Ulead versus TmpGenC

[raceman3]

I recently upgraded to Ulead Video Studio version 6 and it appears as though it does a better job creating a video CD then TmpGenC in terms of compression. In the past I saved my video CD as an AVI file with Video Studio and then used TmpGenc to convert it to mpeg. Has anybody else had similiar results. At this point the only reason I can see to continue using TmpGenc is if I want to change the bit rates (non standard VCD's)

[Spicuzza]

raceman3,

I can't comment on TmpGenc as I have never used it. I have used VideoStudio since version 4.0 and I'm currently using version 6.0.

What I know by reading these posts is that the same problems come up with the same software over and over and over again.

Also, I don't understand why people use one program to capture, another program to edit, another program encode, another program to burn, the list goes on and on and then they wonder WHY they have dropped frames, audio sync problems, video with no sound or sound but no video and so on and so forth.

I've often recommended to folks to just spend the $100 bucks for VideoStudio and then you will have REAL video editing software.

Enough rambling, the main reason I responded to your post was to let you know that in VideoStudio 6.0 you can crank up the bit rate as high as you'd like...... till your machine chokes of course.

For me, perhaps my eyes are going bad at 45, but I can't tell the difference from an XVCD at 2300 kbps or 4000 kbps. There is definitely a point of absolute diminishing returns whereby increasing the bit rate is only producing a much larger file size without any real enhancement of the visual quality.

Much like scanning a photo at 150 dpi vs 300 dpi, there's not much visual difference between the two vs the file size for most projects.

Just my opinion.

Gary Spicuzza
cic7@juno.com

[raceman3]

I've used Video Studion since 4.0 as well, and the reason I used TmpGenc in conjunction with it was mainly due to recommendations from the folks on this forum. I believe it provided better compression and quality with the previous version of Video Studio but that doesn't seem to be the case with version 6. I'm assuming you up the bit rate when you ready to save it with version 6. I usually keep the NTSC defaults except for the bit rate which I increase to 2000

[Spicuzza]

raceman3,

Didn't really intend to ramble with previous post. The point I was trying to make is that in earlier versions of VideoStudio, like you say, you couldn't increase the bit rate past 2000 kbps for MPEG, they have changed that now and you can crank it up to I believe around 15,000 kbps!

What's interesting is I almost downloaded TmpGenc because like you say seemingly everybody recommends that software on this site, but as I kept reading the posts it was quite clear that most everybody that has it has problems with it.

I wasn't having any of the problems people were asking for help with using VideoStudio so I figured if it's not broke don't fix it and never bothered with this obviously problematic software.

Anyway your subject was Ulead versus TmpGenC. My vote goes for Ulead without admittedly ever using TmpGenC. Glad I don't, this stuff is complicated enough with a kick butt machine and stable software.

Gary Spicuzza
cic7@juno.com

[WebMonkey+RW]

the ulead products are great editors.

tmpgenc is probably the best encoder.
it's not meant to do you editing and transistions and overlays.
it's meant to encode whatever you have into mpg1/2
there are many many filters and options within tmpgenc.
from bitrates to audio and video filters.

if you want to turn out a compliant VCD/SVCD each and everytime
get to know tmpgenc =]

i use ulead MEDIA studio pro 6.5 [up from 6.0] for ALL my editing
but a DV format avi is what i output. then i feed that to tmpgenc
using a template i have worked on and trial and errored.

it's another step, granted, but yeilds the finest results imho

i started with ulead VIDEO studio 3se that came with my voodoo card.
i really got busy when i stepped up to the MEDIA studio line.

remember, tmpgenc is just an encoder with more filters/quality options
than any other and produces top notch mpegs. it is not an editor so you can't really compare 'ulead' with it. now the ligos mpeg codec that comes with ulead, well that's another story. i've given my opinion on it, see what others on the web think of. almost all pick tmpgenc even over cce and hardware solutions.

DVD+RW rules =]

[ratt794]

Well I hate to dissapoint all of you but the new Ulead MPEG Codec in Video Studio 6 has some major problems.

I have been using it since the first week of February. At first I liked it but the more I used it the more problems I found. It does not help either that I have a 51" HDTV that shows EVERYTHING!

First of all is it does not handle high motion or complex video scenes well.
It gets very blocky or has jerky motion or both. Even software rendering DV-AVI has these problems at high bitrates (Higher bitrates do not help this codec much as they do with others).

When capturing you need a really fast CPU to do SVCD or full resolution otherwise performance is not very good. A setting of "15" is needed for performance to get decent results and my Athalon 1100 can only go up to a 12 at SVCD resolution and 8 at 720 x 480 resolution. Going from a Duron 750 to the Athalon 1100 only got me from an 8 to a 12 for SVCD and it is still quite poor during high motion or complex scenes.

As for Variable bitrate mode - it has a serious bug of pulsing artifacts and is totally un-useable for me.

My ATI AIW 128 Pro capture thru the Analog S-Video and MMC 7.1 does a better job at MPEG creation than if I go DV-AVI digital 1394 and then render using Video Studio's codec!

Also the smart rendering feature generates invalid MPEG files that cant be used for SVCD, XSVCD creation. The only template that works is the SVCD one. MPEG-2 and DVD have problems. Since the video bitrate in SVCD is limited by the program to 2375 the quality is not very good.
SVCD really needs about 3000K bitrate to yeild good quality or at minimum 2550K to fit within the standard.

Ulead needs to fix these problems and I have made them aware of it.
Right now the Ligos codec is superior in all aspects - speed and quality.

Regards,

Rob

[kwag]

Well, this is what I have to say.

The LSX ( Ligos ) encoder is far far from the quality of TMPGEnc 2.5+.

Ulead's VideoStudio uses the Ligos plugin.

Now you know the results.

kwag

[FlîrtîngWîthDî§a§ter]

Does anyone have a guide for encoding with UleadVideo studio.?

[ratt794]

Ulead Video Studio version's 4 and 5 use Ligos.

Video Studio 6 uses ULead's own MPEG.now which is a modified Main Concepts codec. I can't comment about TMPEG as I have never had good luck with it (Tried it twice and it is too slow and the output was not worth the wait).

I am just saying that the Video Studio 5 and MSP codec (Ligos) is better than the new MPEG.now used in the new version of Video Studio.

Ulead is going in the wrong direction here.

As for the ligos Codec - It can produce high quality MPEG at normal Broadcast bitrates (2500+ for SVCD, and 4000+ for full D1 resolution)
The lower bitrates I suppose TMPEG is better.

Regards,

Rob

[Spicuzza]

FlîrtîngWîthDî§a§ter,

You really won't need a guide with Ulead VideoStudio 6.0.

They have done a great job with this version of the software and I would highly recommend it to anyone.

For $100.00, in my opinion, it is the best Video Editing software on the market for us amature Videographer/Moviemakers.

Gary Spicuzza
cic7@juno.com

[FlîrtîngWîthDî§a§ter]

Spicuzza thanks been fooling with it, i like it
Thanks

[Stelios]

I have been using VideoStudio 6.0 and I find it excellent for guys who want to edit and burn video work with one program. It is so easy to use and has everything I need to show off my video work to my friends and get praise for it. Tmpgenc is also a nice program to have for those "special" jobs you might want to do, but I rarely use.

[SatStorm]

@Stelios: Kalosorises filara sto forum! (that is welcome in greek)

About Unlead/TMPGenc: Unlead present very good software products. Ver 6 is better than ever. For someone who follows the standards, Unlead is a very good and easy to use solution.
The main reason someone mess tmpgenc/CCE/virtualdub/etc, is because you can go -X- with those programs. How - X - is a personal choice.

Personally, I don't want full compatibility for my media. I create very good xSVCD, for myself and some of my friends.
XSVCD keeps my creations to a Hobby level for all of them...

[raceman3]

Thanks for all the input. Last night i created to NTSC standard VCD's using both Ulead and TmpGenc to generate the mpeg file. I watched both of them on my Sony XBR 32" HDTV and I really didn't notice any difference in quality. I did notice that the mpeg generated by TmpGenc was almost 200MB larger then the one created by Ulead. I guess what I'm getting at is for standard complient VCD's is there really any difference other then fewer steps between the output to TmpGenc and Ulead. In a few months I'll be upgrading to a dvd writer and maybe that will really show the differences

[kwag]

Thanks for all the input. Last night i created to NTSC standard VCD's using both Ulead and TmpGenc to generate the mpeg file. I watched both of them on my Sony XBR 32" HDTV and I really didn't notice any difference in quality. I did notice that the mpeg generated by TmpGenc was almost 200MB larger then the one created by Ulead. I guess what I'm getting at is for standard complient VCD's is there really any difference other then fewer steps between the output to TmpGenc and Ulead. In a few months I'll be upgrading to a dvd writer and maybe that will really show the differences

raceman3:

Could you check again the settings that you used, when you created the "Standard VCD" using Ulead.

If it was really a standard VCD, there would be no difference between Ulead or TMPEG, because a standard VCD is a constant bit rate and there would be no file size difference between either encoder.
What I suspect is that Ulead is producing some kind of VBR, and that is why the file size was smaller that TMPEG.

kwag

[raceman3]

I'll check tonight, but i believe i just selected NTSC VCD

[mrdigital]

For me, ULEAD wins every time. I have tried all TMPGENc versions over the last 6 months, but have had to remove from my system each time due to problems. Although the latest version of TMPGENc gave the same visual look as Ulead (Ligos) svcd, TMPGENc had bad sound problems. For the record, I produced two Identical clips, using the ligos encoder and the latest version of TMPGENc, and burnt an svcd and compared side by side on my 8 foot wide projection screen ( sony vpl 400 qm projector) . The Ulead mpeg file was also smaller.

Regards Ray.

[ratt794]

For the record I do not usually use MPEG-1 or do VCD resolution movies.
I suppose for that Video Studio is fine. For what I do it does not do the best job. I use MPEG-2 because it can do Field Based encoding for smoother motion from Video sources like my Digital Camcorder.

I just shot 3 minutes of footage on Saturday 3-30-02 and then converted it digitally using Video Studio 6 to an MPEG file 720 x 480 at 4000K bitrate.
I used CBR because VBR has many problems and pulsing artifacts in Video Studio 6. For the record this is NOT a Ligos codec but a new one from Ulead and Main Concepts.

The quality was just ok - it had a lot of blockiness especially during motion but even some still areas did not look good.

Since then I have been playing with TMPEG 2.53 and although it is slow the Quality is incredible at maximum setting. At the same bitrate (4000K) and Maximum Quality motion search the result MPEG was Flawless on my 51" HDTV through Component Video connections to my DVD player. It looked like my camera was connected directly to the TV. Audio was fine too - no problems as in previous versions of TMPEG.

Even at faster settings TMPEG is still better- AND I fed it a DV-Type 1 file which it is not supposed to support but it DID TAKE it and encode to MPEG-2. I am planning on purchasing the $48 commercial version as this is what I was looking for. I will just have to render when I go to bed and let the PC run through the night as it can take over 10:1 time at highest quality. A 6 minute movie would take about an hour on my Athalon 1100 system at max quality CBR full D1 resolution.

Regards,

Rob

[homerpez]

I know I've said it before, and veterans to this forum will be sick of me saying it again, but i feel as though I must...

CINEMACRAFT ENCODER BEATS THEM ALL!!!!!!

Anyway, my take on Ulead...

I found it (Moviefactory? version 6) to be good for editing, and downhill from there.

It's slow to encode (comparable in speed to TMPGEnc, or slower), the results are flaky (great quality to horrible quality in a short span), and playback problems abound (motion search problems in the encoder). NOt to mention how flaky its menu creation is, and cross your fingers about your movie playing in a standalone.

It can be good, but there is a reason people use CCE/TMPGEnc --> VCDImager --> Burn... IT WORKS.

[Rich927]

Ulead Videostudio 6 is a good program but ulead has the worse tech support I have ever seen. if you have a problem, you are stuck.

[ratt794]

CinemaCraft Encoder may be fast (It is the Fastest) but the quality is NOT as good as TMEG. See the below test.

http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm

Also The lite version is $250 and the full version is $1995 !!!!

TMPEG is $48.

My take is to convert from AVI to MPEG while I sleep so rendering time is not an issue.

[homerpez]

Um... did you read that test?

For Cinemacraft Encoder SP (and I quote):

"Very sharp and almost perfect picture. Still is the best encoder. Too expensive. But for pro user this is the "final solution". It is our dream. Btw. in one pass VBR encoding the time taken was around 0:30, but we found that the three pass encoding results in better quality"

Hmm...

[mrtristan]

Being a quality freak, I prefer to use Tmpgenc. If you aren't as picky, than just about any encoder will do a decent job.

The only aspect about Tmpgenc that I don't like, is it's speed.

I own VideoStudio 4.0. Overall, it's a good program. I bought MGI's Videowave, but that's total crap. I couldn't use all of the features, even after doing a clean install of windows 2000.

Anyway, I use VideoStudio for some odd jobs, like subtitles and creating banner screens. Although it's built as an all in one editing solution, I prefer to use Tmpgenc, VirtualDub, and VideoStudio in conjunction with each other.

[raceman3]

Change of Heart. I originally felt that Ulead could do it all with the same quality as TmpGenc and it did with standard VCD settings. However I did some testing over the last two days and found that if I bumped up the bit rate to 2000, Ulead became very blocky. TmpGenc on the other hand just created a higher quality VCD. I was hoping Ulead would do the job so I could do everything with one software package but it appears I'll stick with the old way of doing things. One last comment, I keep seeing messages out here stating that it's not the size of the mpeg but the number of minutes to consider when burning. I have found that I can't burn anything over 700MB to a 80 minute CD with Nero. With my bit rate set to 2000, that gives me around 40 minutes of video. What's the deal ?

[maximalred]

One thing that I know is that Ulead mpeg 2 format take a long time to convert in TmpGEnc Plus

and it is hard to know which format to capture in and convert too SVCD format, I have try to convert videos from avi files to SVCD and convert mpeg files into SVCD but they both take many hours of my time too do.

if I could I would like to capture from SVCD format instead of having to convert other files into it but my default my capture card does not support the res of 480x480 format but I have used ulead to capture mpeg 2 format but I can not get it too capture the SVCD format and it does not really support the format fully because its not even a format in the capture mpeg menu for the capture software.

[MarkLV]

Also the smart rendering feature generates invalid MPEG files that cant be used for SVCD, XSVCD creation. The only template that works is the SVCD one. MPEG-2 and DVD have problems. Since the video bitrate in SVCD is limited by the program to 2375 the quality is not very good.
SVCD really needs about 3000K bitrate to yeild good quality or at minimum 2550K to fit within the standard.

If you are talking about wrong timing of "smartly" rendered MPEGs,
this problem may be fixed by TMPGENC without recompression :
1) De-multipex invalid MPEG.
2) Multiplex video and audio once again. I used "MPEG-2 Program (VBR)"
type for DVD like MPEGs, may be for SVCD, XSVCD you should use
"MPEG-2 Super VideoCD (VBR)", but, be honest, I have no idea about
what type option stays for .