Black bars on sides of dvd recordings

[PeterDuggan]

I've searched this and other forums for a solution to this problem but (although there are many discussions along similar lines) I can't find an answer. Any help would be really appreciated. I'm a newbie so please excuse my lack of technical expertise.

I'm trying to archive recordings from a upc cable recorder. I've connected a dvd recorder by scart and this records from the upc box and plays back the programmes on my widescreen tv no problem.

The problem happens when I take the recorded dvd from the dvd recorder and try to rip it (using Imgburn) and/or compress it (using Handbrake) on a pc. The resultant (whether compressed or uncompressed) files all have black bars to the left and right of the picture. Even if I play the dvd directly on the pc I get the side bars.

I've spend weeks Googling this and also tried altering every setting I can see on the upc box both to no avail. If anyone can point me in the right direction I'd be very grateful! Thanks.

[hech54]

Can your DVD recorder record widescreen content?

[jagabo]

That's normal. TVs overscan the picture so you never see the outer edge of the frame (typically 2 to 5 percent at each edge). Capture devices capture a frame that's slightly wider than the active picture region in case the picture is slightly off center. So you typically get small black borders (sometimes other noise) at the left and right edges of the frame. They capture a 720x576 frame with an active picture area of 702x576.

If you're making a video only for display on a computer you can crop those away if you want.

[PeterDuggan]

Thankyou for the advice.

Can your DVD recorder record widescreen content?

I don't know (Sorry!). It's a Sony DVDR3305. The manual doesn't seem to mention widescreen. However my tv is a widescreen and the dvd recorder plays back recordings on it in widescreen. The problem above only happens when I try to play them (directly or compressed) on a pc.

That's normal. TVs overscan the picture so you never see the outer edge of the frame (typically 2 to 5 percent at each edge). Capture devices capture a frame that's slightly wider than the active picture region in case the picture is slightly off center. So you typically get small black borders (sometimes other noise) at the left and right edges of the frame. They capture a 720x576 frame with an active picture area of 702x576.

If you're making a video only for display on a computer you can crop those away if you want.

Thankyou. My bars look to be ~10% of picture each side.

Handbrake reports the source size as 720x576 as you say, and using the default strict anamorphic it states "Display size: 751x572". Setting custom cropping to 22 left and right says it will reduce the display size to about 721x572 (Is this the right approach?). However when I run the compression I still get a picture with black bars left and right. In other words the actual picture doesn’t seem to stretch horizontally to fill the screen.

Am I missing something obvious? What am I doing wrong?

[jagabo]

Thankyou. My bars look to be ~10% of picture each side.

That's more than the usual ITU padding. It sounds like you have a 4:3 source pillarboxed in a 16:9 broadcast. Probably all you need to do is convince handbrake your source is 16:9, not 4:3.

Post a short sample or use an editor that doesn't correct for aspect ratio to extract a single frame. Something with an obvious aspect ratio would be best. Like a big ball or circle, a car tire viewed directly from the side, etc. You can use VirtualDubMod to extract a frame as PNG or JPG. Or Mpg2Cut2 to extract a short video segment.

[PeterDuggan]

It sounds like you have a 4:3 source pillarboxed in a 16:9 broadcast. Probably all you need to do is convince handbrake your source is 16:9, not 4:3.

How do I convince it? I've attached a short vob file of recording as requested. Thanks very much for your help jagabo.

[sanlyn]

That clip has a 4:3 aspect ratio. It's neither a wide screen image nor a wide screen aspect ratio. It should play on any wide screen monitor with side pillars. If you're playing this mernu clip on a wide screen TV and it fills the screen, the image has been stretched on your TV, which means you're playing it incorrectly.

No idea what's on the other parts of the DVD video. You submitted a menu screen.

[manono]

Nice work uploading the menu. You didn't look at what you cut out before uploading it?

I'm sure the DVD is 4:3 and it's supposed to play on your widescreen TV set with big pillarbars (side bars). So, you're capping 4:3 material from standard definition channels, and not hi-def channels, right? Or maybe the DVD recorder only records in 4:3? But for future reference, upload a piece of the actual movie. Open a VOB in DGIndex. Scroll to a place with video from the movie. Use the [ and ] buttons to isolate a small 10 second piece. Then File->Save Project and Demux Video. Upload the resulting M2V file.

[jagabo]

Yes, the menu may not be indicative of movie content. As others have said, the VOB is 4:3 DAR and should show with pillarboxes on a 16:9 TV:



And the video itself has small black borders (8 to 10 pixels) at the left and right edges, as most analog video captures do.

[PeterDuggan]

That clip has a 4:3 aspect ratio. It's neither a wide screen image nor a wide screen aspect ratio. It should play on any wide screen monitor with side pillars. If you're playing this mernu clip on a wide screen TV and it fills the screen, the image has been stretched on your TV, which means you're playing it incorrectly.

No idea what's on the other parts of the DVD video. You submitted a menu screen.

I'm sure the DVD is 4:3 and it's supposed to play on your widescreen TV set with big pillarbars (side bars). So, you're capping 4:3 material from standard definition channels, and not hi-def channels, right? Or maybe the DVD recorder only records in 4:3?

Thanks fellows. The dvd recorder actually plays back on my widescreen tv without any side pillars.
That first file was a dvd recording of the menu from the upc cable box (not a DVD menu). I chose for the "o" letters to allow you judge the aspect ratio. They look right on my widescreen telly (I think anyway).
This second upload is a short section of dvd recording from BBC News.
Thanks very much for your help guys. This has me completely fooled.

[sanlyn]

mkv ain't dvd. The mkv plays on my 'puter as 4:5 (squished), no side bars. I thought your original post stated you had DVD's (not mkv's) that played pillared. If this came from your DVD recorder, it's been re-processed. Can't help you there.

[manono]

Yeah, but it does look as if it's supposed to be 16:9, no matter how it was capped and no matter how it was further ruined by the reencode.

Just a guess here (and as sanlyn mentioned, no real way to tell without an untouched sample), but I think the recorder only caps 4:3 (maybe check the manual?) and you'll have to resize it in the reencode, to something like 640x360, or set a PAR in the resulting MKV.

[sanlyn]

I figured it was recorded 4:3 and flagged for 16:9, but whatever made the mkv kept the original 4"5 PAL AR. But couldn't say for sure without a piece of the vob .

[PeterDuggan]

mkv ain't dvd. The mkv plays on my 'puter as 4:5 (squished), no side bars. I thought your original post stated you had DVD's (not mkv's) that played pillared. If this came from your DVD recorder, it's been re-processed. Can't help you there.

Sorry I’m so clueless, vob file below. Interesting that the mkv file plays ok on your pc. It has bars all round on mine.

I think the recorder only caps 4:3 (maybe check the manual?) and you'll have to resize it in the reencode, to something like 640x360, or set a PAR in the resulting MKV.

Manual says…
Picture/Display
Aspect ratio: 4:3, 16:9

whatever made the mkv kept the original 4"5 PAL AR.

That was handbrake.

Thanks guys for your patience and help.

[thymej]

From what I can see, the little black bars are part of the vob and you will have to do what someone said above and crop them out when you re-encode with handbrake. If you want to keep the AR, after you crop, you ether have to resize back to the original size or crop all 4 side also to keep the AR (see manono's reply below for what the AR should be, not what the vob says).

Mediainfo says this about your latest VOB upload.
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 35.0 MiB
Duration : 1mn 1s
Overall bit rate : 4 755 Kbps
Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 1mn 1s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 4 310 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 4 380 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 576 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 25.000 fps
Standard : PAL
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.416
Stream size : 31.8 MiB (91%)

[manono]

That's a 4:3 DVD that should be 16:9. You quoted the manual that states the DVD recorder is capable of capping to both 4:3 and 16:9. If so, perhaps there's a place in the set-up screen where you can choose one or the other? Perhaps in the 'TV Settings' screen? If not, then try 'Preferences', maybe.

Otherwise, both PGCEdit and DVDPatcher can change the DVD's DAR from 4:3 to 16:9. PGCEdit will change the IFOs and that's the way I'd do it. After doing that maybe even Handbrake can handle it correctly.

[smrpix]

That's normal. TVs overscan the picture so you never see the outer edge of the frame (typically 2 to 5 percent at each edge). Capture devices capture a frame that's slightly wider than the active picture region in case the picture is slightly off center. So you typically get small black borders (sometimes other noise) at the left and right edges of the frame. They capture a 720x576 frame with an active picture area of 702x576.

If you're making a video only for display on a computer you can crop those away if you want.

Before things get too far off track. This was the correct answer, way back at #3. Then add in #16

[manono]

Before things get too far off track. This was the correct answer, way back at #3.

No, and jagabo replied differently (as did I) after more information came out. Although similar problems are the result of some small amount of black bars on the sides of the active video, this isn't one of them. What the OP has definitely isn't normal.

[jagabo]

Yes, the MKV looks like it should be ~16:9 DAR, maybe with a little too much of the frame cropped away. Does the attached file (no audio) look about right on your TV? It's simply the same video encoded with the same frame size but flagged as 16:11 pixel aspect ratio.

[sanlyn]

I don't know if it matters, but on two of my PC's the only player that got the mkv right was Media Player Classic. Perfecto. WMP did nothing but go into a dead faint and pop up that famous failed app window. PowerDVD10 played 4 frames and dropped dead. VLC played it with pillars and crashed when I tried to resize the screen.

[jagabo]

Which file? Mine or the OP's? Both play fine on all my players, aside from the incorrect AR with the OP's MKV. WMP, MPCHC, KMPlayer, PotPlayer, SMPlayer, VLC.

[sanlyn]

Which file? Mine or the OP's? Both play fine on all my players, aside from the incorrect AR with the OP's MKV. WMP, MPCHC, KMPlayer, PotPlayer, SMPlayer, VLC.

Your mkv, the SAR1611. (oops, I forgot the earlier mkv). The only player you listed that I have is WMP-9 (Really, I do NOT want 10 or 11 !). This PC's only a month old.

[PeterDuggan]

Yes, the MKV looks like it should be ~16:9 DAR, maybe with a little too much of the frame cropped away. Does the attached file (no audio) look about right on your TV? It's simply the same video encoded with the same frame size but flagged as 16:11 pixel aspect ratio.

Wow that looks great. Plays perfectly on my pc using vlc, WMP Classic, WMP 11, and on my widescreen TV via a media player. Well done and thankyou jagabo!

How do I do it? I have seen PAR width and height under the Picture tab of Handbrake but I don't see how to set a pixel aspect ratio?

[PeterDuggan]

You quoted the manual that states the DVD recorder is capable of capping to both 4:3 and 16:9. If so, perhaps there's a place in the set-up screen where you can choose one or the other?

Actually I think that was misleading. The only setting available is to set the output to the tv at 16:9, 4:3 letterbox, or 4:3 panscan.

[manono]

Actually I think that was misleading. The only setting available is to set the output to the tv at 16:9, 4:3 letterbox, or 4:3 panscan.

OK, so that just tells the DVD recorder how to output for your TV set. And you have it already set for 16:9 output, I suppose, since you have a widescreen TV?

So it has nothing to do with how the shows are captured and everything is recorded as 4:3. Then for MKV stuff you'll either have to resize it properly, or set a PAR as jagabo did. For DVD I'd change the DAR to 16:9 using PGCEdit. If you need instructions just ask. No reencoding will be necessary unless you intend to shrink the files.

[PeterDuggan]

So everything is recorded as 4:3. Then for MKV stuff you'll either have to resize it properly, or set a PAR as jagabo did. No reencoding will be necessary unless you intend to shrink the files.

Thanks yes I do want to shrink them. Can you or jagabo tell me please how to resize it properly or set a PAR, preferably in Handbrake cos that's what I use to shrink them. Thanks very much.

[jagabo]

On the Picture tab in Handbrake:

Disable Keep Aspect Ratio.
Set Anamorphic to Custom.
Set PAR Width to 16, PAR Height to 11.

[PeterDuggan]

Thankyou very much jagabo and thankyou all for being so helpful.

[manono]

So everything is recorded as 4:3. Then for MKV stuff you'll either have to resize it properly, or set a PAR as jagabo did. No reencoding will be necessary unless you intend to shrink the files.

You left out part of the quote - the part that applies to DVD. Of course, if the source is DVD and the output is to be MKV with H264 video you have to reencode. For DVD I said:

For DVD I'd change the DAR to 16:9 using PGCEdit. If you need instructions just ask. No reencoding will be necessary unless you intend to shrink the files.

Or maybe I wasn't clear that the 'no reencoding' part applied only for DVD. If you do plan on reencoding the DVDs to a smaller or better DVD - to filter and/or shrink the files - then it's a simple matter to set the encoder for 16:9 output.

[PeterDuggan]

Thanks manono.