Mainconcept MPEG2 Encoder

[ShibaInu]

Hi all,

I downloaded the trial version of this encoder. After doing a little test with it I was very impressed with the results it yielded. I've been using TMPGEnc for a while now but I think this does a better job in shorter time. If there is someone out there who uses this encoder to backup their DVDs, please let me know your process so I can try it out on a full DVD. Also, please indicate what changes, if any, you made in the advanced settings... Thanks!

[energy80s]

Yes, I have recently got a copy of v1.3.1 and would like to see a guide for it. Must do a bit of a hunt around the web. The truth is out there!

[BJ_M]

1.4 will be out in a few weeks , then a guide will be done .. yes, it is a most excellent encoder ..

[dc91gt]

it works quite well. I use it with vegas video to export the movies I edit.
However, it's not as fast as cce.

-d

[q1aqza]

I only use the MainConcept version included with Premiere 6.5 (not the standalone version) and I find it does a fantastic job.

As dc91gt said, CCE is a faster encoder but in practical terms for encoding DV files I actually find the MainConcept much faster than CCE as it only needs to do 1-pass to give a fairly accurate average bitrate and VERY GOOD quality. To get the same average bitrate in CCE you need to 1-pass VBR (2-pass) - Quality is Very Good as usual.

A quick example of a recent test I did. It was a 20 minute PAL DV type 2 file (from camcorder) edited in Premiere 6.5 with various cuts and transitions (no video or audio effects).

For both tests (720 x 576), the bitrate I was using was min 1000, average 6200 and max 8000 and the audio was 48Khz at 224 .

1. MainConcept encoder.

i) Straight from the Premiere timeline (no pre-rendering) the encoder took 50 minutes to produce a complete multiplexed MPEG2 file ready for DVD authoring. This worked out at 0.4 real time speed.

Total time = 50 minutes

2. CCE 2.50 (framserved using AVISynth)

i) Export from Premiere timeline (no pre-rendering) to DV AVI file = 9.5 minutes
ii) CCE VBR 1-pass (actual 2-pass) took 56 minutes (which worked out approx 0.7 real time per pass, which is usual on my set up)

At this point I didn't bother any further as CCE has already taken longer but here are estimates of the next steps required to complete the job:
iii) Encode audio using TMPG with TooLame = 1.5 minutes (est).
iv) Restream the .mpv file to change the field order back to lower field first to match my source DV file (CCE always encodes higher field first) = 2 minutes (est.)
v) Mux the audio and video using BBMPEG or TMPG = 1.5 minutes (est)
vi) Time spent creating AVIsynth script, setting up TMPG for audio encoding, setting up Re-stream and setting up BBMPEG for muxing = 1.5 minutes in total (est.)

TOTAL time including estimates = 72 minutes

Conclusion
On a per pass comparison CCE is clearly faster than MainConcept but, if my calculations (and estimations) are correct then the whole process from timeline to producing a DVD compliant file it takes approx 64% longer using CCE and other programs, with much more manual intervention and disk space usage!
Even if you removed the time taken to export the timeline to make this comparison a little more fair then MainConcept is still faster overall with CCE/other progs still taking approx 26% longer.

Having said all this, I still use and favour CCE for re-encoding DVD Rips (my per pass encoding speed is approx 1.3 realtime and I re-use existing audio and no restream required). I am looking forward to trialling the new 1.4 standalone MainConcept encoder for DVD Rips to see how it compares.

[energy80s]

1.4 will be out in a few weeks , then a guide will be done .. yes, it is a most excellent encoder ..

Is 1.4 a free upgrade or will it cost us our lunch money for the next few weeks?

[pepegot1]

The MC encoder does not work well with DirectX 9.0
Experiment: Under DirectX 9.0

I captured, in DV2, using Scenalyzer. Then I made a small movie with Ulead Video Studio 6.02 (added effects titles, etc.). The codec used was MC 2.04. Rendered to the same format with VS 6.02 to obtain a DV2 file-MC 2.04 based. Now, I encoded to an XVCD format(Bitrate 1800 only change), using the MC Encoder. The resulting Mpg file would not play in two of my Media Players(Microsoft 7.1 & Elecard). Upgraded to Microsoft 9.0 and still no good. When I did the same thing using DirectX 8.1, I had no problems playing or burning-ever. It worked perfectly. Repeated the experiment with same the result.

I was able to test the two methods because of Drive Image. I just restored my DirectX 8.1 system drive, so I could try both DirectX 9 & DirectX 8.1, almost side by side.
The Demo Encoder does not work with Directx 9, as the only change to the system, was changing versions of DirectX. All my other projects, using MC Encoder and Directx 8.1, worked well.
I did a similar experiment with DV1 inputs with the same poor results.

Later, I burned this, nonplayable file, and got it to play in my DVD player by hitting the slow + button. Elecard plays it, if you whip it to the end and then back to the beginning. Very weird indeed, but not satifactory. I hope 1.4 fixes this annoying problem.

Has anyone else tried this with DirectX 9.0?

[sammie]

Like BJ_M I've been using and recommending people try MainConcept for a while now. It's extremely fast with good quality and while more expensive than TMPEGEnc, it is still very reasonably priced vs. CCE. Per my question at their website forum 1.4 will be a free upgrade.

I'd say at this point I'm starting to get results that are very equivalent to TMPEGEnc 2-pass in about 1/7 the time. If you compare it to TMPEGenc's 1-pass it's still about 4x as fast, with better results. I don't claim to be an expert at determining optimum settings for encoders and there are a lot of options available with MainConcept, so I think others will be able to do a lot better than I, especially if there starts to be the group expertise available like there is for TMPEGEnc

[BJ_M]

1.4 will be out in a few weeks , then a guide will be done .. yes, it is a most excellent encoder ..

Is 1.4 a free upgrade or will it cost us our lunch money for the next few weeks?

free upgrade

[fingernailX]

Has anyone been able to get the plugin to work with flask or xmpeg? I have both the ligos and cce plugins working working with flask and have Vegas Video 3.0c and the plugin working but can't seem to get the premiere version working with flask. Any advice would be appreciated. Also any speed comparisons on VV timeline out versus Prem 6.5 timeline out?

[dc91gt]

I only use the MainConcept version included with Premiere 6.5 (not the standalone version) and I find it does a fantastic job.

As dc91gt said, CCE is a faster encoder but in practical terms for encoding DV files I actually find the MainConcept much faster than CCE as it only needs to do 1-pass to give a fairly accurate average bitrate and VERY GOOD quality. To get the same average bitrate in CCE you need to 1-pass VBR (2-pass) - Quality is Very Good as usual.

A quick example of a recent test I did. It was a 20 minute PAL DV type 2 file (from camcorder) edited in Premiere 6.5 with various cuts and transitions (no video or audio effects).

For both tests (720 x 576), the bitrate I was using was min 1000, average 6200 and max 8000 and the audio was 48Khz at 224 .

1. MainConcept encoder.

i) Straight from the Premiere timeline (no pre-rendering) the encoder took 50 minutes to produce a complete multiplexed MPEG2 file ready for DVD authoring. This worked out at 0.4 real time speed.

Total time = 50 minutes

2. CCE 2.50 (framserved using AVISynth)

i) Export from Premiere timeline (no pre-rendering) to DV AVI file = 9.5 minutes
ii) CCE VBR 1-pass (actual 2-pass) took 56 minutes (which worked out approx 0.7 real time per pass, which is usual on my set up)

At this point I didn't bother any further as CCE has already taken longer but here are estimates of the next steps required to complete the job:
iii) Encode audio using TMPG with TooLame = 1.5 minutes (est).
iv) Restream the .mpv file to change the field order back to lower field first to match my source DV file (CCE always encodes higher field first) = 2 minutes (est.)
v) Mux the audio and video using BBMPEG or TMPG = 1.5 minutes (est)
vi) Time spent creating AVIsynth script, setting up TMPG for audio encoding, setting up Re-stream and setting up BBMPEG for muxing = 1.5 minutes in total (est.)

TOTAL time including estimates = 72 minutes

Conclusion
On a per pass comparison CCE is clearly faster than MainConcept but, if my calculations (and estimations) are correct then the whole process from timeline to producing a DVD compliant file it takes approx 64% longer using CCE and other programs, with much more manual intervention and disk space usage!
Even if you removed the time taken to export the timeline to make this comparison a little more fair then MainConcept is still faster overall with CCE/other progs still taking approx 26% longer.

Having said all this, I still use and favour CCE for re-encoding DVD Rips (my per pass encoding speed is approx 1.3 realtime and I re-use existing audio and no restream required). I am looking forward to trialling the new 1.4 standalone MainConcept encoder for DVD Rips to see how it compares.

CCE under video options lets you choose the field order to encode to.

-d

[q1aqza]

It doesn't make any difference. It always encodes top field first even when you uncheck that box under video options. It is a known 'feature' of CCE. V2.64 also does the same, I haven't tried it on v2.66.

Regardless of the field order, the fact that MainConcept can achieve very good quality and gives accurate average bitrate in a single pass, whereas CCE needs 2 passes, then MainConcept is actually faster getting to the end result.

I'm not knocking CCE, I use it all the time re-encoding DVD rips but when it comes to PAL DV encoding MainConcept IMHO is the better option.