Avi to MKV/MP4 No Go

[Sumsaris]

A rare problem has cropped up for me. I took upon myself to edit together two separate previously encoded MKV/h264 files with Pinnacle Studio v15. With its usual quirks PS accepted the files but burped several times in the process forcing numerous restarts. I managed to encode out to an AVI file under x264 vfw with PCM audio. Subsequently, wanted to repack the video into another envelope, but neither MKVtooknix nor MP4Box will accept the file, with audio or without.

The AVI plays fine in MPlayer HC on the computer, but when launched via a media box with the TV the video stutters and jerks much like those old xvid packedbitstream files. I've converted other avis (not necessarily h264) without any hitches. I include the following mediainfo log (note the 25/23.976). Original files were 23.976. I'm not clear what Studio did here. Thanks for your ideas.

Video
ID : 0
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : High@L3.1
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Codec ID : H264
Duration : 1h 37mn
Bit rate : 2 149 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 688 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 1.85:1
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Original frame rate : 25.000 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.102
Stream size : 1.47 GiB (90%)
Writing library : x264 core 142 r2453bm ea0ca51
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=5 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=umh / subme=8 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.15 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 / fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-3 / threads=6 / lookahead_threads=1 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 / decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / bluray_compat=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 / b_adapt=2 / b_bias=0 / direct=3 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=50 / rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=23.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 / ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00

[poisondeathray]

Possibly the frame rate is the problem. If it introduced a duplicate frame every second that would cause a slight jerk every second. You can verify this by opening the AVI in vdub and check frame by frame

Check your pinnacle project settings to see if they were set properly. If it was set to 25, there will be physical duplicates. I would re-export with the proper settings

If you had it set to 23.976 - it might not be communicating with x264vfw correctly, you can try to force the framerate with --fps 24000/1001 --force-cfr in the extra commandline box

[Sumsaris]

Thanks, poisondeathray, for the quick reply. I did a quick check and PS being what it is, doesn't accept 23.976 at 720p. It most certainly did decode then to 25p. I'm not sure about the command line instruction. With PS you basically just choose from their standard plate of options (i.e no avisynth script). If I chose to re-encode over my present file with an avs in virtualdub (and suffer the slight quality hit) would that eliminate the problem? Any special script instruction? Thanks.

[poisondeathray]

I don't use Pinnacle, but I find it very difficult to believe that it won't allow you to set a custom project/timeline setting. I would try to fix the underlying problem first

If you've verified that is the problem (you can just navigate frame by frame in the pinnacle timeline, and in a scene with motion if you see a duplicate frame every second , you have your answer) . There are ways to decimate that through avisynth afterwards (e.g. TDecimate(cycleR=1, cycle=25) ), but it's much better to address the underlying problem

[Sumsaris]

Thanks for the reminder regarding tdecimate, pdr. I'll give it a whirl tomorrow am. I've already dumped the project files (it was a only an experiment). I neglected to mention that neither of the two source MKVs (encoded on separate computers, two years apart) would initially load in Pinnacle until I transcoded both to AVIs ?! Moreover, I couldn't even get the very AVI that I'd just encoded to load on the timeline either tonight! Something else is going on here methinks. Perhaps a Studio 15/h264 compatibility or corruption issue. Peat moss in the header? It should load MKVs though. Anyway, for now my parallel question remains without an answer: would an extra frame prevent mkvtoolnix (or mp4box) from loading this AVI? I thought anything plugged into the bunkus machine?

[Sumsaris]

On a hunch, I snipped off the first couple of seconds of my encode (the initial GOP and/or some small change) and lo and behold mkvtoolnix took the bait. Perhaps it was the reindeer fodder after all. Also on a virtualdub timeline the video appears to cycle through most everywhere at 24fps without the extra frame. I appear then to at least have worked out part of my problem. So unless you hear from me tomorrow consider the problem solved. Thanks and keep up the good work. Y'all are still one of the best out there...sumsaris

[Sumsaris]

I'd like to check back in and report that my hunch of last night worked at first, but then didn't and in the end by cutting a few corners ultimately solved itself. So I'm simply here to ask for a bit of pedagogy. I've listed the few steps I took. I'd like to ask what in the nature of a header operation can possibly explain any or all of the process below. To simplify matters I'll say that my edit consisted in inserting the first hour of video A on the timeline followed by a pasting of video B to make the final output C. A+B=C. Ok? The only other two relevant bits of info I can add is that in the editing process I was constantly confronted with a 2.5 second video delay after re-encoding which had to be corrected before viewing. Within the editor everything always lined up. Also Pinnacle Studio has one major bug that has consistently followed me in the half dozen versions I've used: the inability to cut exactly on a given frame. You never see it on the timeline, but once rendered the glitch of an 'extra' frame pops up. The charm of this anomaly is that you never know when and where it will hit you, except that in a one hour film you'll have anywhere from one to a half dozen cases of it.

1 - Took my finalized AVI and cut the first GOP (2.5 sec it turns out) >> managed to convert to MKV.
2 - Playback of MKV on MPC-HC was perfect until the 1 hour mark >> the last 2.5 sec of video A had disappeared >> 2.5 sec A/V shift in video B
3 - Split video into A and B >> 2.5 sec of A reinserts itself + first 2.5 sec of audio B + 1 final frame from video A that should have been cut out 276 edits ago !?! B is Ok.
4 - Went back to original AVI >> split into A & B with Virtualdub and removed last two frames from A. B untouched.
5 - Converted to separate A.mkv and B.mkv and appended >> MKVtoolnix warning: "The track number 0 from the file 'D:/ B.mkv' can probably not be appended correctly to the track number 0 from the file 'D:/A.mkv. The codec's private data does not match (lengths: 43 and 43)."
6 - MKV and AVI alike now play fine on computer. No more judder on TV playback.

Voila. Am I wrong in thinking the television sputter was only due to some inherent incompatibility between AVI and h264? But then what happened in step 2? It resembles something out of an X-Files telekinesis episode. Thanks.