Rotating video throws audio/video out of sync. Any Suggestions?

[dano2]

The newest of noobs here. I've tried in Adobe Premier Pro, Windows Movie Maker and IMovie. They all give the same result. I've also tried saving just the audio and just the video, then laying the audio on top the video in movie maker, but it won't stay in sync. Audio/Video is in sync before rotating. Original vid is in mp4 format. I had to convert to DV for IMovie.

Any suggestions?

[aedipuss]

post the text mode output using mediainfo of the source here.

[dano2]

post the text mode output using mediainfo of the source here.

Source duration                          : 13h 20mn
Bit rate                                 : 19.4 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Rotation                                 : 90°
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 0.191 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 0.000 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 46.705 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.330
Stream size                              : 109 MiB (94%)
Source stream size                       : 111 MiB (96%)
Title                                    : VideoHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-06 17:59:05
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-10-06 17:59:05
mdhd_Duration                            : 304758

Audio
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 5mn 5s
Bit rate mode                            : Constant
Bit rate                                 : 126 Kbps
Nominal bit rate                         : 96.0 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 2 channels
Channel positions                        : Front: L R
Sampling rate                            : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 4.58 MiB (4%)
Title                                    : SoundHandle
Language                                 : English
Encoded date                             : UTC 2012-10-06 17:59:05
Tagged date                              : UTC 2012-10-06 17:59:05 

[poisondeathray]

Variable frame rate means it will be almost impossible to edit and keep in sync. You would have to try to convert to CFR before editing, perhaps with avisynth

If you just want to rotate it, but not edit it, you need to mux in timecodes to keep the variable frame rate and everything in sync

Frame rate mode : Variable
Frame rate : 0.191 fps
Minimum frame rate : 0.000 fps
Maximum frame rate : 46.705 fps

[poisondeathray]

I forgot you mentioned you were "new"

There is no "easy" way to do this - It will probably be easier for you just to rotate the video with playback software (during playback)

If you're just rotating it without other edits , you need to extract timecodes, rotate the video (this requires re-encoding , you can even take the out of sync video you exported from an editor if you made no edits besides rotating) , then mux back in timecodes. When you mux back in the timecodes, it will become VFR and magically back in sync. The timecodes tell the player where to slow down or speed up in sections as the FPS varies down and up over sections

You can use mp4fpsmod to extract and mux back in timecodes , but it's all commandline (There is no GUI) . The instructions and sample command lines are on the webpage

https://github.com/nu774/mp4fpsmod

If you were attempting other types of edits , you would try to convert to constant frame rate CFR first. You could do this with avisynth, DirectShowSource with convertfps=true. This will insert duplicate frames in sections where the fps slow down, so the average FPS will become CFR to the value you set. In some places it might go slightly in and out of sync, but overall it should be close . Once it's CFR you can edit it in "regular" editors

[dano2]

Yes I am only trying to rotate it. no other edits. I've learned you can rotate during playback in VLC. So I'm thinking maybe that, plus some desktop a/v recorder, might do the trick. But I'm not sure of what software can record the audio and video very well. I'm now looking into recordmydesktop for Ubuntu. I have access to mac and windows as well, if you know of a good one. If that doesn't work, I'll look into mp4fpsmod. Thanks.

[budwzr]

Can't you just use AviDemux?

[poisondeathray]

Can't you just use AviDemux?

To rotate it, yes you can.

Older ones for sure didn't preserve the timecode, so you will still get the sync problems if you don't mux them back in later . I don't know about the recent builds

[budwzr]

I was thinking to:

Save the audio to PCM.
Save the video to Xvid cbr.
Mux the PCM in with the Xvid.

Or something along those lines. Like that "hot potato" game we played as kids. Nobody wanted to hold the hot potato very long. Do they have games like that in The Great White North?

Ya don't say!

[poisondeathray]

I was thinking to:

Save the audio to PCM.
Save the video to Xvid cbr.
Mux the PCM in with the Xvid.

Won't work without timecodes. (and you mean CFR, not CBR)

The audio isn't the issue. You can stream copy that . The audio is the same between VFR or CFR. It's the video that is different - the video slows down, speeds up in sections according to the timecodes

[budwzr]

Hmmm....I guess I forgot all that stuff since switching to modern NLE's. I remember the heady days, when the devil was in the details.

Now its all grist for the mill.

[poisondeathray]

Hmmm....I guess I forgot all that stuff since switching to modern NLE's. I remember the heady days, when the devil was in the details.

Now its all grist for the mill.

Professional NLE's are designed for professional acqusition formats. Things like portable devices, phones usually don't fall into that category.

Just rotating it and muxing timecodes isn't that bad or difficult.... but it becomes a nightmare if you try to edit it while still VFR

[poisondeathray]

maybe budwzr saves the day ?

I just tried avidemux 2.6 (the newest version) and it looks like it preserves VFR with the rotate filter

Give it a test dano2


video=>mpeg4AVC (x264) , choose your encoding settings
video=>filter =>transform=>rotate (select angle)

audio=>copy
format=>mp4

Ctrl+s to save enter extension e.g. "myfile.mp4"

[budwzr]

Hope it works

I see what you mean, about the VBR video. Lucky guess about AviDemux.

[dano2]

Thanks, budwzr/poisondeathray. I was able to rotate and keep the audio in sync using Avidemux2.6. As I mentioned, I don't need to edit THAT video anymore, but I thought I'd still be able to at least merge it with others in an editor (e.g. Movie Maker) and save it. But when I do, it just goes out of sync again. Pretty much, just as you said it would. Tried converting to various other formats using "4free Video Converter." But same result.

I'm guessing syncing will be an issue when trying to burn this to a dvd too.

Now I'm worried I'm going to have the same problem with every video I've taken for the last year with my Android (Galaxy S2). Just transferring to my PC now, and they're all like this

Weird thing is though, I'm having to rotate some other videos (like below), and they don't fall out of sync. Is there anything you can see in the details that would explain that? Note the Frame Rate Mode is still Variable.

General
Complete name                            : C:\Users\ASUS\Desktop\ud_stuff\vids\20110922_005641.mp4
Format                                   : MPEG-4
Format profile                           : 3GPP Media Release 4
Codec ID                                 : 3gp4
File size                                : 11.6 MiB
Duration                                 : 37s 732ms
Overall bit rate mode                    : Variable
Overall bit rate                         : 2 575 Kbps

Video
ID                                       : 2
Format                                   : AVC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile                           : Baseline@L3.0
Format settings, CABAC                   : No
Format settings, ReFrames                : 1 frame
Format settings, GOP                     : M=1, N=30
Muxing mode                              : Container profile=Unknown@12.3
Codec ID                                 : avc1
Codec ID/Info                            : Advanced Video Coding
Duration                                 : 37s 707ms
Source duration                          : 37s 747ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 2 510 Kbps
Width                                    : 640 pixels
Height                                   : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio                     : 4:3
Rotation                                 : 270°
Frame rate mode                          : Variable
Frame rate                               : 24.982 fps
Minimum frame rate                       : 21.277 fps
Maximum frame rate                       : 30.303 fps
Color space                              : YUV
Chroma subsampling                       : 4:2:0
Bit depth                                : 8 bits
Scan type                                : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame)                       : 0.327
Stream size                              : 11.3 MiB (97%)
Source stream size                       : 11.3 MiB (97%)
Language                                 : English
mdhd_Duration                            : 37707

Audio
ID                                       : 1
Format                                   : AAC
Format/Info                              : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile                           : LC
Codec ID                                 : 40
Duration                                 : 37s 732ms
Source duration                          : 37s 743ms
Bit rate mode                            : Variable
Bit rate                                 : 61.4 Kbps
Maximum bit rate                         : 65.5 Kbps
Channel(s)                               : 1 channel
Channel positions                        : Front: C
Sampling rate                            : 44.1 KHz
Compression mode                         : Lossy
Stream size                              : 277 KiB (2%)
Source stream size                       : 277 KiB (2%)
Language                                 : English
mdhd_Duration                            : 37732 

[poisondeathray]

but I thought I'd still be able to at least merge it with others in an editor (e.g. Movie Maker) and save it. But when I do, it just goes out of sync again. Pretty much, just as you said it would. Tried converting to various other formats using "4free Video Converter." But same result.

Not possible, because movie maker, NLE's they all use a CFR timeline

As soon as you append segments or make cuts, the timecodes no longer reference the correct sections (and those programs don't work with these types of timecodes anyways)

I'm guessing syncing will be an issue when trying to burn this to a dvd too.

Yes , because DVD doesn't support VFR. You would have to convert to CFR

Weird thing is though, I'm having to rotate some other videos (like below), and they don't fall out of sync. Is there anything you can see in the details that would explain that? Note the Frame Rate Mode is still Variable.

Because it probably is slightly in and out of sync, you just don't notice it when you convert it (with other programs that don't preserve timecode). When you have a video that is minimally variable, you probably can't perceive the difference

Only when the variations (magnitude) of the frame rate changes are large, will you notice it. Look at your first video, it drops down to fractional FPS in sections (it says minimum frame rate is zero) . It will likely be one that has lots of dead space or little to no movement

This latest one is probably minimally variable, look at the minimum, average and maximum FPS . In contrast, this one will likely be one that has constant movement

[dano2]

Late update here. I finally stumbled upon a solution for this issue by doing the following.

1) ffmpeg -i myOriginal.mp4 myOriginal.mp3

[This step may not be relevant, but I did then open that mp3 up and did some trivial editing (e.g. amplified etc) Then exported the mp3 under the same name]

2) In Windows Live Movie Maker, add myOriginal.mp4 and rotate to your liking. Mute the video's audio.

3) Then add myOriginal.mp3 as "music" over the top of the video. Preview it.

4) My movie was perfectly in sync at this point. So then, just "Save Movie" -> "For Computer". All should be well.

Thanks everyone for the help.