Totally perplexed by two identical videos which show different metadata.

[mnations]

Hi All,

This has bugged me for years. So I know the short answer, they probably aren't identical. However for the life of me I can't figure out what the heck is different between them.

I have an HD camera that creates m2t video on HDV tapes. I use HDVSplit to pull the video and load that directly onto my home server (running WHS 2003). The media server built in to the machine I bought is a twonky media server that server up the videos.

I just bought a new tv that supports 802.11n and am now finally able to stream video that I have taken from the camera directly to the tv. Previously the files were too large without converting, so I would convert down to something smaller and stream to my Xbox 360. The TV is a Samsung UN6D8000 tv that uses DLNA to speak directly with the server and show the videos. Fortunately it has the proper codecs to see m2t format, which used to be rather rare.

However for some reason, video that I pulled a long time ago from Sony Vegas application will show the proper video length and resolution. This gives me more options when it comes for forware/rewind, etc. The video pulled from HDVSplit does not recognize the length or resolution.

Neither recognize the 16:9 native format, so I have to adjust the view on the tv to one of the presets that stretches it from 4:3 to 16:9 (this is another question I have, but that can be saved for later).

I use a tool called FormatFactory to analyze the video. From everything I can tell they are identical in size and specs.

Video 1

General
ID : 255 (0xFF)
Complete name : D:\Video\Test\Clip-0005.m2t
Format : MPEG-TS
Format_Commercial_IfAny : HDV 1080i
File size : 530 MiB
Duration : 2mn 44s
Start time : UTC 2008-12-25 12:09:51
End time : UTC 2008-12-25 12:12:30
Overall bit rate : 27.0 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-25 12:09:51

Video
ID : 2064 (0x810)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Video
Format_Commercial_IfAny : HDV 1080i
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.536
Stream size : 496 MiB (93%)

Audio
ID : 2068 (0x814)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 90ms
Stream size : 7.54 MiB (1%)

Video2

General
ID : 255 (0xFF)
Complete name : D:\Video\Test\Clip-0005.m2t
Format : MPEG-TS
Format_Commercial_IfAny : HDV 1080i
File size : 530 MiB
Duration : 2mn 44s
Start time : UTC 2008-12-25 12:09:51
End time : UTC 2008-12-25 12:12:30
Overall bit rate : 27.0 Mbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 33.0 Mbps
Encoded date : UTC 2008-12-25 12:09:51

Video
ID : 2064 (0x810)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Video
Format_Commercial_IfAny : HDV 1080i
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@High 1440
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Format settings, GOP : M=3, N=15
Codec ID : 2
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 25.0 Mbps
Width : 1 440 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : Component
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Compression mode : Lossy
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.536
Stream size : 496 MiB (93%)

Audio
ID : 2068 (0x814)
Menu ID : 100 (0x64)
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 2
Codec ID : 3
Duration : 2mn 44s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 384 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Delay relative to video : 90ms
Stream size : 7.54 MiB (1%)

I also tried a packet analyzer to find the headers and see if that had any difference:

Video1

PES header
stream_id: E0 (video stream 224)
PES_packet_length: 0 (undefined)
PES_scrambling: 0
PES_priority: True
data_alignment: False
copyright: False
original_or_copy: True
PTS_flag: True
DTS_flag: True
ESCR_flag: False
ES_rate_flag: False
DSM_trick_mode_flag: False
additional_copy_info_flag: False
PES_CRC_flag: False
PES_extension_flag: False
PES_header_data_length: 10
PTS: 299429130
DTS: 299420121

Video sequence
Sequence header code (00 00 01 B3) found at 23
horizontal_size: 1440
vertical_size: 1080
aspect_ratio: 16:9
frame_rate: 29.97
AFD not found in this packet

Video2

PES header
stream_id: E0 (video stream 224)
PES_packet_length: 0 (undefined)
PES_scrambling: 0
PES_priority: True
data_alignment: False
copyright: False
original_or_copy: True
PTS_flag: True
DTS_flag: True
ESCR_flag: False
ES_rate_flag: False
DSM_trick_mode_flag: False
additional_copy_info_flag: False
PES_CRC_flag: False
PES_extension_flag: False
PES_header_data_length: 10
PTS: 299429130
DTS: 299420121

Video sequence
Sequence header code (00 00 01 B3) found at 23
horizontal_size: 1440
vertical_size: 1080
aspect_ratio: 16:9
frame_rate: 29.97
AFD not found in this packet

I have no idea where to go from here. Everything I look at they appear identical. Obviously there is something, somewhere that is different but I don't know where to look next.

Any help in direction for tools or anything would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

[edDV]

How did you capture directly to WHS 2003? I never tried that.

How is your server connected to the Samsung UN6D8000* TV?

Have you tried direct file playback from a USB flash drive or hard disc?

Or directly from the camcorder?

I suspect the twonky media server is downconverting the files.


* excellent HDTV by the way.

[edDV]

Neither recognize the 16:9 native format, so I have to adjust the view on the tv to one of the presets that stretches it from 4:3 to 16:9 (this is another question I have, but that can be saved for later).

This isn't right. It should be seen as 16:9.

[mnations]

I didn't capture directly to WHS 2003 (sorry, skipped a few steps for brevity). I recorded onto a PC using HDVSplit and then copied the files over to the WHS2003 server.

The TV is connected to WHS2003 indirectly through the network, and to be honest I don't know how the TV sees it. I don't know much about DLNA, but from what I understand it is using this to access the files (which also overrides the normal user access rights). As a result it may be skipping TwonkyMedia altogether.

From a network perspective, I have the TV hooked up through Wireless-N @ 300mbps max and the WHS2003 is wired into the same router. I assume the fact that they are on the same subnet always them to be able to communicate.

I have not tried the other ways you mention, and try not to use the HD camera for much more than filming and getting video off the camera to put as little wear as possible on the gears and video heads. I have an old non-HD camera that I use to rewind the tapes.

When I view the files through Windows Explorer it shows the proper length, time, and resolution of the files. Windows Media Player plays them in the proper format.

I've read a little about DLNA and how the different manufacturers can interpret the standards differently, but that still doesn't make sense that it would look at what appears to be an identical file and not be able to read it the same.

And thanks about the TV. I just picked it up on a Cyber Monday deal and was pretty excited about it. Having the ability to stream videos directly off the camera has been something I've wanted to do for a *long* time, and I finally have the setup to do it. Previously I'd convert them all down to WMVs so the Xbox 360 could see them, and that is tough on a computer with all the tapes I have backed up. I don't have Windows Media Center available which theoretically makes the process a little easier.

The apps available through Samsung aren't all fully developed yet, but this alone has made it totally worth the purchase. We have hours and hours of videos that the kids can watch now without having the spend a large amount of time converting them into useable bite size pieces.

[edDV]

Again I suspect the DLNA twonky media server is downconverting the files.

I've noticed that even in my high speed wired CAT6 network that the Tversity DLNA server (in default settings) will re-encode high bit rate Mpeg2 and h.264 video on the fly giving a lower quality result at the display. If I access the files directly over the network I get a full quality stream.

I haven't gotten around to fixing this yet since I have an alternate method to access the WHS/NAS servers.

Be aware that a typical USB flash drive can't keep up with 25 Mbit HDV causing skipped frames. You need a fast USB flash drive or a hard drive.

Also, don't be too comfortable with "Wireless-N @ 300mbps max" wireless. It will max far below that for sustained video streaming. This will depend on the quality of the wireless connection and other network traffic. But it should be able to keep up with 25 Mbps HDV.

[mnations]

Is there any way to check what TwonkyMedia is doing at the device (on the tv, I suspect not)?

Thanks...The only thing that makes me wonder about this is why would the media server treat two seemingly identical files differently?

I put both of these files in the same folder, they appear identical in all aspects, but when I access them from the tv on the other side of the streaming one of them loses it's ability to recognize resolution and length while the other one still can.

The only difference I know of between the two files is the way they were captured. Which makes me wonder if there is some type of header info planted elsewhere that I can't see either through Windows or through the tools that I have.