CBR or CQ or VBR to fit one hour of video on a DVD?

[midwestarts]

I am capturing a one hour show off my satellite receiver with Virtual Dub. The audio is CD quality and the video output is an avi using the Huffy codec. The end result is a 12 gig (or so) file. I want to use Tmpgenc to make the file smaller to fit it on a dvd. I only want to put 1 hour per DVD. Would it be best to use CBR at 8000 with high quality motion search or is there a way to get better quality using other settings?

[wulf109]

DVD disks use VBR encodeing,generally 6000 average and 9800 maximum. Why not use those?

[midwestarts]

Tmpgenc will only do a max of 8000. I dont think I will need to have a bitrate lower than 8000 to fit 1 hour on 1 dvd. What is the setting that will produce the best results (and how long will the encode time be?)

[crahak]

Hi, I had 2 different sattelite systems, and in both cases, the quality of both the feed, and the capture weren't high enough to justify full D1 resolution... Most of the time, CVD will be even better than the broadcasted video... SVCD would be good too, but it's not a DVD compliant resolution. And if you're lowering bitrates significantly (I know of no satellite systems worth 720x480 at 8000kbps captures) You can try a 1/2 D1 DVD once, and see if you like it... I can honestly say that my systems's broadcasted picture is even worse than CVD at times...

[midwestarts]

I want it to look as close as possible to the original. I understand that the quality will not be as good as what you see on a store bought dvd. The main thing is that I have the space so why not do it at the highest possible rate. I just need to know what is the best way to get the highest quality CBR or CQ or VBR.

[crahak]

Even on a CVD, I find that the source is more of a limitation than the actual encode I did... When I see a part I don't really like too much, I go back to the original huffyuv capture, and yes, it looks just as bad. The big limitation to CVD being the lenght of time on a CDR, which is not a problem on a DVD... At higher resolutions, it still won't give you more detail if it wasn't there to start with (wasn't broadcasted in full 720x480) There is no way it gives you 720 real useful pixels. There are FAQ's on this, at 720, it's almost like pixels in a line are spread over a longer line, without carrying more information...

[midwestarts]

What if the souce was DVD quality to begin with?

[arealgijoe]

I use a panasonic E-30 DVD recorder. it has modes of 1,2,4 & 6 hrs. It also has a variable/flex bit rate you can use to get teh best possable quality for the amount of time you wnat to record on a 4.7G disk. I have nottried this feature, yet.

I use my E-30 to create/record my original DVD video and a computer burner to clone copies as needed. No messin with the computer, hordes of software etc. to record the original video, just to make copies of what I record on my E-30.

Simple and the cost are getting more affordable now.

JD (loves his E-30 so far)

[midwestarts]

But the standalone players are to expensive and I already have a DVD burner. I want to do it with the equipment I have.

[SatStorm]

If you interest to store DVB transmissions, then better do it direct. It is possible to rip the transmission -as is- and burn it to a CD or DVD creating a xSVCD or xDVD disc.
The DVB Nexus card from Hauppauge is one good alternative for this, better search for the older one (win tv DVB/s) which can be used with the amazing windvblive! third party software (www.odsoft.de).
The best solution among all, is an old nokia digital reciever with DVB2000 firmware (more infos www.no-access.de).
That way, your dreams come true: You can store exactly what you see on you screen, the way it is transmitted. Perfect one in one copy!

About your capture: I do it when I can't rip DVB transmissions (like some encrypted bskyb channels) and I can say that encoding to everything beyond 352 X 576 with an average of 3000kb/s is an overkill!

[bugster]

In an attempt to actually answer your question rather than suggest alternative methods etc.
It seems all you want to do is fit one hor of video on a DVD-r. In that case, encoding with Tmpgenc, CBR at 8000 or VBR at AVG 8000 and MAX 8000 will be pretty much the same quality. CQ with a Max of 8000 should also be v. similiar. About the only noticeable difference between these 3 will be the encode time with CBR being the quickest. So if all you really want is 1 hour of DVD, then CBR 8000 is probably your best bet.

Having said, I do have to agree with several of the other posters in that this is a waste of resources. You could save yourself a lot of media by encoding to CVD resolution and a lower bitrate to fit two hours per DVD with no noticeable loss of quality. In this case I would use 2-pass VBR, probably at about 5000avg but you wuld need to check this value with a good bitrate calculator.

Hope this helps

[midwestarts]

Thanks for actually answering my question! I have tried putting around 2 hours of video on a DVD and have not been thrilled with the results. I may go for 1.5 hours with an average of 6000 on my next try. I don't want to lower the resolution because then when I load it into DVD complete to add chapters and menus it will want to encode the video.

Thanks

[yg1968]

I use CQ 75-85% 720x480 in TMPGEnc. and I get very good results. But I think that's also overkill. I have tried 352x480 CQ 85% but the file was almost as large. I also figured that it was better off leaving DV at 720x480 given that this is the resolution used by DV. I don't know why but I get much better results using Constant Quality than 2 pass VBR. Incidentally, although much slower TMPGEnc does a much better job of encoding than DVD complete.

[Donovan]

To add to the original question. What should I set my max bitrate to given that my audio is compressed at 384kps. I have used a bitrate calculator which gives me around 9100 - 9200. I was looking to go 4000min, 8000avg and 9000max on a 2-pass VBR.

Has anyone gone this high? Is it worth it? Or should I stick with CBR at 8000?

Thanks is advance.

[vhelp]

Morning all.

As long as we're not talking DVD. Cause, as you all know, there
are no Satalite's (that I know of) airing FULL DVD quality, even if a few
are airing 720x480 resolution.
Basically, it's all about what resolution you capture at, and then encode
it to a final format.

IMO, if you capture at 720x480, and plan on burning to a DVD disk, and
for a one hour TV show, then all you really need is 4000 (give or take)
and it could be anything like CBR or VBR or CQ or whatever works, but
being 4000 or above bitrate (can be lower too) you could fit plenty on
a DVD disk. Don't kill yourself on the quality thing with trying to
figure out just how high a bitrate you SHOULD go, unless you source is
noisy or lousy to begin with. But, even then, in any case, you would
prob. make due with 4000 at 720x480. I mean, R we talking water fals,
explosions after another, etc, etc. ?? I don't think show for a TV show.

And, given the above, of course, you could fit even more than an hours'
wroth on your DVD disks (assuming DVD writer, based on your post)
For this, I would say use CQ, especially since you'll be using 4000, and
plus the fact that the encode will go MUCH quicker. If you go with a
2 pass, you're CRAZY !! . . . for a TV show ?? You're CRAZY !!
Don't let other's here talk you into a 2 pass for TV shows - - we are
talking about Satalite, aren't we ??

Anyways, go for a CQ. If you're not fluent enough in encoding formats
CBR vs. VBR vs. CQ vs. bla, bla, bla, ...than, sorry for waisting your
time with it, and just go with what others here recommend, else spend
the rest of this LONG weekend reSearching (via our Search area) on the
topic of CBR, VBR and CQ. You'll find plenty of issues, tips, and
arguments on what's the best.

-vhelp
...some divX samples

[bugster]

One issue to consider here is that with all recordable DVD media, most if not all DVD players find the discs more 'difficult' to read than commercially pressed DVD's. By this I mean that read errors are more likley resulting in the player occasionally re-reading a section of the disc in an attempt to get the data without errors. This obviously slows down the overall read speed of the DVD player. Bearing this in mind some people reccomend reducing the max bitrate used when encoding to DVD to allow the player to overcome these problems more easily. I have seen a max of 6000kbps reccomended. I have tried this on some cheap DVD-r's I bought that were giving minor problems and things do seem to have improved with less glitches and skipping than on other encodes, but this may just be luck with the media.

Just a thought anyway

[Donovan]

bugster,

Are you saying that I may be better off doing either a CBR at 6000 or 2-pass VBR with say 3000min, 6000avg and 8000max? I have noticed that sometimes my DVD player gets 'stuck' at some point, but if I restart it, it does not stick at the same place - could be because of too high a bitrate?

My media is verbatim DVD+R - maybe that's the problem. Anyone else use verbatim's? Although, thinking about it my Sony sometimes also sticks on HP DVD+RW so who knows...

And if I lower the write speed, would that help? Soooo many questions...

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

[yg1968]

Here is a (long) related thread on this subject:

http://www.vcdhelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=111609

[SatStorm]

@ Vhelp
There are plenty DVB transmissions in Europe with full CCIR framesize and enough bitrate! For example, the two holland Canal + (Roud and blau? I don't remember, it use to call c+1 and c+2 a year ago) are the perfect DVB trasnmission! They transmitting from astra 1G with 720 X 576 framesize @ 15000 CBR bitrate!!!!!!!! Audio 224kb/s.
Also almost the most of the German channels at the same satellites are full CCIR with bitrates between 4000-6000 (fair enough and close mainstream movies on DVDs).
Other channels with excellent DVB quality I know, are those ones from chechoslovakia, transmitting from Eurobird at 28.2 east. They using 15.000 CBR as well!

[energy80s]

Also Digital Terrestrial Transmissions in the UK (Freeview) use around 5 - 7 mbps full D1. These look excellent (like a DVD) and a hell of a lot better than Sky Digital, with its VCD quality output!