on, I think Gazorgan's point is pretty accurate.

As to the last one about Kazaa being based overseas, you are partially right. Although recent cases have said that since Kazaa operates in the US it can be sued. Of course they could just sit accross the ocean and thumb their noses but......

The bigger problem is that in order to share files, the file has to get sent to you or by you. How does the "internet" know where to send it? Your IP address. Different P2P engines are better or worse at masking this. As I recall Kazaa isn't particulary good. And no masking could ever be perfect unless you take some very involved percautions. The point is that with an IP address and a time you are on, many ISPs can figure out who you are.

One ironic side point that several people who think deeper than the RIAA does on this is that P2P can actually be an exellent complement to their business. Make the mainstream commercial stuff available at a reasonable fee. Let P2P handle the not commercial, old out of print...etc. etc. stuff that is actually too expensive for the regular studios to bother with and wallah, only a small overlap, you get lots more happy music lovers and guess what, happy music lovers buy more music. How many movies make more money in video relase now than they do in the theatre?? And many of those the only significant revenue stream is through rentals.

[DEmberton]

Some people have said that Digital Media will stop because of p2p, and stealing others work or "art." This simply is not true. I for one own about 38 DVD's and countless VHS movies. I have friends who have more, and my father owns about 380+ movies on DVD.

True. I have a load of DVDs and more CDs than I care to think of. I've never gone in for downloading music, as I've got more than enough to listen to for background music or whatever, and if it's something new I really want, I'll go and buy it. A CD or a DVD is a product, and if it's something you're a fan of, then owning that product is good. I may be able to download the same thing in relatively low-quality MP3 or DivX format, but it just isn't the same.

The only thing I do download is TV shows that I can't get any other way, and aren't available on DVD. I want to pay for these, but they won't let me!

Dave