Hard Drive Size

[mullet34]

I have searched and had no luck finding a lot of info on the amount of hard drive space I will need for capturing video. I am planning on weekly 3 hour captures that are lossless using HUFFYHUV. I read one article that claimed I would need about 500MB per minute, so I am thinking I will need at least a 100 GIG hard drive. Is that fairly accurate? I would like to get a smaller one, but I want to get a good quality capture, since I will be backing up mainly football games that I will convert to DVD and I will be watching these games for many, many years. Any ideas or suggestions?

[jesterspet535]

I have found that with huffy, if you figure on around 6mb/sec you should get a fairly good estimate.

and 3 hours = (60 seconds * 60 minutes) * 3 = 10800 seconds

10800 * 6 = 64800mb or 64gb

keep in mind that this does not account for you actually editing the file. editing the file requires about the same amount of disk space as the original. so double that an you get 128gb of drive space needed to capture & edit. after this is done you can join you segmnets together, compress them with a different codec (divx5 for example) and save it to another disk.

[jesterspet535]

almost forgot to add, that you will also need to run an OS that does not have a 4gb limit on file sizes. Huffy creates monster sized files in no time flat. Run NTFS or ext(2/3).

[JE]

You can capture with a program called avi_io (really nice).
Then u can use Avisynth to edit, which then u wont need the extra space for editing I would check that out if i was you, its really simple once you get the hang of it.

[FiEND]

lies i tell ya, all lies

I capture about 5 shows a day in huffy so here's the results.

1 hour @ 352*240 = 10GB (160MB/min)
1 hour @ 640*480 = 26GB (425MB/min)
1 hour @ 720*480 = 33GB (550MB/min)

these are just an average though, seems to vary about 10% sometimes.

the main thing to think about is your quality needs. especially if you have a DVD burner or not. 3 hours of 720*480 is gonna be a very tough squeeze on a 4.7GB DVD... even worse if you have to put it on 4 or 5 cdr's.

lots of end formats to choose from which once you decide on one, you will know the resolution you need to capture at and then what size HD you need.

[The village idiot]

OK here's my 1 cent on this topic. Get the LARGEST hard drive that you can possibly afford. AVI captures can be very large. 3 hours of DV (more compressed) would run you about 38-40GB, then you need room to edit and convert. If you are doing multiple captures each week, things could get piled up. And I agree with the statement about the room on a DVD, 3 hours at full DVD spec would very likely be very grainy or blocky.

[Ekin]

Ok guys I need help here. From reading this thread I understand that capturing using Huffuv @ 720*480 (DVD)will create a HUGE AVI file. That's ok for me b/c I have like 4 or 5 120Gigs HD soo it's ok. But My guestion is...If i capture using Huffuv @ 480*480 (SVCD) I will get an AVI file that is much smaller than capturing 720*480 right ???? I believe so. But if I use the 480*480 avi file that I've captured and encode it to MPEG using DVD Template in TMPGenc. Would I get the same QUALITY as if I use the 720*480 captured avi file and encode it w/ TMPGenc DVD Template ??? My whole idea was just trying to save HD space while capturing.

P.S. Can anybody tells me what there's "Audio Compression" in Virtual Dub is ?? I use the max PCM 48,000 khz, 16 Bit Stereo 187 kb/sec...Is that good or bad ????

[DigiToast]

Capturing to 480x480 is going to result in smaller filesizes than 720x480 for sure, but the quality will definitely not be the same. Basically, if you're capturing at 480x480 and outputting it off of TMPGenc into 720x480, then TMPGenc will have to do do a lot of extra work to stretch the 480x480 file to fill up the new 720x480 file... thus resulting in quality loss. It's all pretty much the same thing as if you were to take a picture in Photoshop (or some other editor) and try to resize the picture to a larger size.. you start losing quality. If you have the hard disk space to do 720x480 captures and it's fast enough to not drop frames while doing so, then I'd suggest using that capture resolution.

[monoxide77]

I have like 4 or 5 120Gigs HD

???

[Ekin]

DigiToast: thanks for the reply. But i have another question. I heard that when we do capturing the AVI files looks interlace on the computer monitors. But after we encode into MPEG and put it on CD or DVD, it looks ok right ??? Because my captured AVI comes out all interlaced with lots of linessss....


monoxide77: What I mean is that I have at least 4 or 5 120Gig Hard Drive. So it's ok for me to caputre 720*480 for the best possible quality I can get...

P.S. Is Huffuv use with Virtual Dub the best codec to use to get the best possible quality for AVI?? And is CCE the best encoder to use to encode AVI into MPEG without any quality loss ???

[Craig Tucker]

DigiToast: thanks for the reply. But i have another question. I heard that when we do capturing the AVI files looks interlace on the computer monitors. But after we encode into MPEG and put it on CD or DVD, it looks ok right ??? Because my captured AVI comes out all interlaced with lots of linessss....

PC monitor is progressive display so does not display interlaced video correctly, hence the jagged lines. TV is interlaced display and so can display an interlaced video correctly. If you are mainly going to view the video on TV leave it interlaced.

P.S. Is Huffuv use with Virtual Dub the best codec to use to get the best possible quality for AVI?????

IMHO Yes

And is CCE the best encoder to use to encode AVI into MPEG without any quality loss ???

CCE and TMPGEnc are probrably the two best encoders available to home users. There's not much in it quality wise, but CCE is much quicker than TMPGEnc.

[Ekin]

Ohh ok...thanks...CraigTucker.

Ok I got my video figured out..well at least a general idea. But I still have more questions.

1. How do I set Virtual Dub to capture segment. What I mean is how do I set it up so that VD stop at a certain time or file size so that i can change my Hard Drive.??? Please so me in details...

2. How do i cut AVI in VD or what programs do i use to cut avi.???

3. Ok I need suggestion here. I want to put my captured onto a DVD. Well after encode into Mpeg and demux into m2v and ac3 to import into Maestro,ReelDVD or Scenarist (I have all 3). I understand the part on how to get m2v. I just have to encode avi into mpeg and use TMPGenc to demux it right ?? I think that's right. But the audio. How am I gonna get ac3 from avi or mpeg. Well all I need is a .wav file from the avi or mpeg to be able to encode to ac3. So that's my question. How do I get wav from avi or mpeg ??? If I can't get wav out of avi or mpeg then i guess I would have to use mp2.

P.S. Which one is bigger in file size ?? ac3 or mp2 ?? Ohh yeah which is better in quality ??? ac3 or mp2 ???

Thank you so much...if all the questions are aswered then i guess i am ready to go !!!!!!

[Greg12]

I have found that 2 channel AC3 and 2 channel MPEG (all u need if u captured from anything, ripping DVD's is different) are both around the same size.


However AC3 is compatible with 100% of players by it'sself. Some players will not play mp2 audio unless their is an AC3 or LPCM (huge files) track.

[Donovan]

Ekin,

1. Play with the "stop conditions" and "capture drives" in "capture mode". I have a lot of HD space (1x200Gig as a slave on my primary IDE and 2x100Gig on my RAID channels) so I can capture a 90 minute PAL tape at 720x576 using huffy or uncompressed. I work on Huffy using a max of 750MB per minute (usually ends up at approx 650MB per minute depending on the compression achieved. I usually break in up into 15 minute captures though.

2. Open your AVI. Use mark in and mark out to specify the range that you wish to cut. Ensure that your video and audio options are correct (compression, filters etc), and file --> save as AVI. I usually leave both video and audio in "full processing mode".
If you want to extract more than one clip (or split into more than one AVI) you can batch your extracts and run them as a single job later.

3. To extract WAV from an AVI, use VD, open the AVI and select file --> save wav... - it's that easy.

The above are just guidelines to indicate how powerful and simple VD is to use. I have only been using it for 2 months and am just scratching the surface. Check out the how-to guide on the left. Also, follow some links on the net - there are plenty of guides out there.

Good luck from another newbie.

[Ekin]

OK thank you for all of the guys that helped me. I've finally started to captured a 49 min. clip... But still more questions... Ok from using Virtual Dub and Huffuv @ 720*480 and PCM audio at Max bitrate 4800. I got an AVI that's kinda weird I don't know if you guys can help me or not. OK my 20.2gig 48min capture avi came out really slow in the video. What i mean is I think the Video is slow while playing w/ Win Media Player. How is that ?? I set my fps at 29,97 but it still looks slower than original. And at first the audio was kept in sync. But up about 20 or 30min into the avi clip it started to be out of sync like 2 sec. I think it's cause by the fast "dropped frame" during capture. ????

I don't know why the "frame dropped" started about 20min into the clip. When I started to capture the "frame dropped" is really steady. It's at 0. But like for 5 min it's to 1..then 10min 2 ect.. but when around 20 or 30 min or so it started to dropped really fast. I mean it just keep on counting up...By the end of my 48 min capture file (which is only half of my VHS) the framedropped is up to ~3000...So what is that ?????

So what should I do now ?? change my Huffuv codec to something else ?? or just capture as "uncompress"??? or change Virtual Dub to another program ?? Please HELPPPPPP !!!

Oh one more thing, How high should the "framedropped" can go up to until we all know we should just stop capturing b/c it's worthless.. ?? ~3000 droppedframes ??? or more ???

[Donovan]

Dropping 1 frame every 5 minutes or so is par for the course - I find I sometimes drop because of poor quality footage (and I tend to drop a frame or 2 a minute). As to when it too much, well if I drop more than 3 or 4 frames in a second or 2 I generally stop the capture, defrag the drive, rewind my tape for a second or so and start a new capture file.

What could have happening in your case is that your harddrive was at the point where it started writing in amongst other files (was it defraged before capture), or (as happened to me once) the anti-virus software decided to intiate a full system scan. Your screen saver may have kicked in - these are the more obvious things.

As for the audio, VD has a "lock video stream to audio" setting which is used to keep the audio in sync when frames are dropped - look for it under capture --> settings. You can also set your drop % limit here.

Personnally - there are not many better programs than VD for capture. As for Huffy - well it's pretty much the best lossless codec around. What is your CPU usage with Huffy - you appear to have a 1.7Ghz PC which should cope with Huffy adequately !! And if your HD was the bottleneck - going to uncompressed will only make things worse.

What to do - use VD to split the good part of your capture to another AVI. Defrag your drive, setup up your capture and capture the next 20 - 30 minutes of your video. You can always combine them (VD does this too) later.

[Ekin]

DonoVan thanks for the info. I'll do another capture tonight when i get home from work. And i'll definitely defrag my HD, turn off my Norton.

I think I did click the "lock video stream to audio" but I'll try again and see what happens. Oh what do u mean by "You can also set your drop % limit here. " ?? What does that do ? and what's it for ???

So I guess I should stick w/ Huffuv. When I captured VD saids that my CPU Usage is around 76%. I have a 1.7Ghz PC with a Sound Blaster Audigy and a DVD-R burner. And as for hard drive space...there's no problem for me..I have at least 4 120gigs hard drive..so i can split up my capture movie and put it on the other harddrives.

Thanks....I'll post my results later tonight.

[Craig Tucker]

"You can also set your drop % limit here. " ?? What does that do ? and what's it for ???

If your % of dropped frames gets above your specified level the capture is aborted

[Ekin]

Ok soo i should put ??? .....% ??? 4% ??? What the max % I should put..?

[Craig Tucker]

I don't bother using this option, as I dont drop any frames anyway. But I think if I did drop some frames during capture I would like to decide for myself whether the capture was worth keeping rather than having the software decide for me. I know you are specifying the % rate, but you may for one reason or another have a large amount of frame drops all together and the rest of the capture might be fine and acceptable to you. Well this batch of frame drops might push it over the limit specified and abort the capture.

[rhegedus]

Forget about what you need now, just plan for the future. Get the biggest HD you can afford - you never know when you will need it. The IBM Deskstar 120G is a peach, and I hear that there is a 180G one coming soon.

Good luck,

Rob

p.s. Just remember that 5 years ago, a 5G HD was considered huge. What will we be needing in 5 years time?

[Donovan]

rhegedus,

As Ekin said, HD space is not an issue for him. While on the topic though the Western Digital "Special Edition" drives with 8mb cache are no gimic. I have a 200Gig version and it's almost twice as fast as my 2mb cache WD 80Gig drive (50MB/s as opposed to 30MB/s). I prefer to do my capture on a 2 x WD 100Gig 2mb cache RAID drive - twice the 80Gig speed. I would love to RAID two of the 8mb cache 200Gig drives - but at $400 a piece it's not an option (at least until xmas...)

craigtucker - wrt you not dropping frames - perhaps you can understand my other post about the aiw 7500 now. Also, will memory be a factor in dropping frames - I tend to drop 1 or 2 a minute but it might be due to the quality of the 8mm tape (and the amateur filming). I have 512MB and am considering another 512 - will it be worth it?

[rhegedus]

As Ekin said, HD space is not an issue for him.

True, but then the question was posted by mullet34.

Regards,

Rob

[Craig Tucker]

The IBM Deskstar 120G is a peach, and I hear that there is a 180G one coming soon.

The 180GB deskstar is already available, but at a cost. It's almost the same price as 2x120GB deskstars.

[Donovan]

same forum - just a more recent discussion. noted though.

[Craig Tucker]

craigtucker - wrt you not dropping frames - perhaps you can understand my other post about the aiw 7500 now. Also, will memory be a factor in dropping frames - I tend to drop 1 or 2 a minute but it might be due to the quality of the 8mm tape (and the amateur filming). I have 512MB and am considering another 512 - will it be worth it?

When I say I drop no frames that is not entirely accurate, I think I drop 1 about every 4 or 5 minutes. I think vdub does this to keep the audio synched. I upgraded recently from 512MB to 1 GB of ram, no difference in frame drops, as they were at the minimum before the upgrade.

[Treebeard]

Forget about what you need now, just plan for the future. Get the biggest HD you can afford - you never know when you will need it. The IBM Deskstar 120G is a peach, and I hear that there is a 180G one coming soon.

Good luck,

Rob

p.s. Just remember that 5 years ago, a 5G HD was considered huge. What will we be needing in 5 years time?

How about a 250GB HD

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?tabtype=rb&product%5Fcode=298701

[Donovan]

I would stick with a 7200rpm drive at least for quality capture. The maxtor in the link above is 5400rpm - great for archiving purposes though !!

[rhegedus]

The 180GB deskstar is already available, but at a cost. It's almost the same price as 2x120GB deskstars.

Where from? There's no mention of it on the IBM site:

http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/desk/ds120gxp.htm

Regards,

Rob

[rhegedus]

How about a 250GB HD

I'll be pretty annoyed if 2x today is all that there will be in 5 years! HD sizes seem to be jumping by about 40 to 60G every 6 months. Maybe, just maybe we will finally have a 1000G drive......imagine partitioning and formatting that bruiser. Do you think you could heat the house with it?

Regards,

Rob