bitrate blues

[The Cold War Kid]

Hey pplz

Currently, a 55 min video renders to an 11 GB MP4 file. Using a target bitrate of 32 and a max of 40 MB/second with keyframes set at 25.

I don't know how long it would take to upload an 11 GB file... But mortality, becomes an issue

This video is 16x9, 1080p @ 60 fps. It contains some scenes of road travel, cam mounted on the roof. 16x9 means lots of jerky stuff on the edges of the screen and things going blurry, just as you pass them. But people seldom concentrate on the edges of the screen...

I've seen lots of great action videos - up to two hours long - on a standard DVD, which holds 4 GB...

Obviously, I'm doing something wrong?

[Hoser Rob]

Hey pplz

Currently, a 55 min video renders to an 11 GB MP4 file. Using a target bitrate of 32 and a max of 40 MB/second with keyframes set at 25....

Didn't do the math (bitrate X running time = size) bit a video bit rate of 32-40Mb/sec resulting in 11 Gb doesn't sound too out of the ordinary.

[Alwyn]

From experience, I reckon ~4gb would be more than enough for 55min. Try it and check the quality. You are right about DVDs but remember, they are only standard definition and probably done with a far better encoder than you're using.

[Cornucopia]

Apples and oranges.

55min = 3300 sec.
11GB = 90112 mb

bitrate = mbps (mb/sec) = 90112/3300 = 27.31 mbps

You don't say what codec is used, but mention MP4, so one might assume h264 or h265.
For bluray, bitrates using h264 are often 20-40mbps, so that would be in the ball park, although bluray doesn't natively support 1080p60.
For DVD, which is SD, bitrates using mpeg2 are often 3.5-9mbps, but to compare with that you would need to use an mpeg2 encoder and resize down to SD (and make it interlaced if you still wanted smooth motion, since DVD doesn't support 60p). 55min @9mbps would be ~3.6GB or just shy of filling a single layer DVD.

If you are uploading to a streaming service, YES, it would take a while (up or down) at that size. Of course, you could always make a reduced-bitrate copy, but if it contains a LOT of motion and contrast, higher bitrates are usually necessary to maintain the quality (because the complexity of the scene puts more burden on the codec, which looks for similarities).

Scott

[4kblurayguru]

I don't know how long it would take to upload an 11 GB file... But mortality, becomes an issue

there's calculators online, input your speed and the size of the file and it'll give an estimation on how long to upload.
what upload protocol? http or ftp?

I've seen lots of great action videos - up to two hours long - on a standard DVD, which holds 4 GB...

so you want to make a DVD?

Obviously, I'm doing something wrong?

there's no wrong or right, what is the method of delivery for your video? what is the target device? who are you targeting?

Currently, a 55 min video renders to an 11 GB MP4 file. Using a target bitrate of 32 and a max of 40 MB/second with keyframes set at 25.

what video codec? 1pass or 2 pass encoding? what is specs for source? what encoder are you using?

Currently, a 55 min video renders to an 11 GB MP4 file. Using a target bitrate of 32 and a max of 40 MB/second with keyframes set at 25.

here's my suggestion

for online delivery
-edit it down to 5minutes maximum
-use HEVC encoder cfr 20 or 2000 kbps
-resolution 720p
-framerate 30fps
-audio AAC 128kbps

for DVD
-use mpeg2 encoder
-3500 mbps
-audio ac3 225 kbps
-resolution 576i
-framerate 25

[The Cold War Kid]

Hello Nice to "meet" you,

I'm using the Adobe encoder (Premiere 5.5). It's not clear how I would proceed, using another encoder, as Premiere compresses the video during render.......?

These videos will be sourced, online - no DVDs.

The most interesting thing you said was INTERLACED. I thought interlaced was on ancient analog TVs, where every other scan line was updated, during each scan cycle? I have no idea how that relates to digital recording/playback, but I WOULD LOVE TO LEARN, as it seems this might chase those jerky moments (when the detail overwhelms the codec) away, once, and for all!

Pretty sure the adobe encoder dies not have a menu option for interlaced...

I learned to operate an NLE rig when I shot weddings, and that's been years ago. I know little about this. I should have messed around with long enough to be able to understand most of the things necessary, to learn it.

If you're game (?) lets begin by asking how I can get Premiere to render a video, without compressing it, so I can then use another program to compress it?

[Cornucopia]

If you're not doing DVD, you don't need to interlace.

To encoder separately, later: Render it with an uncompressed codec & container (often called "None"), for example "AVI Uncompressed" or Quicktime with codec "Animation" (compressed losslessly) or "None/Uncompressed" or "ProRes" (if a little compression loss doesn't bother you). Perhaps try the DNxHD/HR in MXF option, but that would probably be harder to re-encode as not many tools are MXF savvy.

Because you are using the h264 preset in PPro/AdobeMediaEncoder, it is currently set to h264 compression in an MP4 container. So you need to try a different preset, or roll your own/Custom.

If you are using v5.5, that is WAAAYYYY old and so it may or may not have feature options you are needing, and will make it hard for others to suggest possibilities. I'm using the current version (23.3.0), and that's a big difference.

Scott

[Bwaak]

Currently, a 55 min video renders to an 11 GB MP4 file. Using a target bitrate of 32 and a max of 40 MB/second with keyframes set at 25.

With the target bitrate of 32 MB/s the data rate would be 32 * 60 * 55 / 1024 = 103 GB/s.
It is more likely your target bitrate is set to 32 Mb/s: 32 / 8 * 60 * 55 / 1024 = 12.9 GB/s.

I am not sure why did you you mention DVD, as DVD-Video is a standard definition format that uses MPEG-2/H.262.
Also not sure why keyframes are at 25 considering your video is 60p.

For Blu-ray, average data rate of 20-25 Mb/s is the norm. For online, it can be easily reduced to one third of that or even smaller. Also, AVC/H.264 is considered twice more efficient than MPEG-2/H.262. HEVC/H.265 is considered about four times more efficient than MPEG-2/H.262.

Your video is 1080p60, and you are not making a DVD-video, so you should not care about interlacing.

I've seen lots of great action videos - up to two hours long - on a standard DVD, which holds 4 GB...

Professional movies take extra care to ensure smooth stutter-less motion, in particular by blurring the background, which also helps reduce the needed data rate. Your HD video was likely shot on a bright day, so you will have lots of details and everything in focus, so you need all the data rate you can afford.

Try encoding into H.264 or H.265 using CRF parameter instead of specifying data rate. Standard CRF value is between 18 and 22. If the file turns out too large, increase the CRF number.

At the end of the day, just upload whatever you have, it will get there. If you are not producing these videos daily, do you care if it uploads a day later? Just keep the computer running.

[The Cold War Kid]

Also not sure why keyframes are at 25 considering your video is 60p.

For Blu-ray, average data rate of 20-25 Mb/s is the norm. For online, it can be easily reduced to one third of that or even smaller. Also, AVC/H.264 is considered twice more efficient than MPEG-2/H.262. HEVC/H.265 is considered about four times more efficient than MPEG-2/H.262.

================

Keyframes are the product of experimentation, and recommendation. What should they be - some even divisor of 60? It's really 59.94... the standard, I think?

Someone advised me against h.265, saying it causes trouble, later on? Will just selecting it shrink the files?

[jagabo]

h.265... Will just selecting it shrink the files?

Not if you use bitrate based encoding. Since size = bitrate * running time no matter what codec you use you should get the same size if you specify the same bitrate.

[The Cold War Kid]

Not if you use bitrate based encoding. Since size = bitrate * running time no matter what codec you use you should get the same size if you specify the same bitrate.

============

ok, well, guess I missed the meaning of 'efficient.' In what way, then? In how long the compression takes? I'm guessing, here..

[jagabo]

h.265 will deliver better quality than h.264 at the same bitrate. Of course, this all depends on which encoder and what settings you use.

[The Cold War Kid]

h.265 will deliver better quality than h.264 at the same bitrate. Of course, this all depends on which encoder and what settings you use.

======================

so do you use 265, even though there are consumers whose equipment may not support it?

[jagabo]

Use whatever suits you and your audience.

[poisondeathray]

How is it being viewed /delivered ?

Is it a re-encoding site such as youtube, vimeo ? Are you using your own host ? Is a download then viewed locally on whatever device /hw /sw ?

[The Cold War Kid]

I will use a video paywall. I don't know which one. Any suggestions - FOR A POOR BOY?

[Bwaak]

I will use a video paywall. I don't know which one. Any suggestions - FOR A POOR BOY?

You want other people to pay for a 55-min video with "some scenes of road travel, cam mounted on the roof" with "lots of jerky stuff on the edges of the screen and things going blurry"? Do you already have a portfolio so people can judge your style and quality before opening their wallets? Then again, I suppose you'll be making a trailer.

Vimeo has been a pay-to-watch platform for quite a while, but I am sure there are other options. YouTube also allows to charge for your videos, but you need to be a YouTube Partner.

If you are going to use an online platform, you should not care about end-user device compatibility, you just should make sure that the platform accepts and decodes your video. It will re-encode into its own presentation format anyway (some platforms allow viewers to download, but I am not sure whether it would be the original file, or the one recompressed by the platform).

[The Cold War Kid]

You want other people to pay for a 55-min video with "some scenes of road travel, cam mounted on the roof" with "lots of jerky stuff on the edges of the screen and things going blurry"? Do you already have a portfolio so people can judge your style and quality before opening their wallets? Then again, I suppose you'll be making a trailer.

======================

Business 101: FACILITY, is the root of value.

Facility, in this case, means filling the wants (or needs) of the customer.

What I want makes no difference, whatsoever. The CUSTOMER will pay a whole dollar to see WHAT HE/SHE WANTS TO SEE.

Yes, I've nit-picked my own stuff, complaining about things your average consumer will not even notice... that I, as a casual viewer, would not notice. Yes, the fact that a million dollars was not spent on the kit to make this shows. Again, I seriously doubt a single customer will see that. Because that, is not what they are looking for.

I thank you for your help. Now, I return it. Making a successful video, or anything else, has little to do with the technical tricks and everything to do with PROVIDING FACILITY TO THE CUSTOMER. Read that last sentence again. It just might save you cubic dollars, someday, on the production of a technical masterpiece that flopped, financially, because nobody was interested in it.

Quite simply, the customer will pay to view the content because of his/her interest, in that content.

Doky?

I tried using 20 as a baseline bitrate, leaving the max at 40. Files are a lot smaller. Thanks for the tips .)

[The Cold War Kid]

With the new prog I was able to reset the sequence parameters 'on the fly.'

Now, FINALLY, I see 60 fps video!

It deleteS all the video preview files when you change the settings! OH, HAPPY DAY!