DVD2SVCD Resolution 352x576

[mike100]

I am using DVD2SVCD for ripping and converting until I have image files (cue/bin) which I can burn with cdrdao of VCDEasy.
Has anyone a hint for me, where I can change the outcoming video resolution to 352x576 instead of 480x576. I read that this resolution has nearly no less quality and is a kind of DVD-standard (1/2 D1).

[ChevyNo1]

I have been doing the same. Under the Frameserver tab, click on 'Edit as part of Video encoding'. Just before encoding, this will bring up the avisynth file, simply change it to the resolution you want. It would be REALLY nice ( hint, hint ) if this was an option before pressing the go button. Doing it this way takes the 'one-click' approach away.

- Dug

[mike100]

Where do I have to do it? At Bicubicle Resize changing from
(480,432,0.00,0.60) to what? ?(352,576,0.00,0.60)?

I tried it with (352,432,0.00,0.60), TMPEGEnc starts but the screen is green and remains green. The status line is as follows: "DVD2SVCD (MPEG-2 352x576 25fps (for PAL) CQ...)"

Did I something wrong?

[xzarkad]

I am interested in the answer too......so I anybody could tell us....

[mike100]

Hi xzarkad,

have a look on this site:

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=bfa16af7ee7eb6db8346cb70d1c77082&threadid=26718

[xzarkad]

Thanks, I will try this.

[mike100]

The new version of DVD2SVCD now has the choice of XSVCD-Resolution 352x480/576 (and more options for the avisynth script). If you are interested have a look at doom9.org

[xzarkad]

Thanks Mike 100

I have tried creating 352x576, using the avisynth script file. It worked.
I will wait till the new version of DVd2SVCD will be released to fully use this function.

[andybno1]

so is 352 X 576 a good resolution for svcd?

I get confused with SVCD resolutions.

[adam]

If you use 352x480 or 352x576 with mpeg2 you are not making an xsvcd you are making a CVD. It is a lesser known format which is backward compatible with all svcd compatible dvd players so even though its not a svcd, it will still be guaranteed to play correctly.

Yes it is a good resolution to use with mpeg2. You achieve more bits per pixel than with 480x480 and you literally come very close to the bits per pixel ratio that dvds have. You do lose sharpness with the lower resolution but generally speaking, 352x480/576 actually achieves higher quality than standard svcd resolution does.

The mpeg consorsium (sp? the makers of mpeg standards) determined that 352x480/576 at 2mbits per sec was a sweet spot for mpeg. At this point it has the optimum balance between resolution and bits per pixel. So as a general rule, when I author my disks I only use 480x480 if I can achieve an avg bitrate of 2mbits or higher, otherwise I just create a CVD.

[andybno1]

wow you sure know your stuff.

Thanx for clearing that up for me.

[Mars-L]

So far I always used 480x576 when I can use a bitrate of 2000 and up.
Below that I choose a weird kind of XSVCD: 352x288 MPEG2.

Roughly said I might conclude this for PAL with CCE and CBR??;

Bitrate >2000 use 480x576 MPEG2
Bitrate 1800-2000 use 352x576 MPEG2
Bitrate 1600-1800 use 352x480 MPEG2
Bitrate 1200-1600 use 352x288 MPEG2

Below 1200 create a VCD 1150 MPEG1

Ofcourse above 2200 an option might be 720x576 MPEG2 ?

Am I right with this all when using CCE and CBR???

Anyone has a better thought ?
It would be handy to use (rough) such a list instead of experimenting with every movie each time.
Is it really so that if the DVD-player supports SVCD it also ALWAYS supports CVD ?

[adam]

Well 352x288 is highly non standard for mpeg2...if you like that resolution and it plays than go for it but I wouldn't recommend it as a generally "good" resolution to use.

"I might conclude this for PAL"
"Bitrate 1600-1800 use 352x480 MPEG2 "

352x480 is an ntsc resolution, it won't work for pal. Granted most pal tv's can display an ntsc signal but the difference between 352x480 and 352x576 is relatively small. If you run a pal setup its best to keep it pal.

Everyone has their personal cutoff point at which they would rather switch to (x)vcd rather than lower their svcd bitrate anymore. If you want to analyze it technically then you would have to look at bits per pixel and since you are only considering CBR encoded video, thats very easy to do.

(vcd) 352x288x25=2534400 pixels per sec
(cvd) 352x576x25=5068800 pixels per sec=twice as much

You can see that CVD resolution has twice as many pixels per sec as vcd so you need twice as much bitrate to look as good. So technically speaking, if using cbr than you should not use less than 2300kbits with either CVD or SVCD, otherwise you would actually get better quality with vcd. But with vbr encoding your bitrate is used so much more effectively that it throws all these calculations out the window and really makes it a subjective decision. Generally speaking, I would say that below 1600kbits you are better off making a (x)vcd, but your mileage may vary.

I personally don't think that 720x480 should be an option for anything other than mini-dvd or dvd. In order to get the same level of quality as a svcd you would have to use a bitrate well over 5mb's. Thats really pushing the limits of cdr reading capacity and few dvd players will be able to play them. A 720x480 svcd encoded at 2.6mbits cbr would look worse than a standard vcd.

Yes, by law any dvd player which supports svcd must also support CVD. For all intents and purposes, 352x480/576 might as well be included in the SVCD specs.

[Mars-L]

Nice food for thought, thanx.
But In My Personal Opinion 720x576 with a bitrate of 2400 looks great and 480x576 with bitrates above 2100 are great too.

Also, I know it's your opinion, even this site refers to 352x288, 480x576 and 720x576 as for XSVCD.

Question:
Assume a max. possible bitrate of 1900-2100 and a resolution of 480x576 where would you go for ? MPEG1 (XVCD) or MPEG2 (SVCD).
If a player supports SVCD it also supports XVCD when I'm right.

[adam]

Question:
Assume a max. possible bitrate of 1900-2100 and a resolution of 480x576 where would you go for ? MPEG1 (XVCD) or MPEG2 (SVCD).
If a player supports SVCD it also supports XVCD when I'm right.

Well those are kinda strange constraits to place. I personally would never use mpeg1 with any other resolution than 352x240/288. If I ever wanted a higher resolution I would make a svcd or cvd. I see no reason to ever go outside of the vcd's native resolution, that is if your player supports svcds of course.

If you had a source at 480x576 and you wanted to preserve that resolution I would stick to svcd. At 2mb's per sec it should still look pretty good. Like I said before, personally if I'm limited to 2MB's I use 352x480/576.

Xvcd is an incredibly broad term. There is no dvd player that simply "supports xvcd" because no matter how leniant a player is, you can always find a way to make your xvcd so off spec that it doesnt play. In general, if your dvd player supports svcds then your player will support xvcds encoded at similar bitrates ex: up to 2.6mbits, though this is by no means a given. Also resolution is a completely different issue. Even if your player supports svcds that doesnt mean it will properly play xvcds encoded at 480x480/576. All you can do is experiment and choose what settings work best for you. Personally, I know I will upgrade to a new dvd player in the next 5 years. Even though my current apex will play very off spec xvcds and xsvcds, I choose to only make CVD's and SVCDS since I know they will play on any svcd compliant player I buy in the future. If I ever run across a very low resolution or low quality clip that I want to encode then I just make a standard vcd.

[Mars-L]

Thanx for the info.
I also have an Apex (Hiteker BI-600E which is the same as Apex600AD). Besides I also bought a Finlux510 (Which Apex is also selling as a HE1200 here in Europe) but both play all discs I have. And I think future players will more and more support all MPEG, resolution and bitrate flavours.
Also I expect new model players to support DivX within 2 years.

Whenever there's a demand they will make it.

Up until now I always created SVCD's with 480x576 with a bitrate of 1900-2200. And they're all great. I did experiment and though that if a player supported SVCD it would support all kinds of XSVCD too.
So I'd better stuck with SVCD and not try XSVCD nor CVD.

Another side question:
When it comes to the sound, might it be possible that some players (Philips esp.) don't support 48000 Khz and only support 44100 ?

Greetz
Mars-L

[baker]

Does anybody know where i can get a copy of the dvd2svcd version with the 352x576 res built in?

baker

[adam]

Mars-L let me again asure you that CVD is a standardized format and is completely backward compatible with SVCD. I can fully understand a reluctance to use a format that may cause problems in the future but this is not the case with CVD. Also, I don't know if this even applies to you or not but its worth mentioning that 352x480/576 also complies with the dvd standard so if you ever plan on converting your old encodes over to dvd-r/w than this would probably be the best format to use.

Yes there are many players which do not support 48kHz audio in svcds or vcds since after all it is non-standard. Philips dvd players in particular are notorious for being sticklers when it comes to the svcd specs since they did pretty much invent the format. Most dvd players don't have a problem with 48kHz audio but if you want your disks to be compliant then you should always convert to 44100kHz.

Baker just go to DVD2SVCD's homepage and get the latest version. You can easily do it with any version though. Just tell it to allow you to edit the avisynth script before encoding. Then just change the resizing line by hand.

[Mars-L]

Sorry for asking over and over...but am I right in your opinion there are 3 PAL "standards";

352x288 for VCD
352x576 for CVD
480x576 for SVCD

A next question;
When should I choose for CVD and when for SVCD ? Should the bitrate be the decision ? So: <2100=CVD and >2100=SVCD ???

[adam]

Yes those are the correct pal resolutions for their respective formats.

Yes your bitrate should be the main thing you use to determine what resolution to use. Like I said everyone's mileage may vary but I do think that those numbers are pretty good. Those are basically the numbers I use. Also don't forget to take other factors into account. Low motion chick flicks really don't need as much bitrate as action movies and very dark movies (think batman) compress better than bright colorful ones. Also fullscreen movies need much more bitrate than widescreen movies. There are no rules here. Even if one combination of resolution/bitrate yields higher bits per pixel than another that doesn't necessarily mean its better. Just take all factors into account and make the most logical decision and if your not sure run some tests on some sample clips.

[energy80s]

Long Live CVD!!

It is a very versatile format ... better picture quality than VCD, more compatible than SVCD, future-proof (well, to the extent that anything is future-proof), and anything that plays DVD's and CD-R's will play it. Even the 48k sound shouldn't present a problem as all DVD players have to be able to decode 48k sound anyway.

[VILLA21]

Adam, how can we calculate the BitRate of the movie in order to choose a resolution (CVD or X-SVCD)?
E.g we have a 120min movie and want to make 2 CDs 80min each one...
Thanks in advance...

[adam]

Villa21 just use a bitrate calculator. You can use the simple java one in the tools section or you can get a very accurate one like FitCD. You put in the total playtime of your movie and how many cds you want to use and it tells you what avg bitrate to use.

[dvd2svcd]

Does anybody know where i can get a copy of the dvd2svcd version with the 352x576 res built in?

baker

http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26981

[baker]

thnx dvd2svcd but doom9's fouroum dosn't work on my machine but I got is somewhere else anyhow.

@energy80s,
Ever try a cvd in a ps2?

@VILLA21,
use dvd2svcd as its sound quailty is the BOMB!

Baker

[energy80s]

No, I don't own a PS2.

[adam]

Since the PS2 doesnt play svcds it will not play CVD's either, at least not without some form of modification but that has not been developed yet.

[andybno1]

is there a way to get a ps2 to read a cd-r or cd-rw for vcd's

[adam]

The ps2 does not support vcds or svcds. There is currently no way to get either of these to play.