Frame Drops - To Eliminate, once and for all. (#6,#7,#8)

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #1
--------------

Afternoon all.

I am currently embarking on a journey to eliminate the FrameDrops during capturing.
The Motherboard/CPU specs that I'm currently using in this approach
is my current system for my 2nd pc.

Motherboard / CPU:
* ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Sound Cards:
* Built-in AC'97 (turned off for this test)
* I/O Magics' "MagicSound PCI" (to be used in another test)
Capture Cards:
* DC10+
* PCPVR
* WTVGO
* ATWVE
Software for Capturing video:
* Studio
* AVI_IO
* VDUB
Sources:
* DVD - used in testing FrameDrops before VHS capturing starts
* VHS - of store bought movies
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are:
* - - - stay stuned - - -
know issue at this time are:
* vdub: does not work w/ my PCPVR and WTVGO cards

Success/Notes are:
* using DC10+
* Studio for capturing --> w/ 6000 as my bitrate setting
* Source: DVD Movie: 5th Element
* Capture Minutes: 30+
* FrameDrops: 0

My conclusions are:
* after 32 minutes, there were no FrameDrops.
...usually, my FrameDrops are more than 20, after 30 minutes
* I had my sound card (built-in on MB) DISABLED for this test.
reason being, to determine if sound card is the issue/cause of FrameDrops.
My conclusions are, it may have a dramatic affect on FrameDrops. My
next test will either prove this theory true or false - stay tuned!
.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am hoping that those who suffer this fate will indulge in this embarkment
that I am on. You can follow along and LEARN some things or not. Those of
you's that have my same MB/CPU will benefit most, as I will be posting (possibly)
a number of settings/tweaks etc. for you to use. In addition, you may find
that, should I succeed in ZERO FrameDrops, you MAY want to pick up the same
capture card and inherit my success
Those w/out my MB/CPU may still benefit from some of the settings/tweaks I
post.

As you may have noticed, I am also trying to be as neat or Organized as
possible. Lets see how long that lasts, he, he...

-vhelp
PS: I reserve the right to make changes/updates/revisions in a post on this
page, and Possibly on others as well for reasons being my own.

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #2
--------------

Evening all.

Ok, so here is my second bout w/ Frame Drops
Given NEW testing enviornment, the following are:

Motherboard / CPU: - ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Sound Cards: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI (currently testing, seems fair'er)
Capture Cards for this test: - PCPVR
IRQS: - no conflits of interupts at this time
Software for Capturing video: - AVI_IO and VDUB
Sources used: - DVD - used in testing FrameDrops before VHS capturing starts
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are: - N / A
know issue at this time are: - NONE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Success/Notes are for 2nd PC:
IRQS status: - No Conflits
MB bult-in Sound: - Disabled
SoundCard: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI w/ fair to good results
CARD: - PCPVR
Source: DVD Movie: - 5th Element
Cap Sofware: - VDUB @ 720x480
Codec: - Huffy w/ Predict Left (fastest), Predict Left
Capture Minutes: - 32:30 minutes/sec
FrameDrops: - 13

My conclusions are:
* after 32 minutes, there were 13 Frames Droped, at regular intervals per 3
minutes and a few seconds here and there.
* also, it doesn't matter WHAT resolution I had my capturing done at, as
I still droped at regular intervals, and at the same interval time!!
* However, w/out sound, NO drops.
* have a theory that when Sound is turned ON, that extra data is being
written to HD and there is your Frame Drop, but I could be wrong or on to
something close, or it could be that some timing is taking place w/ sound
card and motherboard and disk writing, etc.
* Again, no frame drops when sound is turnd OFF.
* Also, if SOUND is turned back on in AVI_IO or VDUB, Frame Drops are
again, at regular intervals. This sounds like a timing issue or something
that is refreshing on the MotherBoard somewheres. No settings could do
anything to decrease the Frame Drop - - they just continued to be at regular
intervals, EVEN if I turned OFF the video by unplugging the S-Video or
RCA plugs, the Frame Drops would continue at regular intervals - - no, I
did and do not have massive Frame Drops when I pull these plugs.
* Well, so far, I've tried: bulit-in sound card; i/o magics pci sound; and
Vortex SQ1500 sound card.
* have stopped any additional testing I was planning on doing with my 2nd
pc because I want to encode that video that had the 13 frame drops in it to
see if I notice any jerks or missing frames during DVD play. I need to
see for myself if these few frames will actually show up in an final encode
during DVD playing on TV. I will watch as a casual viewer, and then I will
disect the 30+ minutes video for any anamilies, etc. I have never really
done this with any of my videos.
* well, the 32+ minutes video is encoding as I write this, and it's so far,
1:27 min/sec remaining w/ 5 min completed already, case anyone's interested
is that fact.

Other Notes:
* on my 1st pc, I did some testing as well, using the ATW card.
througput seem to be much better, but I suspect that it's due to the fact
that I have an AGP video card, while on my 2nd pc, I have an older gen. PCI
video card. That was my 3rd test, which I may post in another post here.
In short, my 1st pc performd much better, though it is an XP 1700+ vs.
my 2nd pc's XP 1800+

...usually, my FrameDrops are more than 20, after 30 minutes
I said this in my previous post, and this seems to be somewhat correct so far.
>> * I had my sound card (built-in on MB) DISABLED for this test.
>> reason being, to determine if sound card is the issue/cause of FrameDrops.
>> My conclusions are, it may have a dramatic affect on FrameDrops. My
>> next test will either prove this theory true or false - stay tuned!
Well, I've proved this theory correct. (see above)
.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can make these pages more meaningfull and orderly, I will, but only
time will tell, as it's not easy... I keep on comming up w/ ideas of things
to include etc. Anyways.

-vhelp
PS: I reserve the right to make changes/updates/revisions in a post on this
page, and Possibly on others as well for reasons being my own.

[snowmoon]

Here is an interesing test. Don't capture audio and see how many frame drops you get. I'll bet you that you get none. Most capture software drops/adds frames to keep sync with the audio. Since consumer level sound cards are prone to drift this directly affects the number of frame drops.

So you should do your testing with and without sound to see if it makes a diffrence, then you know that that particular soundcard might be causing the drops.

[vhelp]

evening snowmoon,

Sorry, but I've already got you beat on this issue. You must of only scanned
through too quickly cause you missed it twice! he, he...

But, you are right, ZERO (as I've posted prevouly and done already) frames
dropped!!

I have it narrowed down to: MotherBoard and SoundCard and perhaps
a little of with the graphics card and harddrives interupts etc.

I am readying myself for another post of a 3rd test I did which involves
my 1st PC, but the catch is that the pc is slower! but performed BETTER
like 1 frame drop in every 10 minutes of capture vs. 1 in every 3.25 min
of capturing. That's the stumpper. Yes, as both MotherBoards are the
same: ECS K7S5A on BOTH!!

-vhelp

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #3
--------------

Good afternoon all.

Ok, so here is my Third bout w/ Frame Drops. Iv'e ben up for hours and hours
on this issue like you wouldn't believe - never this length in time though.
Another REVised testing enviornment, the following are:

Motherboard / CPU on 2nd PC: - ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Sound Cards: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI
Capture Cards for this test: - WTVGO
IRQS: - no conflits of interupts at this time
Software for Capturing video: - AVI_IO
Sources used: - DVD and VHS
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are: - N / A
know issue at this time are: - NONE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Success/Notes are for 2nd PC:
IRQS status: - No Conflits
MB bult-in Sound: - Disabled
SoundCard: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI w/ fair to good results
CARD: - WTVGO
Source 1: - DVD Movie: 5th Element
Source 2: - VHS Movie: Blue Streak
Cap Sofware: - AVI_IO @ 720x480
Codec: - NONE - YUV2
Capture Minutes: - 32:00 minutes/sec
FrameDrops: - 0

My conclusions are:
* after 32 minutes, there were 0 (ZERO) Frames Droped!!
I had to install and reinstall and re-reinstall VARIOUS capture card drivers
that I ended up loosing count. At one point, I installed the ATW driver
at least twice. And, various VERsions of Hauppauge drivers.
* Again, as i noted in a previous post, it doesn't matter WHAT resolution I capture
in, as frame drops are either 0 (ZERO) or they drop at regular intervals, but in
this TEST #3, frame drops were NONE.
* one other thing to note here is that I didn't really see any or AS MUCH noise
in the VHS capture this time, w/ the WTVGO card, for some reason or another. But, I
should think its fair to mention this, that during my caping test w/ the DVD and
SIMA unit, at some point during the capturing, I ranked out the DVD plug and
swaped it w/ the VCR's plug so that I could capture it in one straght pass instead
of stopping capture and restarting it again. I don't know if this had an affect
on quality of AVI capture file, but I did notice that during the capturing, it
was a bit clearer. But I did have great difficulty w/ the installation of drivers
and cards and between swapping out cards and software drivers, one may never
know to true outcome, unless I redo the process, which I will most likely have to
anywys for other testing reasons. But never the less, the clip looks just as good
as the DC10+ captures, grainy! So, this is good though.
* I'm encoding some of this right now, and will burn to CD (CVD) and will see how
the final quality looks. Oh, and not using any filtering. That's a bounus of
course, cause any filtering other than color (and that depends also) will add to
the encoding time.


Other Notes:
* As I've said in yesterdays (during TEST #2) post, ...
on my 1st pc, I did some testing as well, using the ATW card.
througput seem to be much better, but I suspect that it's due to the fact
that I have an AGP video card, while on my 2nd pc, I have an older gen. PCI
video card. That was my 3rd test, which I may post in another post here.
In short, my 1st pc performd much better, though it is an XP 1700+ vs.
my 2nd pc's XP 1800+
However the above, system crashed, and I lost pretty much all throughput
speed, etc. Now, I can't get the same minimum number of frame drops using the
same scenaro I used in during TEST #2
>> TEST #2
>> * have stopped any additional testing I was planning on doing with my 2nd
>> pc because I want to encode that video that had the 13 frame drops in it to
>> see if I notice any jerks or missing frames during DVD play. I need to
>> see for myself if these few frames will actually show up in an final encode
>> during DVD playing on TV. I will watch as a casual viewer, and then I will
>> disect the 30+ minutes video for any anamilies, etc. I have never really
>> done this with any of my videos.
TEST #2 (above)
Well, the final CVD video DID show those drops unfortunately. But, not all of them
were accounted for, as some may have ben hidden in the interlace or IVTC parts, but
none-the-less, they were there anyways.
.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can make these pages more meaningfull and orderly, I will, but only
time will tell, as it's not easy... I keep on comming up w/ ideas of things
to include etc. Anyways.

-vhelp
PS: I reserve the right to make changes/updates/revisions in a post on this
page, and Possibly on others as well for reasons being my own.

[jesterspet535]

after reading your posts, I think I may have a theory for you on your dropped frames.

When you were using VirtualDub, and capturing both sound and Video, did you notice that your datarate increased compared to capturing data only?

From trial and eror on my part, I have determined that I can stream 8mb of data to my harddrive without loosing frames, however once I push the upper end of 8mb/sec, I start to loose frames.

It is my opinion that this is due to the harddrive heads performing a thermal recalibration. Normally folks never see this as it only takes less than 1/10 of a second, and write buffering prevents your data from being lost. However when you are streaming data to the harddrive, your buffers no longer are able to handle the amount of incoming data, and are forced to drop either the new data coming in, or the oldest data in the buffer while the recalibration takes place. Thus producing frame dropage.

I currently am awaiting a IDE RAID controller to be delivered to me so that I can stripe many (8) drives and see if I cant avoid thermal recalibration by reducing the amount of data any single drive has to write, and thus reducing the amount of heat build up on any single drive.

This may be something worth looking into, as you seem to have tested everything esle and have reduced the amount of bottlenecks between your source data and desired output.

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #4
------------

Good afternoon again all.

This time, with a few smiles! I've concured the Frame Drop issue - I think!!
Hip, hip, hurry!! ...for he's the golly good fellow!! he, he.. .. ..

Ok, anyways, so much for parading and celibrating ah?

Ok, so here is my Fourth bout w/ Frame Drops. I've ben at it for hours and hours
of timeless circles, etc.
Another REVised testing enviornment, the following are:

Motherboard / CPU on 2nd PC: - ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Sound Cards: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI
CD-ROM Writer 24x10x40: - NEW I/O Magic Writer 24x10x40 CD-RW
Capture Cards for this test: - WTVGO
IRQS: - NONE
Software for Capturing video: - AVI_IO
Sources used: - DVD
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are: - N / A
know issue at this time are: - NONE
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Success/Notes are for 2nd PC:
IRQS status: - No Conflics
MB bult-in Sound: - Disabled
SoundCard: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI w/ fair to good results
CARD: - WTVGO
Source 1: - DVD Movie: 5th Element
Cap Sofware: - AVI_IO @ 720x480 --> the Winner!!
Codec: - NONE - YUV2
Audio: - 44, 16bit Stereo
Capture Minutes: - 1:06:23 hour/minutes/sec before I pressed ESC to stop.
FrameDrops: - 0

My conclusions are:
* after 66.2 minutes/sec, there were 0 (ZERO) Frames Droped!!
Again, I had to install and reinstall and re-reinstall VARIOUS capture card drivers
w/ a CLEAN system - well, mostly clean. I deleted things I didn't need. This pc
will/is only to be used for capturing and encoding, that's it. I will be burning
or ghosting this setup (if all goes well) this to a CD-R disk so I have it in cases
of emergencies, etc.
Wow! Between installing capture cards to softare and drivers, to un-installing them
all, again, and again, over, and over - wow! It's ben a long journey for me.
An embarkment that I was seemed worthy of, he, he... corney!
* I have a few more pre/post tests, but other than that, I think I have was pretty
good setup with the WTVGO card.
* Now, if I can get my PCPVR card, since it has RCA/S-Video, to work with the same
success, I would be most happy. Just to get that much more UMPH! with S-Video for
VHS tapes, it seems to make picture a little/tad bit more sharp/clear etc.
* As far as noise ie, Line Noise (see my other thread on this issue) I have
to look into this for VHS captures. I'm not totally sold on what I stated earlier
about how i noticed less noise. But, as far as other captures (non-VHS'wise) those
are of great quality.
* Also, there was NO AUDIO SYNC issue what-so-ever! In my first attempt, in TEST #2,
there was autio sync issues after 21 minutes. Now, after 50 minutes in a test
encode I just encoded and burned to CVD, No Audio or Lip Sync issue!!
* So, now in TEST #4, NO AUDIO SYNC issues!!

Other Notes:
* I have a few other nick-nacks to do, but I'm on the right track.
I'm so looking forward to starting my TGIF VHS Wind Downs. I was going to start
this this weekend, but as you can see, it didn't start just yet. I'm eagor
to start this new Friday routine as of this Friday comming.
* Also, I have other issues/things to look into such as Audio ie, AC3 etc, menus
and chapters, etc.
* If I come up w/ any other successful testins of interests, I'll post them
here.
.
.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------
If I can make these pages more meaningfull and orderly, I will, but only
time will tell, as it's not easy... I keep on comming up w/ ideas of things
to include etc. Anyways.

As to the clip I did. The quality is very good, and the sound is in sync.

jesterspet535,
That was an interesting tid-bit!

Well, that about raps it up for now, and on to some more testing.

-vhelp
PS: I reserve the right to make changes/updates/revisions in a post on this
page, and Possibly on others as well for reasons being my own.

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #5 - DC10+ via DVD as source to VHS, to DC10+ again.
--------------

Good evening all.

Ok, so here is my Fifth bout w/ Frame Drops. Only this time, I'm using my
DC10+ w/ VHS as sources. However, I am descovering that, although VHS
captures fine w/ any other card, ie ATW; WTVGO and PCPVR, these cards will
capture w/out ANY frameloss what-so-ever, but given the same setup but for
the DC10+ and I have frame drops.

Ok, I have narrowed down the problems of frame drops (via dc10) due to the
MV (yes, again, MV) on source tapes. Since all VHS tapes of movies (my
hobby of capturing and encoding) are equiped w/ MV, the SYNC/MV is causing
these frame drops w/ the dc10+ card.

EXCERCISE A:
------------------
I have an idea though. To test this theory of mine (above) I will:
* use my DVD player (Apex AD-1500 via MV'less)
* and record to my VCR on a blank tape (SP mode)
* and finally, try and capture from the NOW recorded VHS tape using my DC10+
card.

What I hope to accomplish is the thoery that MV equipt tapes are the main
source or cause of frame drops due to the MV and its properties, and which
seem to cause SYNC issies because of this.
If EXCERCISE A: captures w/ no frame drops, then my theory is correct.
If not, then there is a possibility of other issues causes frame drops.

I will try this out some time tonight and tomorrow. But, the soon, the better.

Currently, i'm capturing the DVD movie "The 5th Element" and so far, at 1:03 hours/minutes
into the movie, no frame drops! Why? Because I'm using my MV'less Apex AD-1500
DVD player. No frame issues there. Frame is stable. Where'as, on the VHS,
you can see the frame bob up and down under stress or just in some scenes.
And, NO, these VHS tapes are:
* store bought movies
* only ben played once, during testing, etc. (not played over and over a 100 times)

Well, I've got a few things to set up, so let me get cracken.
I'll report back as soon as possible. I really want you all to know what my
findings are.
.
.
-vhelp

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: VHELP's FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #6 - DC10+ from VHS
--------------

Hello again.

Ok, so here is my Sixth bout w/ Frame Drops. Still using my DC10+ w/ VHS
as sources.

Current testing enviornment specs for 2nd PC:
----------------------------------------------------
Motherboard / CPU on 2nd PC: - ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Video Card: - ATR128 (rage 128 pci)
Capture Cards for this test: - DC10+
Sound Cards: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS: - Windows 98 (not SE)
Direct-X: - 8.1
Soft Player: - PowerDVD 3.0 and WinDVD 3.0
Soft Capturing: - AVI_IO
Soft Encoder: - TMPG v2.53
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
IRQS: - YES, confilics w/ DC10 and Vortex Sound Card
VCRs: - JVC SVHS (using S-Video)
other Devices: - SIMA SED-CM
Cables: - S-Video (not gold)
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sources used: - VHS (a copy from a DVD movie w/out MV)
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are: - N / A
LAN: is turned on for both pc's (doesn't seem to hamper perf. when on/off)
know issue at this time are: - NONE

Ok, I finished TEST #6's EXCERCISE A: and it looks like my theory was
correct. In the whole 60 minutes of capturing w/ the DC10+ card, I only dropped 1
frame, and that was because I was messing w/ the sound a bit during capturing, and
quite possibly the tape had something to do with it too or something else. So, I'm
definately on to something here. The tape I used was your standard tape, not SVHS
or anything, and recorded in SP mode.
Also, noted how much clearer and sharper the video was on the recorded to, VHS
tape was. Even final encoding several scenes from the VHS capture was excellent
quality. There were no noticable noise, as in the store bought movies. It was
clear and clean.
Hmmmm. So, I wonder why all those store bought movies are put on VHS tapes in
such noisy condition?? Anybody have an answere to this?? Even when they
Digitally Record/Master these tapes, they are still someone noisy. Hmmm,
I guess noone has an answer - figured! This is not something even the gorus
know. Anyways...

VHS Sources:
So, I'd like to point out this issue when you capture from VHS tapes, at least
those for store bought movies. This tapes vary in MV styles. ie of a messy
capture was the movie I was trying to do the past two days, using my DC10+
card, Mission to MARS:
* JVC SVHS - caused picture to blanking in and out every few seconds, and frame
drops were unbeleavable.
* Sharp - movie captured better than above JVC model - no blanking in and out, but
still caused some frame drops, though not as much. The JVC must have more MV
equipt circuitry and hence, it picks out the worse in MV playback.

Note, in my past and previous VHS capture and encodings, I hadn't really noticed the
frame drops - at least not as an issue back then, ...but until now. Now they are
an issue. I don't want them!

Well, this was a good excercise, and I learned something new
.
.
-vhelp

[vhelp]

SUBJECT: FrameDrops - To Eliminate, once and for all.

TEST #7 - DC10+ from VHS, 2nd capture run framedrop test
----------------

Morning peoples.

Current testing enviornment specs for 2nd PC:
----------------------------------------------------
Motherboard / CPU on 2nd PC: - ECS K7S5A w/ XP 1800+ / PC2100 256DDR ram
Video Card: - ATR128 (rage 128 pci)
Capture Cards for this test: - DC10+
Sound Cards: - Vortex SQ1500 PCI
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OS: - Windows 98 (not SE)
Direct-X: - 8.1
Soft Player: - PowerDVD 3.0 and WinDVD 3.0
Soft Capturing: - AVI_IO
Soft Encoder: - TMPG v2.53
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
IRQS: - YES, confilics w/ DC10 and Vortex Sound Card
VCRs: - JVC SVHS (using S-Video)
other Devices: - SIMA SED-CM
Cables: - regular RCA and S-Video
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Sources used: - VHS (a copy from a DVD movie w/out MV)
Most Current Motherboard BIOS settings are: - N / A
LAN: is turned on for both pc's (doesn't seem to hamper perf. when on/off)
know issue at this time are: - NONE

I'm running a second capture test for framedrops. I wanted to see if I had the
same number of frame drops as lastnights, 1 drop. Anyways, I'm watching
the scene, when I noticed the frame drop during capturing lastnight. So, I
remember where it was when it happend. I'm going to see if it happens AGAIN in
the same spot.
Anyways, since there were only one frame drop, I want to see if it, by chance, is
the tape itself ie, too tight (i didn't ff/rw for recording or captures yet) OR
glitch in quaity of tape OR bad record in that spot OR the scene where I noticed
the frame drop at.
Now, if the frame drops at the same scene location, then, wouldn't you conclude
that MV is mostly responsible for frame drops?? I would!!
In any case, so far, TEST #6 has proven excellent vs. capturing direct from the
store bought movies. Note, not every single movie suffer from massive frame drops
ie LOTR barely had any, if at all. ...and BUGS Life had none!
...Just a few that come to mind.

I will post an update here on this same post (TEST #6) w/ my final result of 2nd
test run for - I gues you could call it part 2 of TEST #6.

Well, see you in a bit
-vhelp

[vhelp]

UPDATE... to TEST #7b

TEST #8 - from VHS, 2nd capture run frame drop test - complete

See TEST #7 for SPECS.

Ok, I finished my 2nd capturing w/ my DC10+ and as it turns out:
* Yes, it drops that 1 frame in the same scene location of the VHS recorded tape.
I had to test this out several times to be sure.
* after doing the above, I decided to let it continue on capturing the VHS
recorded tape I made of The 5th Element. I recorded 118 minutes worth to
VHS tape.
Ok, after allowing it to continue, I found something interesting out. I watched
in an instant how the capturing started to drop frames like crazy - the numbers
just kept going up. It looks like the tape went out of sync or something
sometime into the recorded movie after 105 minutes - I ran this test over several
more times to be sure again, and it droped frames like crazy. So, sometime during
my recording to VHS tape via my DVD player, the recording lost it's sync or
however you explain this issue.

So, it looks like I'm on to something, and that there are issues to recording
to tape via VCRs. Looks like, those of us who record from sources like DVD, Cable,
Satalite, etc. to tape, and then later on, capture from it, may have experienced
frame drops and couldn't figure out exactly why. The (above) seems to be one of
the reasons why, in addition to other causes, that I wont get into. I'm not sure
if this finding only pertains to the DC10+ card. I do know that the DC10 seems to
lock to the video during capturing, cause when I stop the VCR from playing while
still capturing, the video capture software locks up my pc. And, the only way
to restore it (DONT RESET, you loose your captured AVI files) is to quickly press
PLAY on the VCR again, and the lock will unfreeze. Then, press stop in software.

In any case, this issue could all boil down to a good, quality VCR purchase. But,
how does one know which is the one VCR that will NOT suffer this issue?
In any case, this is where the TBC (I'm assuming) would come into place. And, as
for the "SIMA copy master" it's not much of a master, that's for sure. As, I had
this unit connected, in hopes of a good turnout - NOT.
I still believe that MV is the cause of 90% or more of frame drops.

Now, I will test to see if any of the other capture cards: ATW; WTVGO; PCPVR
other than the DC10 stop at this frame, suffering from this same sync or video
locking issue. I'll be back w/ my results.

-vhelp