deinterlacing 50i project for Internet

[baross]

Hello there ,I have been stuck in this for over a day and read many things across the net and still haven't reached a satisfying solution. I am editing 50i video shot with an old Sony hdr-sr11 with vegas pro 12.
I use the "set project settings from media" button.
I render with main concept Internet 1080p
When I first saw the jerky results of deinterlacing via either blend or interpolate I thought I had done something wrong.
Looks almost fine when the camera doesn't move but the moment it does it looks bad. nothing like the original footage.
What do most people do with interlaced footage for YouTube . How do they get smoother motion ?
This must be a common issue even for people shooting in 60p because they too need to convert down to youtubes 30fps limit and lose half of the frames. Yet I can't find any satisfactory information.

My is not comping or interlacing artifacts. my problem is motion fluidity.

here is an example
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPw4unrONtE
the motion was butter smooth. now to me it looks like its lost allot of fluidity.




and here is an example of a smooth youtube vid:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3wbvpOIIBQA


thanks

[poisondeathray]

Your video is handheld, not stabilized, so you have jerky , jittery motions

You need to use better shooting technique & stabilization gear (tripods, sliders, steadicam etc... ie. stabilization rigs)

You can improve it somewhat using a software stabilizer e.g. deshaker, prodad mercalli , etc... but it's always better to shoot it stabilized in the first place (otherwise you lose effective resolution - you end up with black borders that you usually have to zoom in to remove)

[smrpix]

The GoPro footage also uses a very wide angle lens which minimizes the effect of shake. Zooming in, as in your car footage, literally magnifies any shakiness.

[jagabo]

And those GoPro ads use professional cameramen with tripods, steadicams etc.

[jagabo]

it's always better to shoot it stabilized in the first place (otherwise you lose effective resolution - you end up with black borders that you usually have to zoom in to remove)

Not to mention that the post stabilized video will have frames with motion blur and jello effect for no apparent reason.

Also keep in mind that 25p is never glassy smooth. It will appear to flicker or strobe with high motion and sharp, high contrast material.

None of the deinterlacing filters in Vegas are any good. If you want really good deinterlacing you need to use AviSynth's Yadif() or QTGMC().

And lastly, a lot of people have trouble with jerky playback from some videos at youtube -- even if the video itself isn't jerky.

[jagabo]

Oh, and manufacturers often take great liberties with the truth in ads:
http://www.theverge.com/2012/9/5/3294545/nokias-pureview-ads-are-fraudulent

[budwzr]

In regards to your video, there's 2/3 pulldown applied. That's causing a cadence issue. What you see as a hesitation. Not a problem if you leave it interlaced. Upload it as 50i instead, and see what happens.

If not caused by YT, there must be a snafu in your workflow, or camera codec. Maybe use IVTC before conversion to progressive.

Or did you convert to 24p at some point? That could be the issue too. What's the Brit film rate?

NOTE: Yeah, it's handheld herky jerky too, but that just adds to the problem.

[budwzr]

And those GoPro ads use professional cameramen with tripods, steadicams etc.

But that's just to polish it. The camera itself does perform well, per specs. Much better than any cellphone cam.

[manono]

In regards to your video, there's 2/3 pulldown applied.

Are we seeing the same video - the cars on the road? It's 25fps. No pulldown applied, no IVTC needed.

[budwzr]

Oh, really? I looked at it frame by frame and it was jumping in a 2/3 pattern. There IS some kind of judder in there, every few frames.

Let me look at that again. Oh, forgot to set the project to the file so Vegas was resampling to 30p. Oops, my bad.

You got me Manono. Hey, lets keep this quiet, shshhhhh.

[manono]

Mum's the word.

[jagabo]

I recommend the OP upload a short sample of the interlaced source.

[baross]

Hi all and thanks for your time! much appreciated .

I have attached the interlaced clip. Playing this in WMP(or VLC with bob deinterlace) you will see the smoothness.

I have also uploaded this exact interlaced clip to youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ktcw1NhpG4Q
I cant see any difference with this and the de-interlaced

and here is the link again for the original de-interlaced clip for comparison:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HPw4unrONtE

This car clip might not be the best example....
Thanks again

[jagabo]

Is the attached video smoother than what you see on Youtube? What about the video I uploaded in post #5?

[baross]

jagabo,
I can notice the video in post 5 has less camera shake. it looks much nicer.
but ignoring the camera shake is that the smoothest the motion of the actual cars can get ?
did you notice the big difference of motion I'm talking about when you played the interlaced mp4 I posted in post #13 ?
I'm getting the feeling at this stage that the motion fluidity in the youtube video in my original post is normal ?
and I cant see much or any difference in the attachment on post #14 did you deinterlace with avisynth ?

[budwzr]

Whew, that DeShake.mp4 looks great.

[jagabo]

I cant see much or any difference in the attachment on post #14 did you deinterlace with avisynth ?

No. I just downloaded that video from youtube. I wanted to be sure the problem you were seeing wasn't a youtube playback issue.

I can notice the video in post 5 has less camera shake. it looks much nicer.
but ignoring the camera shake is that the smoothest the motion of the actual cars can get ?

Yes. That's the nature of 25 fps video. Better deinterlacing might make the video look a little better but the motion will still be jerky.

I'm getting the feeling at this stage that the motion fluidity in the youtube video in my original post is normal ?

Yes, the reduction of 50 fields per second to 25 frames per second reduces the fluidity. A conversion of your original interlaced video deinterlaced to 720p50 with QTGMC in AviSynth attached.

[baross]

Ok thanks Jagabo.
you have put my mind at peace. muchas gracias !
Ive also learnt that the lower frame-rate makes camera shake even less tolerable so removing that is even more necessary on youtube.
what did you do to the clip in post #5 ?

The 50fps clip is nice and smooth yep. I uploaded it to youtube just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyL8lwDReDA
and as expected no difference right ?

[jagabo]

Ive also learnt that the lower frame-rate makes camera shake even less tolerable so removing that is even more necessary on youtube.

Yes.

what did you do to the clip in post #5 ?

I started with the 720p25 video downloaded from youtube and used Gunnar Thalin's Deshake filter in VirtualDub.

The 50fps clip is nice and smooth yep. I uploaded it to youtube just for fun.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yyL8lwDReDA
and as expected no difference right ?

Yes, youtube decimated it to 25 fps so it has the same flicker/jerkiness.

[Skiller]

YouTube simply still doesn't support 50 fps. Their limit is at 30 fps. Any frame rate higher than that will be decimated in some way. Upload 50p and you get 25p.

That being said, it might be a good idea to upload 50p anyway. I'm quite certain the day will come when YouTube videos can be 50 fps (and they most likely will re-encode videos, at least they did this in the past too when new standards were introduced).

And if there's one thing I learned in my ~7 years of YouTube experience I'd say it's always a good idea to upload videos in their best definition you can offer – do not settle for YouTube's current standards/limitations. Whenever I watch my old videos uploaded in 2008 I wish I had uploaded them in better quality, but I did not because at the time this quality was sort of state of the art for YouTube, so I didn't bother back then.