Is it legal?

[greenmist06]

I am one of the newer people in this forum, and I need to ask something. Is it legal to convert your VHS tapes to VCD and DVD format if it is for the sole purpose of backup. I know that VHS tapes don't last like 1/10 of how long DVD's do. I was just wondering.

[Greg12]

If they are home made videos, it's perfectly legal


if they are commerical, well

as long as you don't sell them, no one should care.

[greenmist06]

It's actually both types. I have old videos, like I have the movie Mac & Me from 1988, and I have some music videos from early 80's that are getting old. I also have some new ones that I want to last. I would never sell them though, I might just keep them on my hard drive until I can figure out what type of disc to put them on. I've got myself all confused on whether I want to save my money or get the best quality.

Andrew

[Greg12]

did you record them off tv?


TV is legal

store bought videos, it's not really illegal, don't worry, the FBI isn't gonna come after you.


However, Marcovision signal protection may be a problem on store bought tapes.

DVD burners also burn CDs and play DVD so you are getting a 3 in 1

4x dvd-rw is coming, which will push down the price of 2x DVD-rw, which means if you don't mind the wait, you can get a good deal.

[pet_head]

Please don't attack me if I am wrong, however I believed that it was alright to make backups of personal or commercial releases if:

1. You own and possess the original
2. Make only one copy for backup reasons
3. Do not attempt to sell or rebroadcast the video without permission

I'm pretty sure that that is what the "fair use" clause allows, but please let me know if I am mistaken.

[greenmist06]

Please don't attack me if I am wrong, however I believed that it was alright to make backups of personal or commercial releases if:

1. You own and possess the original
2. Make only one copy for backup reasons
3. Do not attempt to sell or rebroadcast the video without permission

I'm pretty sure that that is what the "fair use" clause allows, but please let me know if I am mistaken.

I don't know, but--
1. I own the tape of the program.
2. I am going to make a DVD or VCD for backup.
3. I'll just be using it for private use, so I have no need to sell it or broadcast it.

[greenmist06]

The music videos I got off of the TV. But when I was talking about the Mac & Me movie, that one is a store bought tape.

Also you were talking about Macrovision signal protection. I didn't think that was possible on VHS. By the way, I don't have the utilities and stuff yet, but I guess when I get some money I'll go ahead and see what I can do with them.

Andrew

[PimpInDaHouse]

From my understanding makeing a copy of anything commerical is illegal even if it is for your own use but do we care NO. So what does it matter almost everyone does it like when we backup our music which I'm sure everyone does. Let alone that almost everyone on this board uses a P2P program and you know just about anything you get off there is illegal.

[pet_head]

This applies for US only, don't know about the rest of the world.

For things that you record off of TV, the rules change altogether. It's been a few years, since I read that actual statutes on recorded TV broadcasts but here's the gist of what I remember. It is legal to record television. However it is only for the purpose of being able to delay the watching of a program until a marginally later time. It is not legal to record a program, video, movie to use in place of a commercially available copy or to use as a permanent record.

There is actually a limit on how long you are able to retain a copy of recorded broadcast material. It is somewhere around two weeks but I forget the exact expiration. Under these kinds of laws, duplication is certainly not legal.

The main thing to remember is that while this may be the legal perspective, no one adheres to then in practice. Don't sell it and no one will ever be the wiser.

[greenmist06]

This applies for US only, don't know about the rest of the world.

For things that you record off of TV, the rules change altogether. It's been a few years, since I read that actual statutes on recorded TV broadcasts but here's the gist of what I remember. It is legal to record television. However it is only for the purpose of being able to delay the watching of a program until a marginally later time. It is not legal to record a program, video, movie to use in place of a commercially available copy or to use as a permanent record.

There is actually a limit on how long you are able to retain a copy of recorded broadcast material. It is somewhere around two weeks but I forget the exact expiration. Under these kinds of laws, duplication is certainly not legal.

The main thing to remember is that while this may be the legal perspective, no one adheres to then in practice. Don't sell it and no one will ever be the wiser.

Aw hell, I have recorded movies for the past 20 years. I counted 167 movies, on about 40 VHS tapes. I doubt I will get caught, cause im definitely not gonna sell them.

By the way, what did you mean by saying no one "adheres"?

Andrew

[vhelp]

>> By the way, I don't have the utilities and stuff yet, but I guess when I
>> get some money I'll go ahead and see what I can do with them.
Wow! then, you gotta a lot of reading to yoru left, while you wait and/or
contemplate your video endeavors, endeavors!

>> Let alone that almost everyone on this board uses a P2P program and you
>> know just about anything you get off there is illegal.
* All except me! I stopped using Morpheious and WinMX and anything else there
is to use for D/L'ng illegal movie files, ie, divX, AVI, MPG, MOV, etc.
It's just not worth it to me. I'm just never satisfied with anyone elses
encodings.
* And, also because I don't feel like contributing to D/L'ng all
these illegally stored on website/webspace/internet movies in divX/mpeg or
whatever format they have then as such.
* believe it or not, there are still people who D/L these pirate movies w/
56k modems. I gave this a shot several times, though I never did actually
D/L anythong whole or complete. Always something partial, like 10mb or less
due to network traffic or being disconnected by the other user, who can see
how fast your modem is, and actually pull the plug on you. This happend
many times w/ me, and was also a contributing factor of my bailing out of
such P2P endeavors.
* do you think its ok to go out and buy a move, ie on VHS and encode it to
whatever format, ie, divX and then, post it on the web or P2P for all to
D/L??? I don't think so!! But, people do this every day! About the most
I do, when I post any MPG clip on the web, is a small sample like 1 minute
or less or something like that, and only for test/comparison purposes for
other to see, but not whole movies as "free-for-alls"
* I'm not saying that I'm perfect or follow the legalities to the letter,
then again, I don't have fast connects like DSL or Cable, but if I did,
I'm not sure what I'd post/upload at that future date in time

>> By the way, what did you mean by saying no one "adheres"?
follows... practices... DOOO's...

vhelp-

[PimpInDaHouse]

Adhere means cling and adheres means clings. So watch out for those cling-ons near your anus.

[ZAP!!]

I live in the USA and according to DMCA 1998 it is illegal to reproduce information in any form. Whether you sell it, give it away, or keep it you are violating federal law. There is no "Fair Use" policy in this country. And if the MPAA and record companies get thier way we may have "Copyright Police" knocking on everyone's door. "Excuse me, but, do you have any illegally copied copyrighted material in your house?"

[Mirror_Image]

You dug up a thread nearly 2 weeks old to chime in?

p.s. You are incorrect - case law contradicts you.

[shoozleboy]

last time I talked to my attorney (last hockey season as I recall), he mentioned that under copyright laws, you can make a "backup copy" of your item that you purchased leagally.... but you can not distribute the back up copy...it is just that, a back up... Most people will do this and watch/listen to the back up, leaving the original in like new shape.

With the DMCA, this refers to (among some other things) making it illegal to BREAK or BYPASS any encryption device/software that is in place to access the device/service/recording that is copywritten THAT YOU DID NOT PAY FOR.

Like many laws, there are SO many loopholes in them that it is generally not financially viable for the companies to track down EVERY person that is copying tapes and to sue them so they use the DMCA to prosecute those who are obviously selling/distributing illegal copies...

Unless there has been some case in court since last winter that has drastically changed the case law, then you should be ok to make backups on VCD or DVD of your old tapes... JUST DON'T SELL THEM !

I asked this same question to my attorney when I discovered this site... as I was excited to find a way to preserve my tape and laser disc collection....

As always, it's good to consult an attorney...

[PimpInDaHouse]

But when you make these movies you are not making a backup because it is not an exact copy. You are taking a DVD and putting it on 2 or 3 CDs so I don't think that is a backup unless you are copying to DVD-R but most of use aren't. And we all know there is no such thing as a backup except if you are drinkin and you are underage and you get busted and your stuff gets taken, then you go to your shelf and pull out your backup booze. Or your gun runs out of ammo and you have to pull your backup.

[pacoreguenga]

Ok everyone!
I think many of us in the past have recorded some TV show we like just to see it later or because It can't be bought at any price, and we'd like to enjoy it again. Many of us even discuss how to improve quality on captures from many sources including DTV.
I can think of several reasons to keep these records and enjoy it again and again... at home.
Is it legal or not? Well... TV stations produce their own material or buy temporary rights to broadcast material from others. Cinemas also buy temporary rights to show audiences the latest movies. When we buy a movie for home viewing, we are buying the rights to fully enjoy it at home with our loved ones, or at any place we decide, as long as (if you read carefully the FBI warning) we don't do it for profit.
Anyway, keep it at home.
Is that clear?

[weeyoo]

all of you are retarded with your legal expertize. do you really think that anyone on this planet with all that is going on has the time, resources, or the concern to track down, sue or prosecute any of you criminal masterminds. the dr. evils of vcd. everyone run they are coming, oh no, hide in the panic room.

you are all stupid...long live p2p

[PimpInDaHouse]

weeyoo yes they will come to your house. In the past month there as been about 5 different people that have been busted for bootlegs around where I live. So if you think they won't come to your house you are wrong. And there are ways of tracking what someone is downloading and who is downloading even more with P2P programs so if they wanted to bust someone they can. And if you do get busted for making bootlegs they will take your computer and you will never be able to buy or use one again. And I'm not talking about copying TV shows.

[shoozleboy]

weeyoo - if you are distributing copies of copywritten material and profiting from it, you will make yourself a target for prosecution.. Like it was mentioned above, I too have seen a few people in my area get arrested and charged with copyright violations by distributing copies of movies and DVDs for money... and they mean ANY money... even those who think they can get away with it by advertising that they sell just the media itself that the movie/music is burned on to (and the data on the media is free) and get away with that as a 'workaround' to the copyright laws.... if you flaunt it, you most likely will get caught. There's no paranoia to it at all. Some people have homes, families, and businesses that are not worth risking for something like breaking copyright laws or the DMCA. That is why most people would just consult an attorney and cover their butts before they jump into something like this... It's worth the little bit of $$ now to be sure later..

pacoreguenga - you hit it right on the head... just keep it in your house and you will be just fine.... short, sweet, and to the point. I couldn't have said it any better...

[weeyoo]

ive never sold a single one, read the first post, he wasn't either, thats how this whole topic started, thus my comment. if you start a stand on the street corner, or a booth at the swapmeet, then no kidding, you deserve to get caught and prosecuted.

[Xesdeeni]

What's sad is that while it is your legal right in the USA to make a backup of a commercial movie that you purchased, it is now illegal (DMCA) to actually bypass the copy circumvention (macrovision for analog, CSS for digital) that makes it impossible to do so. I look forward to this being challenged in the Supreme Court, because I have to believe it won't hold up.

Xesdeeni

[weeyoo]

The law already states that it is illegal to put protection on audio material, but they are doing it anyway. By the way how many of you have ever owned a dual cassette recorder and copied tapes? is that ok.

[weeyoo]

by the way, to add to an earlier comment about tv broadcasting stations buying licenses, they do this because they will profit, whether it is advertising or a pay channel, its profiteering. it i can't share over a p2p to a friend, then is it illegal to drive to his house and loan it to him? and
oh my god, what if he loans it to someone else?

[ZAP!!]

California has already arrested people for bootlegging. It is illegal to copy copyrighted material with out permission. USA has NO fair use laws AT ALL. I think France does. It is illegal to photocopy an entire book and just give it away. It is illegal to rip/capture/copy a movie/music and just give them away. But if you make a "backup" that you keep at home explicitly for achival purposes you are violating federal law but since you are the only person who knows about it the odds of the feds finding out are slim to none. It is illegal to make a copy of the copyrighted music on you audio tape. It always has been. But it is not illegal to sell devices for that purpose. It is also illegal to record shows on TV. It always has been. But it is not illegal do sell the devices to do so. Think back several years to the advent of audio cassete players. RIAA wanted the feds to make the device illegal becuase it would mean lost revenue because every one would be able to copy them and no one would pay. A few years later the MPAA had the same argument about the VCR. But they sure changed their minds later. RIAA wants companies that produce CD players, CD-R drives and CD-ROM drives to have technology incorporated that would prevent people from making copies. The MPAA want the same thing but for DVD burners. The MPAA is VERY concerned over the loss of revenue. But they fail to mention that even though the copying and distibution of bootlegs has increased there are still movies breaking box office records. Spiderman and Episode II are prime examples. So where are these guys losing money? Answer: They aren't. The revenue lost is derived from the number of times the movie or music has been downloaded. Thats it. Not "We have made this much LESS money this year than we did last year because people have been downloading our movie/music." But just think of the revenue generated if they can force you to pay the price they want.

[thegig]

Yes, the US does have fair use

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/111.html

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/117.html

http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.html

There are actually a lot of "Fair Use" doctrine at this site.
Unfortunately, you'll have to look for the Case study elsewhere in determining "Backup" use.

There is a blurb dictating that is OK to backup or copy as long as there is not a "fair and reasonable price" available for the work in question.

Frankly, I think $20 bucks for a DVD is ridiculous, and "backing up" a VHS/DVD not only degrades the original production(As we all know), but the other option of purchasing the same production I have, but in DVD, I think does not infringe Fair Use mainly because the cost of backing up my production is cheaper than buying it AGAIN.

Now if I "fixed it up" to sell it or gave it away, that is obviously an infringement. But that is my interpretation.

The media industry has a habit of changing formats and media, forcing the consumer to buy the same item again, especially if the equipment used to play the medium is rendered unusable and cannot be purchased.

When Compact disk came out, there was talk that this medium was developed to reduce the cost of manufacturing and distribution that would be passed to the consumer. The thinking was that this would reduce piracy. They were right, but failed to follow through with the plan saying they were losing more money now then ever. Yea right. I spend more money for movies/Music now than ever before, and it costs them an exponentially less amount of money to manufacture.

Just my two cents. I'm not a lawyer - and I will not play one on TV.

[weeyoo]

one thing is true, if you trully enjoy or appreciate the artist or their work, you will buy it, at a reasonable price of course. I own about 80 dvd's i bought and share them with no one. most of the people i know that went wild d/L 'ing from napster either 1. never listened to the song they downloaded or 2. listened to it once and never listened to it again. the fact is that they would have never bought it anyway, so where is the loss?

The music and entertainment has been ripping us for years with prices which in no way reflect the costs in producing the material (CD`s DVD`s etc etc) or the money given to the artists. What goes around eventually comes around.

What do I say `fuckem all`, if you want to copy a DVD or CD for your own use ,like Nike said in the past `Just do it`. No police or FBI are going to be interested if you are copying a few CD`S & DVD`s for your own use and maybe sharing a few copies with friends. Whether legal or not.

What I(personally) dont agree with are the idiots selling pirated copies of DVD`s & CD`s etc .But until the prices are brought down to something like $3-$5 for CD`s & DVD`s pirating will just continue and get much much worse as internet connection speeds & Volumes increase.

cheers

[DigVidLab.com]

I think regardless of the format (Home-made, TV broadcast or
commercial production), as long as the backup is for personal
use only, is not distributed or sold, you are in good shape.

Ive backed up many of my old VHS tapes to VCD/SVCD in
the past with no worries. Its a lot faster to pop in the latest
Barney video for the wee one on disk, than to have to keep
rewinding the VHS tape, bag nab it!! HEHE

[ZAP!!]

The US still doesn't have "Fair Use" laws. There are only regulations on backups and retransmission.