2.5 hour edited video onto a *single layer* DVD

[Slickrobie]

Hi

I recorded (and do record on regular basis) some stuff which i need to edit and then distribute on a *single layer* single DVD.


The edited stuff (using Pinnacle 14) is about 2.5 hours. It usually ends at about this time. I find that any encoding settings I use, the quality of the output is almost rubbish. I can't do it on a dual-layer dvd or even several 4.7gb DVDs.

So, what are my options to get the best quality output?

1. I have the original DVi output from my camcorder, so I can do the editing again if necessary. Large files.
2. What software (if not Pinnacle) could I use to allow me save 'good quality' output on a DVD. Is PowerDirector any better?
3. OR even what separate pieces of software to use to create a 'good quality' DVD.
4. What encoding settings or tricks are there for me to achieve this?

Thanks.

I suppose the simple question would have been: How do I squeeze 2.5 hour edited movie with the best quality onto a single 4.7gb DVD?
Robie

[hech54]

I'd just output to D/L DVD(creating the DVD folder(s) on your hard drive and keep that for yourself....then run that through something like DVDShrink and let it transcode down to a single layer DVD to send to others.
Simple and free.

[jagabo]

Try using half D1. The tradoff is half the horizontal resolution in exchange for less blocky artifacts.

[Brainiac]

Just curious, why can't you do it on a dual-layer dvd?

Brainiac

[jagabo]

And don't expect your noisy, shaky, interlaced, handheld camcorder video to compress as well as Hollywood film.

[dannyboy48888]

HCEnc 2 pass should give good results wit var-AQ turned on. Same with TMpegenc with all the settings on. This is assuming progressive encoded video, interlaced it going to shoot the needed bitrate thorugh the roof. If you don't want to use these programs then I would take jagabo's advice and do 1/2 D-1 as not many encoders come close to the mentioned quality in the MPEG-2 world

[Slickrobie]

Try using half D1. The tradoff is half the horizontal resolution in exchange for less blocky artifacts.

Sorry, but what is a 'D1' never mind 'half D1"?

[Slickrobie]

Just curious, why can't you do it on a dual-layer dvd?

Brainiac

Unfortunately, some of my 'clients' (I don't get paid) still use a DVD player from the 20th century, i.e. no support for D/L DVD.

[Slickrobie]

HCEnc 2 pass should give good results wit var-AQ turned on. Same with TMpegenc with all the settings on. This is assuming progressive encoded video, interlaced it going to shoot the needed bitrate thorugh the roof. If you don't want to use these programs then I would take jagabo's advice and do 1/2 D-1 as not many encoders come close to the mentioned quality in the MPEG-2 world

Thanks.
On what output should I run HCEnc or other encoders?

[Slickrobie]

BTW: Thanks for the responses so far.

[jagabo]

Sorry, but what is a 'D1' never mind 'half D1"?

D1 = 720x576 PAL, 720x480 NTSC
half D1 = 352x576 PAL, 352x480 NTSC

[sanlyn]

Just curious, why can't you do it on a dual-layer dvd?

Brainiac

Unfortunately, some of my 'clients' (I don't get paid) still use a DVD player from the 20th century, i.e. no support for D/L DVD.

Then they must have paid $500 or more for their players if they're pre-2001. It's a shame as well that your customers can't play commercial DVD disks on their players, either -- most retail DVD's are dual-layer, and have been DL for a long time.

[Slickrobie]

Sorry, but what is a 'D1' never mind 'half D1"?

D1 = 720x576 PAL, 720x480 NTSC
half D1 = 352x576 PAL, 352x480 NTSC

Thanks.

[hech54]

You mean to tell me there are no output presets in Pinnacle?

[Cornucopia]

Well, there's a good possibility of GIGO going on here, but 2.5 hours (aka 150minutes, or 9000seconds) on SL DVD should be a no brainer.

4.37GB=4474.88MB=35,799.04Mbits. 35799.04 / 9000 = 3.977671111 Mbps. So giving a bit of cushion, 3.8Mbps AVG bitrate, with 9Mbps peak, and 2pass VBR encoding with HCEnc should easily do the trick.

Stop using fudgeware like Pinnacle to do your encoding and you'll get an immediate boost.

Scott

[sanlyn]

3.8 VBR should be about right for 2.5 hours (keep the max under 6500, though) -- with a good encoder like HCenc. I don't know of any NLE that could do it well (it will be garbage with Pinnacle). If there's lots of source noise, motion, camera shake, etc., forget it. But 3.8 would be a close call, in any event.

[Cornucopia]

I disagree about the peak. The whole point of VBR is to allow the "peaks to carry the dips". IOW, more room to adjust the bitrate allocation means the bits get assigned more efficiently.

I am guessing that you are thinking "avoid pushing the bitrate too high or certain, low-quality machines will have stuttering problems due to bad buffers". But that means catering to the worst players in the bunch. According to the spec, 9.8Mbps is the max and a player that received a CBR 9.8Mbps signal should STILL have no trouble buffering, decoding & playing back smoothly.

If you wanted to err on the side of caution, you could knock that down a bit, but a player that couldn't do, say, 8Mbps consistently is NOT a player you would want to be using anyway - Chinese knockoff no-name stuff.

Scott

[manono]

If you wanted to err on the side of caution, you could knock that down a bit...

Heck, I put plenty of 2.5 hour movies on DVD with a 9500 max bitrate. But movies are way different from interlaced home video, so I doubt his output quality will be the same. One tip that will make it more compressible is to use a lower quality quantisation matrix, maybe the AVAMAT7 available in HCEnc. Or use Half D1 as jagabo suggested earlier. Or both.
.

[Cornucopia]

Yeah, that's why I said GIGO...

Still, I've done lots of HomeVid xfers to DVD, and 2.5 - ~4 hours is often still doable, more if you go DL. Denoising, Custom Quant Matrix & Lower Rez are all good tricks to facilitate this. There are other tricks, too.
But seriously, I wouldn't cater to encoding for the WORST machines, just the MOST. And my experience has told me to use (nearly) the full bitrate range to maximize the encode quality/efficiency.

Scott

[Slickrobie]

Well, there's a good possibility of GIGO going on here, but 2.5 hours (aka 150minutes, or 9000seconds) on SL DVD should be a no brainer.

4.37GB=4474.88MB=35,799.04Mbits. 35799.04 / 9000 = 3.977671111 Mbps. So giving a bit of cushion, 3.8Mbps AVG bitrate, with 9Mbps peak, and 2pass VBR encoding with HCEnc should easily do the trick.

Stop using fudgeware like Pinnacle to do your encoding and you'll get an immediate boost.

Scott

Hi Scott


No GIGO. My DVI output is as clean as it can get, i.e. 100% when transferred from my camcorder to my PC. I can vouch for that. Perhaps, Pinnacle is not doing the right job. I have always used something like Pinnacle to do my editing and creating a DVD but it seems I need to it separately now. Therefore the question.

[solarfox]

Generally, when I need to cram that much onto a single-layer DVD-R (and don't let certain posters above tell you any differently, there are a lot of post-2001 DVD players that can't cope with dual-layer recordable media, and not all of them are cheap Chinese knockoffs), I use TMPGEnc with the following settings:

Frame Size: 352x480 (half-D1) when converting VHS or NTSC camcorder footage; you can't really tell the difference since those sources rarely have 720 pixels worth of horizontal resolution anyway.
Rate Control Mode: 2-pass VBR
Average Bit Rate: 4000kbits/sec
Maximum Bit Rate: 8000kbits/sec
DC component precision: 10 bits
Motion search precision: Highest

Audio: AC3, 160kbit/sec (again, higher than this will really do you little good on anything from a VHS or camcorder source. If you've got very clean hi-fi audio, maybe go to 192kbit). Note that you may need to download the "TMPGEnc Plus" or "TMPGEnc Video Mastering Works" versions to get AC3, rather than just the plain freeware TMPGenc version (I forget when AC3 was added).

[Cornucopia]

@SolarFox, I never said ANYTHING about Dual-Layer (except in passing regarding adding MORE minutes). What the OP asked for, and what I answered about, regarded SL discs. And I stand by what I said. If a player can't correctly play fairly high bitrate (~8-9Mbps) DVD-Video on high quality burned media (also without scratches, etc), IT IS THE FAULT OF THE PLAYER. I'm guessing your experience may have more to do with how players react to bad quality media, as it becomes very clear that a player which isn't smartly designed has to do a LOT of rebuffering to complete its error-correction when encountering either low quality media, or scratches & wear, or both.
Otherwise, I quite agree with your choice of encoder & settings, etc.

@Slickrobie, when I mentioned GIGO, I wasn't JUST referring to the transfer. DVI? Glad your display looks clean, but we still don't know if what you really mean is DV or not (DV stands for "Digital Video" a consumer, digital standard def video recording & playback format, DVI stands for "Digital Visual Interface" one of the common digital display output cabling systems from PC to display, like HDMI). I'm guessing you actually meant DV.
Which means that, IF CORRECTLY DONE, the transfer should be lossless, but things could already not be optimal in the camera.What was your choice of capture codec (both in-cam and on-computer)? I assume DV in both, but with lots of newbies on this forum, it's best to not presume. Did you use a tripod? Did you have sufficient & balanced lighting? Reasonable contrast? Was there any other camera movement going on? Was there excessive subject or background movement going on? Was there any high-noise activity in the background (lots of fluttering leaves, waterfall/fountains). Did you shoot interlaced, or progressive? All these factors are involved in whether your stuff is highly-compressible-with-high-quality or not.

Scott

[solarfox]

And I wasn't replying directly to you and only you with that comment, Cornucopia. Read further up the thread. Someone else mentioned DL discs.

[Nelson37]

1. Describe, in general, the type of content you are recording.

2. If you don't have a tripod, GET ONE.

3. If you still have the Pinnacle install disks, set them carefully on your coffee table and then put a coffee cup or a beer on them and never, ever use them again. Uninstall the software from the PC, and get a different encoder. You are using what is quite possibly the worst MPG encoder ever produced. It is an abomination.

There's a lot more but the OP is not ready for that yet and these will most likely get him over the hump.

Virtualdub, HCenc, GuiforDVDAuthor, ImgBurn, Quality disks. And a Tripod.