streaming high bitrate 1080p on 10/100 LAN

[ND30]

hi guys,

I hope maybe someone can help me out here...
I'm having an issue to stream high bitrate 1080p videos from PC to the Xtreamer.
lower bitrate content up to +- 11mbps working good, higher ones just causing lag/freeze and its gettin worst on dynamic scenes.
here's some details :
LAN is 100Mb on wire with D-link DIR-615 router.
my PC (the one I streaming from) is AMD 64 3800 dual core with 4G DDR2 memory , 7200 SATA2 drives and Gigabyte ATI Radeon 4500HD.

if my PC canot play properly these high bitrate files then my streamer wont play as well ?
CPU (of my PC ) for streaming proposes is really that important ?

10x in advance

[yoda313]

CPU (of my PC ) for streaming proposes is really that important ?

If you are doing any kind of transcoding yes it is that important.

If you are just watching the video locally on the computer the video card can take over some of the load if its an h264 file and the card has h264 decoding on it.

However if you are transcoding to something this xtreamer (don't know anything about it so I'm adlibbing here) than your computer is doing lots of work to make it recognizable to this unit.

Are you doing anything else with the computer while streaming? Anything intensive besides the streaming? Are you downloading or uploading anything? Do you have lots of other computers/devices actively using your router?

It could be overloaded if there are lots of things going on at once.

[ND30]

first, thanks for your answer.

while streaming im not doing a thing on my PC. I have a 2 PCs total.(dekstop and laptop) you asking if I'm actually taking over its bandwidth somehow but no. that's the strange thing here seems like the PC is not overloaded', 40% of ram is being used and CPU is the same , even lower.

but if I'm only streaming the video from the desktop and not doing any type of conversion on it is it matter if the video itself cannot play properly on the desktop itself ? if yes - maybe this is the thing. if not 'cos streaming required from it only large amount of RAM ( for buffering) so it has to be something else...

forgot to mention Cat5 copper, should be fine anyway right ?
maybe i should test it again while crossing between the desktop and other PC directly and will try to play the video on remote PC, it will tell if I got poor quality of LAN cables . but again 720 and low bitrate still working good.

[cd090580]

First check the CPU load while streaming

[MOVIEGEEK]

My guess is the video is being transcoded on-the-fly and your PC can't keep up. What Xtreamer model are you using? Have you updated the firmware? Cat5 should work but I would upgrade to 5e or 6.

[ND30]

i did some tests,

I crossed between my laptop to my desktop and still got the same thing, so I'm not counting on poor LAN cables somewhere.
I even try to play the file locally and of course I got even worst results, CPU now reached to 85% even 90%.

cd090580

First check the CPU load while streaming

and while I'm streaming, PC reaching to 30% max.

MOVIEGEEK

My guess is the video is being transcoded on-the-fly and your PC can't keep up. What Xtreamer model are you using? Have you updated the firmware? Cat5 should work but I would upgrade to 5e or 6.

I'm using XtreamerDVD model. latest f/w 2.7.0 and this model comes with Realtek 1073 chipset if it helps...


oh! and btw - if I'm connecting USB storage device to my Xtreamer the problematic files playing just great! not a single freeze!

[MOVIEGEEK]

oh! and btw - if I'm connecting USB storage device to my Xtreamer the problematic files playing just great! not a single freeze!

Then the problem must be the PC, you just have to find the bottleneck. I would start with the cable, get a Cat 5e or 6 cable. I was getting dropped signals on my old Cat 5 cable so I replaced it with Cat 5e and my problems went away.

[ND30]

oh! and btw - if I'm connecting USB storage device to my Xtreamer the problematic files playing just great! not a single freeze!

Then the problem must be the PC, you just have to find the bottleneck. I would start with the cable, get a Cat 5e or 6 cable. I was getting dropped signals on my old Cat 5 cable so I replaced it with Cat 5e and my problems went away.

yeah but cross cable between the PC and laptop wont indicate something else ? 'cos I got same result that way...

I'm thinking maybe 3800 dual core CPU may be too low for these kind of tasks and should be replaced with 5000/6000 series

[jagabo]

I had similar problems with a WDTV Live and a Windows PC. The problem is a combination of insufficient buffering on the player, and insufficient file read ahead buffering on the PC. The video isn't being "streamed" to the Xtreamer, the device is simply reading a file on a network share. When the bitrate gets too high the buffer on the Xtreamer is emptied (because it's too small) and sometimes it takes too long for Windows to read the next bit of the file on the server (it doesn't know the video being "streamed" so it reads data on demand, not buffering ahead). Note that a file may have peak bitrates much higher than it's average bitrate. It doesn't matter that the network is running at 100 Mb/s (with a max real world throughput around 80 Mb/s after all TCP/IP networking overhead). The Xtreamer is simply waiting for Windows to read the next part of the file. Using CBR test files I was finding problems started around 30 to 50 Mb/s depending on which server I was using. The WDTV had no problems playing the same files off a local USB drive. It could handle over 70 Mb/s CBR.

The same files may play ok from a Linux server. I found that to be the case. Apparently, Linux performs more read ahead buffering on network accesses. There may be Windows settings for that too. I found Win7 to work a little better than XP as a file server.

If the Xtreamer has a DLNA client you can use a DLNA server on the PC. DLNA uses UPD rather than IP -- UDP has much less overhead. And the server only sends the selected video and audio streams (as opposed to the player having to read everything in the file when using file shares).

[cd090580]

If your CPU only run at 30% while streaming, it's powerful enough.
The problem must be at another place (also check network usage while streaming). Maybe disable QoS or other unneeded protocols under your NIC settings

[_Al_]

These media players have particular firmware in them and they could be very fussy, those media players are not PC's. They can handle one video format better then the other. It depends on container too sometimes.There could be no logic in it sometimes. Just firmware glitches.

Check some media streaming forum, state your player name, type of video, what you do, sharing or DLNA.

[ND30]

DLNA not supported by my device, but anyway you teory make sense but I actuall dont know what player the device use in the background.

I think I will try to assist Xtreamer forum maybe there I will get some solutions and meanwile try to get Cat5e cable for testing. worst case I will reinstall Win7 maybe some processes messed it up somehow.

10x guys anyway ! really appreciate !

[pandy]

Issue is probably in limited LAN speed most of those players have very poor support for LAN.

100mbps work OK even on cat 3 cabling, however you can check streaming speed with help http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20100104-zap-wireless-tool - i think that it can be used also for cable - only second PC is required - if zap doesn't work you may use Iperf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iperf

[ND30]

Issue is probably in limited LAN speed most of those players have very poor support for LAN.

100mbps work OK even on cat 3 cabling, however you can check streaming speed with help http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20100104-zap-wireless-tool - i think that it can be used also for cable - only second PC is required - if zap doesn't work you may use Iperf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iperf

Sounds good... will try this out and update. Thanks

[ND30]

Issue is probably in limited LAN speed most of those players have very poor support for LAN.

100mbps work OK even on cat 3 cabling, however you can check streaming speed with help http://www.ruckuswireless.com/press/releases/20100104-zap-wireless-tool - i think that it can be used also for cable - only second PC is required - if zap doesn't work you may use Iperf http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iperf

ok, I tested many time the network from both end points. from my laptop to my desktop I got pretty same results.
Attached the last 15 lines (but I captured throuput for 60sec each time)

Over the network including the router - avarage throughput around 87.5mbps with no single dropped packet.
Im guessing it means cables all the way functioning as expected right !?

440: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 164185=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 375=rx in 50.1ms 88.2mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.6 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
441: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 164559=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 374=rx in 50.1ms 87.9mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.6 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
442: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 164926=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 367=rx in 50.0ms 86.4mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.6 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
443: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 165302=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 376=rx in 50.0ms 88.5mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.6 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
444: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 165666=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 364=rx in 50.1ms 85.6mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.6 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
445: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 166031=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 365=rx in 50.0ms 85.9mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
446: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 166401=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 370=rx in 50.0ms 87.1mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
447: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 166768=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 367=rx in 50.3ms 85.9mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
448: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 167130=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 362=rx in 50.1ms 85.1mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
449: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 167511=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 381=rx in 50.1ms 89.5mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
450: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 167884=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 373=rx in 50.6ms 86.9mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
451: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 168261=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 377=rx in 50.1ms 88.7mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 85.1 83.6 82.3
452: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 168621=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 360=rx in 50.1ms 84.6mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 84.9 83.6 82.3
453: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 169006=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 385=rx in 50.9ms 89.0mbps 87.4 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 84.9 83.6 82.3
454: 192.168.1.6->192.168.1.2 169389=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 383=rx in 50.1ms 90.0mbps 87.5 | 93.2 87.5 85.5 84.9 83.6 82.3

When crossing between both desktop to laptop directly I'm getting of course much better result - avarage throughput around 720mbps still with no dropped packets:

353: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1085972=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3188=rx in 50.0ms 750.8mbps 721.6 | 784.6 738.0 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
354: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1089180=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3208=rx in 50.0ms 754.9mbps 721.7 | 784.6 738.0 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
355: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1092438=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3258=rx in 50.0ms 767.1mbps 721.8 | 784.6 738.0 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
356: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1095546=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3108=rx in 50.2ms 729.3mbps 721.8 | 784.6 738.0 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
357: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1098778=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3232=rx in 50.0ms 761.2mbps 721.9 | 784.6 738.0 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
358: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1101940=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3162=rx in 50.1ms 743.3mbps 722.0 | 784.6 738.3 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
359: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1105113=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3173=rx in 50.1ms 745.3mbps 722.0 | 784.6 738.3 622.6 593.3 457.6 356.5
360: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1108137=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3024=rx in 50.0ms 711.7mbps 722.0 | 784.6 738.3 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
361: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1111255=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3118=rx in 50.1ms 733.3mbps 722.1 | 784.6 738.0 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
362: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1114458=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3203=rx in 50.1ms 753.4mbps 722.1 | 784.6 738.3 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
363: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1117627=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3169=rx in 50.6ms 737.6mbps 722.2 | 784.6 738.0 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
364: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1120730=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3103=rx in 50.1ms 729.2mbps 722.2 | 784.6 738.0 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
365: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1123923=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3193=rx in 50.5ms 744.0mbps 722.3 | 784.6 738.0 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
366: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1127101=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3178=rx in 50.0ms 747.9mbps 722.3 | 784.6 738.3 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5
367: 192.168.1.13->192.168.1.2 1130283=rx 0=dr 0=oo 0=rp 3182=rx in 50.0ms 749.1mbps 722.4 | 784.6 738.3 669.1 594.2 457.6 356.5

[MOVIEGEEK]

Your router is slowing your speed down significantly, go to your router settings and make sure it's set to N.

[jagabo]

90 Mb/s is normal for 100 Mb/s Ethernet. It won't help with your Xtreamer but get a gigabit switch (when you see one on sale) for the rest of your computers. Connect all the devices to the gigabit switch, and the switch to your router.

[pandy]

IMHO player itself have problem with LAN speed - similar situation is for many different small networked devices - or drivers are very poor or overall performance for those small systems is to low to deal efficiently with high LAN bitrate + other functionality.
Search for better firmware (better LAN drivers for Xtreamer).

FYI I've tried from pure curiosity how 100mbps Ethernet will work on power cable (ordinary power cable used normally to distribute electricity in home) - it works without problem on distance 5m (only 5m tested - i have only 10m of such cable in this time).
From my personal experience modern Ethernet is quite robust and tolerant.

[ND30]

Guys, what makes you think that Gig switch will help here ? anyway my Xtreamer is 10/100Mb and my router has 100Mb ports so that why I'm thinking more about my PC as a root cause. maybe its not overloaded while streaming still maybe clean installation will end this thing.

[ND30]

IMHO player itself have problem with LAN speed - similar situation is for many different small networked devices - or drivers are very poor or overall performance for those small systems is to low to deal efficiently with high LAN bitrate + other functionality.
Search for better firmware (better LAN drivers for Xtreamer).

FYI I've tried from pure curiosity how 100mbps Ethernet will work on power cable (ordinary power cable used normally to distribute electricity in home) - it works without problem on distance 5m (only 5m tested - i have only 10m of such cable in this time).
From my personal experience modern Ethernet is quite robust and tolerant.

you talking about HOMEPLUG right ? I have HPNA