Why image looks so different between MPC-HC/potplayer and MPV?

[Robert Paulson]

Proof [MPV always on the right]attached

Hello, hope this is the right section.

So the output image on screen of mpc-hc or even potplayer (between those two there's no differences) is really different on color and brightness between the on from MPV.

I installed LAV megafilters and using high end GPU settings for UHD displays, settings in MPV are the following:

priority = high
keep-open = yes
autofit-larger = 50%x50%
scale = ewa_lanczossharp
hwdec = auto-copy
gpu-api = d3d11
gpu-context = d3d11
profile = gpu-hq
video-sync = display-resample
alang = eng,en,enUS,en-US,English,it,ita,Italian
cache = 8388604
cscale = ewa_lanczossharp
dscale = ewa_lanczossharp

So why are they so different? What is supposed to be the correct one?

Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?

[amaipaipai]

What is supposed to be the correct one?

Hard to say, to measure that you have to create a control like colorbars and measure yourself, you know how the control look like so it should be easy to tell the diferences between the two apps.

[jagabo]

Video is stored as YUV. It has to be converted to RGB to be displayed. There are several different algorithms for doing so. The two main ones are called rec.601 and rec.709. They results in slightly different colors. In general, rec.601 is used for SD, rec.709 for HD. Some players always use one, some always use the other. Some will switch depending on whether the video is SD or HD. It's possible to flag which matrix to use withing the video. Some players will follow the flag, some won't.

There are also two brightness/contrast conversion methods: limited range and full range. Almost all professional video sources (DVD, Blu-ray, Youtube, etc.) use limited range. If you use a full range matrix you will get the wrong brightness -- darks will be too light, brights won't be bright enough.

The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.

Beyond those there are several different output devices available to the player. They may use different matrices for the YUV to RGB conversion. They may have different proc amp settings. Players may have their own proc amp settings -- so even if everything else is the same they may deliver different colors.

As amaipaipai said, you should get a calibration video and determine how to get the correct colors and levels from each of your players.

[aedipuss]

filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.

[Robert Paulson]

What is supposed to be the correct one?

Hard to say, to measure that you have to create a control like colorbars and measure yourself, you know how the control look like so it should be easy to tell the diferences between the two apps.

Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?

The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.

Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?

filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.

So what's the best/fastest way to reproduce a video with best quality on screen?

[Robert Paulson]

filter/codec megapacks are never a good thing.

So what's the best/fastest way to reproduce a video with best quality on screen?

[JVRaines]

Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?

The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.

[jagabo]

The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.

Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?

I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error, and/or a limited range vs. full range error. So you have to look at other possible problems too -- as noted later in the post.

For example, MPCHC has its own proc amp controls:

[Attachment 49007 - Click to enlarge]

Every graphics card driver has proc amp and other "enhancement" controls:

[Attachment 49008 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 49009 - Click to enlarge]

Players may use their own proc amp or the system proc amp.

[sneaker]

I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error

Is the video HDR? Players may use vastly different tonemapping algorithms. If it's not HDR it could be some GPU driver setting ("image enhancements").

[sneaker]

Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?

If the player/display doesn't do tonemapping (for example if it doesn't detect the source content is HDR) then colors will look washed out.

[usually_quiet]

Also i have another question, what happens when i play HDR content on a non-HDR display?

If the player/display doesn't do tonemapping (for example if it doesn't detect the source content is HDR) then colors will look washed out.

Yes. I have seen this. Based on my own experiences playing 2160p BT 2020 HDR10 video with Pot Player and VLC, PotPlayer does not do tone mapping on its own when used with an 8-bit display which does not support HDR or BT2020, although supposedly madvr can address that problem. However, I have not bothered to set up madvr. I have found that VLC does tone mapping for this kind of video when used with an 8-bit display which does not support HDR or BT2020.

[Robert Paulson]

The differences in color in your screen shots is more than a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error or full range vs. limited range error.

Sorry I don't get it, what do you mean by this?

I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error, and/or a limited range vs. full range error. So you have to look at other possible problems too -- as noted later in the post.

For example, MPCHC has its own proc amp controls:

[Attachment 49007 - Click to enlarge]

Every graphics card driver has proc amp and other "enhancement" controls:

[Attachment 49008 - Click to enlarge]

[Attachment 49009 - Click to enlarge]

Players may use their own proc amp or the system proc amp.

Sorry i don't know how to multiquote...

Everything is disabled, both in MPC-HC and radeon settings, the only thing i can find which might be related is "compromise on tone & gamut mapping accuracy" but disabling it doesn't make a difference

[Robert Paulson]

Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?

The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.

I'll attach the results, as before MPV is on the right, i don't reallt know which is better...

[Robert Paulson]

I mean the differences between your screen shots is too large to be explained simply as a rec.601 vs. rec.709 error

Is the video HDR? Players may use vastly different tonemapping algorithms. If it's not HDR it could be some GPU driver setting ("image enhancements").

There are no image enhancements ON as far as i can tell. The first 2 images are from "life untouched 4k demo", which it shouldn't be HDR, the last one is from "samsung travel with my pet hdr 4k demo" which is HDR, but image looks different even on 1080 sdr videos

[sneaker]

The first 2 images are from "life untouched 4k demo", which it shouldn't be HDR

I downloaded it from here (md5: f2db8f6647f4f2a0b2417aed296fee73). It's HDR. Don't know about your version.

General
Complete name                            : Life Untouched 4K Demo.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : Base Media
Codec ID                                 : isom (isom/iso2/mp41)
File size                                : 450 MiB
Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 19.1 Mb/s
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
Writing application                      : Lavf57.72.101

Video
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : HEVC
Format/Info                              : High Efficiency Video Coding
Format profile                           : Main 10@L5.1@Main
Codec ID                                 : hev1
Codec ID/Info                            : High Efficiency Video Coding
Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
Bit rate                                 : 18.9 Mb/s
Width                                    : 3 840 pixels
Height                                   : 2 160 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 16:9
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 59.940 (60000/1001) FPS
Minimum frame rate                       : 59.920 FPS
Maximum frame rate                       : 59.960 FPS
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 10 bits
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.038
Stream size                              : 446 MiB (99%)
Writing library                          : ATEME Titan File 3.7.2 (4.7.2.1001)
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
Color range                              : Limited
Color primaries                          : BT.2020
Transfer characteristics                 : PQ
Matrix coefficients                      : BT.2020 non-constant
Codec configuration box                  : hvcC

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC LC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec Low Complexity
Codec ID                                 : mp4a-40-2
Duration                                 : 3 min 17 s
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 127 kb/s
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel layout                           : L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 kHz
Frame rate                               : 46.875 FPS (1024 SPF)
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 2.96 MiB (1%)
Default                                  : Yes
Alternate group                          : 1
Encoded date                             : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25
Tagged date                              : UTC 2017-06-05 00:13:25

[jagabo]

Thanks for the reply, so I'm on mobile right now,I'll download that program and make a video, than I have to open the video with both apps and is there a indication that the color reproduction is correct?

The best way is to use a vectorscope, but you can do it by eye. The yellow bar should be pure yellow and not the slightest bit orange. The cyan bar should not be bluish or greenish but exactly halfway between. Likewise, the magenta bar should not be bluish or reddish but exactly between the two. The white square in the bottom should be as bright as the display goes (at its current setting) and there should be exactly one narrow barely-visible gray bar in the midst of the black area to the right.

I'll attach the results, as before MPV is on the right, i don't reallt know which is better...

Those are essentially the same. Both with the correct color matrix and levels. It looks like your issue is HDR.

[_Al_]

yes , plenty of errors , but shooting around correct values up to +-2 in 8bit RGB,

so it is about that particular video and player dealing with that particular format

[Robert Paulson]

Thanks to everyone for the replies, so i have a BenQ EW3270U which, from my understanding, has a "fake" HDR in fact i'm using it with a custom profile, and should be 10bit, even if radeon settings only let me choose 8bit, if i select 10 bit the screen goes blank for a second then back to 8it, but this is another issue i guess.

So which settings is the best to set in Madvr? Is ok like this?

Thanks again