Justify DMR-E20/30 purchase

[bzkod]

Did a lot of research into the E-20/30 and am now wondering if it is really as good a product as I originally thought.

Main purpose of this purchase would be to transfer vhs home video to DVD-R and bring my commercial vhs tapes to dvd-r. BUT, most movies are over 120 min. and from what i hear, recording using the -E20/30 in the 4&6hr modes suck. so that means I'd have to split up most movies onto two dvd-r disks!

The question is this... what's the difference then between this and s/vcd where you also have to split up the movie onto two disks? Yes, quality would be slightly better, but I can nearly match that quality by compressing into mpeg1 over 2 CD-Rs.

A commercial DVD can fit many more hours of super quality video on 1 DVD. Y can't the -E20/30 match this? It sounds to me that either the compression algorithm of the -E20/30 sucks, or the quality of the write laser sucks. how else can you explain the lousy storage?

I guess I'm forced to wait until a better desktop dvd recorder comes out, one that can actually fit a 2 1/2 hour movie on one disk (at least). I don't think that is too much to ask.

[Eug]

According to the reviews out there the E30 is one of the best when it comes to MPEG quality on a set top recorder.

Note that a commercial DVD can have 2.5 hrs of excellent video on it because it is TWO discs, sort of. ie. Most of these commercial DVDs are dual-layer discs, which holds in the range of 8.5 GB. You can't expect a home machine to match on 4.7 GB discs what a commercially pressed dual-layer DVD does on 8.5 GB discs.

The difference with SVCD is that SVCD is not as good, and more importantly, it requires a lot of work (comparatively) just to produce discs which have much less DVD player compatibility than DVD-R.

Note that the E30 has a "Flexible Recording" mode to fit the movie on the disc. Thus you'll get essentially a 2.5 hr mode for that 2.5 hr movie, which presumably would be better than the 4-hr mode.

[bzkod]

I read that the -E30 has 4 record speeds: xp sp lp ep (best-worst).

In transfering a 2hr and 2min movie from VHS to DVD-R using the -E30 I would have to put the -E30 in LP (4hr) mode just for that 2min. over. Of course I wouldn't want to do that bec. i'm losing lots of quality. so the solution would seem solved bec. the -E30 can record VBR via their Flexible Recording Mode. BUT then i read the official description of FRM from Crutchfield:

"Flexible Recording Mode automatically adjusts the recording speed so the programmed recording fits on the disc using the best possible recording quality. This is used with timer recording only."

The last line would indicate that you indeed have to set to LP mode when recording 2hr, 2min movie unless its a timer recording. My question after all this is:

When using Flexible Recording Mode and say you're recording 2.5 hrs from TV, does the -E30 record at a VBR between SP and LP speeds, or would it choose the LP speed bec. 2.5 hr wouldn't fit on DVD-R at SP speed????

[tom28]

It will record in between sp and LP, it will not select LP, for FR.

[Eug]

I believe the way it works is that it actually selects a bit rate range between SP's and LP's bit rate to fit it in the specified time.

With the older E20, you can only use the timer for this feature. Still doable, but a hassle. On the E30, I'm told they've corrected this and you can use the FR mode with or without the timer.

See here.

[Kusanagi]

On the E30, I'm told they've corrected this and you can use the FR mode with or without the timer.

See here.

Yes, you can use the FR mode without the timer activated on the E-30.


Kusanagi

[bzkod]

Thanks for the link to DV-info! and thanks tom for the reply. I put a post on dv-info for secondary confirmation from vidguy (who bought one recently) that FR mode is no longer only for timed recordings. There r work-arounds, but they're a pain.

My only concern before purchase is being able to record in at least, or near, SP mode (between SP & LP is fine bec. i don't think they would be much quality loss) when bringing my VHS movies longer than 2hrs over to DVD-R.

[bzkod]

Cool, Kusanagi. Guess I'm good to go! I always get too careful before purchasing electronics. always second guessing and needing to know everything beforehand!

[cachorrao]

I just got the DMR-E30 a few days ago for the same purpose(to put my VHS on DVD). I've very happy with it so far. Basicly the quality of the VHS is what you get on teh DVD. I didn't really see much differnce on the 4 hr mode, but the video was really good quality. I'msure if the quality is marginal then it's probably not goign to look as good. So far I used 5 memorex DVD-R disks. THey all came out real well. The only time I can really see any shift in quality is when I freeze the frame, but I'm also wathcing on a "53 tv.

[bzkod]

cachorrao, how'd u get past the macrovision on the VCR? Do u need one of those "video clarifiers" that i see on ebay? if so, any tips on where to pick one up?

Thanks!

[Eug]

cachorrao, how'd u get past the macrovision on the VCR? Do u need one of those "video clarifiers" that i see on ebay? if so, any tips on where to pick one up?

Thanks!

Well Macrovision is on the tape, not the VCR. If the tape doesn't have Macrovision then it won't pass Macrovision. I'm not sure if this is what cachorrao is doing but, if your tapes are just home movies and stuff then you're good to go.

By the way, Macrovision isn't the only form of analogue copy protection. Even with something to remove Macrovision, you may not be able to backup commercial DVDs.

[cachorrao]

Most of the stuff I'm transfering doesn't have macro, but a few do. I have a video clarifier that I used and it worked just like it did when I copied them on to VHS. I've heard that some of the calrifiers won't work when copying DVD's. I haven't tried to copy any protected DVD's yet so I'm not sure if mine will work or not.

[houtx67]

My E-30 will record between the SP and LP mode based on how much time you set it for (i.e., where it will set the bitrate, or where it will cap off the bitrate for VBR). I have found that for 2.2 HR movies in VBR the bitrate jumps ~ between 1.9K to 3.9K (but looks great on my 32" TV). In VBR, there will actually be time left on the end of the disc due to this variable rate not always being at the "cap".

One problem I found is that in FR recording mode, I can only hit pause once. It will continue to the end of the specified time after releasing the pause (pause will not work again). If I hit stop however, I can reset the VBR for the remainder of the disc (i.e., for a trailer, special features) and record again. It will create a new "title" that is selectable on the finalized disc (whereas pauses on a DVD-R do not create a seperate title/chapter after finalization). I have only tried this on commercial DVD back-ups so far, so I am not sure if it will do the same with home VHS or commercial laserdiscs (no copy protection). I did find that my macrovision defeater does not work with some newer discs (Count of Monte Cristo), presumably due to CGMS type protection. I am looking into hacking one of my players for macrovision so that I can use the S-Video input on commercial backups (my defeater has only composite video).

I will say that if I realized that I could have gotten the HS2 (with Tivo-like harddrive) for ~ $200 more, I probably would have waited. But I am still very satisfied with the E-30 despite the CGMS.

[Cyrax9]

I'm also about to buy a DMR-e30S at the end of the month to copy "POwer Rangers' VHS to DVD-R, but I have soem questions about the DMR-E30S.


1. Can I "Copy" a VHS Cassette to DVD-RAM, edit the DVD-RAM Disc on the DMR-E30S, and than "Burn" the edit (i.e. Commercial's Removed) to DVD-R?

2. I know the E30S has Several Playback modes, I've heard XP, SP, LP, EP, but what does each "Mode" look like, is the 4 Hour LP Mode better than a VHS Tape recorded in EP mode, or does the Video still look bad?

3. If I "edit" a VHS tape onto DV and I want to "Re-capture" the VHS onto DVD, do I have to Connect the DMR-E30S to my PC, ro is there a "Wireless Transmitter" of some kind I can use to send the Video from my PC, to the TV and "capture" it off of the TV?

4. If Possible, Can I Capture Video in the 16: 9 Enchanced Ratio, and is it worth it?

5. Does the E30S support Dolby 5.1, or Dolby Digital?


Thank you in Advance for a response to these questions. I ahvea Stack of VHS Tapes and they look aweful when I just "Capture" them abck to VHS.

[oldfart13]

1. Can I "Copy" a VHS Cassette to DVD-RAM, edit the DVD-RAM Disc on the DMR-E30S, and than "Burn" the edit (i.e. Commercial's Removed) to DVD-R?

This is actually simpler to do with the HS2 as you can copy to the hard drive and edit out the commercials then burn to DVD-RAM or DVD-R. The advantage of the DVD-RAM disc here is that you can then just pull the disc out to make additional copies in the future. To do it with the E30, you have to have a compatible PC drive that will accept the DVD-RAM discs. There aren't many and your OS may not accept the drive anyway...

3. If I "edit" a VHS tape onto DV and I want to "Re-capture" the VHS onto DVD, do I have to Connect the DMR-E30S to my PC, ro is there a "Wireless Transmitter" of some kind I can use to send the Video from my PC, to the TV and "capture" it off of the TV?

Why bother? The HS2 has DV in...

4. If Possible, Can I Capture Video in the 16: 9 Enchanced Ratio, and is it worth it?

5. Does the E30S support Dolby 5.1, or Dolby Digital?


As I understand it, no on both accounts. Check my other posts on sources of info on the HS2 under my username...

Save the bother that the E30 would give you. Spend the extra $200 - $250 and get the HS2...

[oldfart13]

Here is a good source for info on the upcoming Toshiba RD-X2 recorder:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165397&highlight=RDX2

It has some options not on the HS2 like Dolby Digital record but it has no firewire in on it. These units should be hitting shelves in the US before too long.

[thxkid]

I have the E10 and the E20 and make any copies I want that be from SVHS, RAM, DVD, DVD-R, Laser Disc, Dishnet and in 1, 2 4, 6 hr or the really cool FR speed that allows you to fit let say a 2 hr 10 min. movie on perfect without using the 4 hr mode. you have to use your timer but 1 mimute before its gonna shut down just stop the recording walaa you have a much better recoring than using the longer 4 hour mode this also works great for 90minite movies also.
I edit movies all the time on Ram and edit it back and forth, FYI use I hour mode and use 2 rams for better quality when dubbing back to DVD-R.
I would not give up these 2 machines for nothing.!!