Correct cleaning/alignment for a Betamax?

[moxiecat]

I have two Betamaxes that have been in my family for a long time. Both are decent models, and have been taken care of. For the most part, both play back tapes fine, albeit with the occasionally speck of dust or dirt. I've been using them to transfer my family's huge Betamax collection to DVD.

However, I have noticed a few minor problems with both Betamaxes. I can see what I can only describe as a "pattern" or "texture" that appears on part of the video image. Imagine the texture of a carpet or a towel, and then imagine that texture, nearly invisible, in areas of the video. On the one Beta, it is a thick stripe down the middle-right side of the picture. (On the other Beta, the problem is mainly random areas of wavy lines, but similar in appearance.) On both Betas, these are subtle problems that can only be noticed during darker sections of video or solid areas of color. Adjusting tracking can diminish this effect, but the tradeoff is that can also create tracking problems at the top or bottom of a normally-fine videotape.

I'm actually not posting to ask anyone to solve the "texture" problem--although if anyone has an idea on this, please post away!

My main question is, what is the correct care for a Betamax? I have been thinking about taking the Beta to the local video repair shop to have its heads cleaned professionally. (My head cleaner tapes haven't done much that I can see.) Is there another process or alignment that I should ask for as well? I know that I have had the heads on my camcorder aligned on occasion in the past, but does this apply to a Betamax as well? I am hoping that a good cleaning, or alignment of some kind, will clear up these semi-transparent "texture" issues.

Any advice is most welcome. Thanks!

[filmboss80]

Unless you can post a screenshot of the video image, it is difficult to diagnose the exact problem -- but my guess is that the tapes themselves are wearing out. Tape stretching, oxide dropout, and edge damage can all cause the type of problem you are describing. As far as your Betamax players, you may not necessarily have dirty tape heads, but the heads might be wearing out. Also, pinch rollers in the tape threading mechanisms may be wearing out, and this might add to tracking problems. So, you see, there are many possibilities. However, the most likely culprit is the age and wear on the tapes themselves. Try to make the best transfers you can before they are lost forever.

[schematic2]

I also have 2 Beta machines both giving black speckles (RF noise). I have just ordered all new capacitors for both power supplies. I'll let you know if this helped.
Cleaning and alignment never helped my issues, but its a good place to start on yours. When the capacitors arrive, and I have my unit apart, I'll post some pictures on how to clean the heads properly (if you would like)

[moxiecat]

Wow, thanks for the suggestions.

I'm not sure it's the tapes wearing out, because I've seen the same issue on a few different tapes (not all mine, either). I can try to do screen shots. I'm not sure that the issue will show up on a screen shot--it's a little subtle. I'll try though.

I am not familiar with repair work at all, or know anyone who specializes in Beta repairs. I'm willing to try it but I don't want to screw up my machines either.

Let's say the heads or pinch rollers are wearing out. Is there a way to replace them?

I'll get those screenshots posted as soon as I can. Thanks for the help!

[moxiecat]

Finally got some screenshots. I have one from each of my two Betamax decks. I hope the problems aren't too subtle to be apparent.

In this first one, there is a slight background "pattern." It's mostly visible as a vertical stripe down the middle-right side of the picture. If you can see it anywhere, look straight down from the "ADS" in the word "heads."

[moxiecat]

Here's the second one, from my second Betamax. This one has more of a "wavy lines" pattern which can be seen in various areas of the picture. It's more apparent on large areas of solid color. The best place to see it here is running from top to bottom on the right half of the picture. There are wavy lines that are pretty visible on the white cloth of the ghost costume.

[vhelp]

moxiecat, try not to use screen shots from utility screens. They are usually bare bones or crude output that had bypassed the usual chain of events for the final output.

That screen pic in for your betamax shows a lot of chroma noise (or, salt n pepper) and it was prob on account of the utility screen and type of (pre-recorded and vhs standard video feed that was mastered on these tapes) and should be avoided of analysis/comparison work.

But on the second betamax, the pic looks beautiful. I mean, there are no chroma noise what so ever. I love it. I wish *all* our standard vhs (and svhs) recording would look like that, but they don't. They always have chroma noise -- the salt n pepper I mentioned about in your first pic demo.

The noise you are seeing (IMO) seems to indicate you have some form of "feedback" going back into your betamax. I get something similar (hareybone noise) to yours on my Laserdisc player. Fortunate for me, I have a good Monster power strip (costed $79 buckeroes) with noise cancelation circuit for the Video signal and Coax cable (for my analog cable tv) and I get clean pictures every time.

Without going into much detail.. The feedback I am refering to is the one having to do with ground-loop problems. Could be anything in your house ranging from wall outlets to a cable (old cable tv) that was never removed and is still ground (though improperly) somewhere in/around your house or apt.

With the power strip I mentined above, and to eliminate the feedback (or your noise pattern) is to connect everything that will produce a picture on your TV set and your Computer monitor and your Capture Card. Anything that connects, either directly or indirectly must be connected to that power stip. There should be nothing else externally (other wall outlet) connected to your computer/betamax/capture card connection, etc.., otherwise you may end up still seeing the noise. Mind you, this is all assuming that your issue has to do with "feedback" noise.

I tell you, it should have been beta to of won that war (beta vs. vhs) but too bad they didn't, then.

-vhelp 4748

[moxiecat]

Hi Vhelp,

Thanks so much. I'm a bit of a newbie at some of this so please pardon me if I ask some questions about what you've said.

First, sorry about the "utility screen." (I'm assuming that means it's from a head cleaning tape?) I was looking for a tape that had a dark solid background and that's why I used it. I didn't realize that was a no-no. I'll try to find something else and post a new screen shot.

Both Betamaxes are plugged into a pretty good power strip. It's an APC "Performance Surge Arrest" with 11 outlets, phone plugs, the works. I have no idea how much it cost but it wasn't that cheap. It does share the strip with plugs for 2 VHS machines, a laptop plug, and a fax machine plug. I haven't seen any issues like this on those 2 VHS machines. But if you think any of this could be responsible for the problem, please let me know.

I've have no idea how to find a ground loop in my house. Yikes! There are a lot of outlets and cable from both DirecTV and local cable runs to my den, bedroom, and office (for the cable modem).

I am running the Betamax to a DVD recorder, not to a computer, so I'm assuming that I can leave the computer monitor and capture card that you mentioned out of the mix.

Honestly, I'm not sure how I can just assign the Betamax, DVD recorder and TV to that strip. Outlets and strips are always at a premium and there's always a lot to connect! But that's an idea I will remember.

Thanks so much for your help. Thanks for the compliment on the second Beta. I do have two pretty decent-model Betamaxes so I'd like to keep them in top condition and outputting the best picture possible. I agree with you about Beta v. VHS. We always had Betas in my house when I was growing up in the 1980s, and they were always great machines.

[themaster1]

neat video can help you on this i think you can remove a pattern in real time with it , never tried though

[Scooter_NJ]

I would reach out to Sony and ask if they will tune up the players. Sony used to have a flat rate for out of warranty repairs...something like 50 bucks plus parts.

In lieu of that, ask your local college video/AV department who does thier work.

[vhelp]

maxiecat, again, when I look at the picture detail of your posted image, all I can say is that we were short changed. I've seen so many demo pics and videos of home movies shot on consumer level equipments and where they were finally either transferd or archived onto standard vhs machines. In fact, I too, have gone that route on a few occasions. I even found an old taping I made of a baby shower, where I shot the video (on a tripod) some 10 years ago, and I can't remember why I archived it to vhs tape, but I did, and did so, in EP mode, too. When I found it last year, as a test of processing these types of videos, (every so often, when I feel I have something better to offer in terms of improved quality processess, I do this) I ran it through one of my improved process. Course, I kept a small snip of that latest trail and reviewed it a few days ago. And what I saw was not to my liking, though I did do a good job of it. I get better at it as time goes.

But, had I owned a betamax (as in yours, for instance) I'm pretty sure things would have turned out much, much better.

And, if what you say is true, that your current betamax machines you are using in these latest posts of those pictures originated in the 80's, then all I can say is we (meaning, I do) have crappy vcrs, though current as of 2001 in comparison to your 80's model. For the level of picture detail and quality, there is no comparison.

I don't remember the exact definition of ground loop erros. I know it has been discussed on these forum boards many times in the past. A search would prob show up a few of 'ov'em.

You didn't say what brand/make/model number that 2nd betamax was. Out of curiosity, what is it ??

-vhelp 4752

[lordsmurf]

Those are power-related (eletrical) noise patterns sneaking into the video. Depending on the severity, most MPEG-2 encoding will cover it up anyway.

Your player appears to be perfectly fine, don't get it "repaired" by Sony or anybody else. There's a chance it could come back working worse.

Isolate your power by putting a UPS with AVR between the wall plug and the VCR. Turn off anything else in the house that could cause problems. This includes the air conditioner, washing machine, etc.

Worse case may be the power into the house is dirty, or the wiring in the house is faulty/inferior (outdated).

Again, VCR appears fine. Power causes your problem.

Even the coax/s-video/composite cables could be picking up FM interference.

[moxiecat]

Thanks for the help. I've been meaning to post another screenshot for the first Betamax but I was away on vacation for the Fourth and haven't done it yet. (I know...excuses, excuses!)

The second screenshot, the one that VHelp likes, IS from an MPEG, so the noise patterns weren't covered up. It's from a finished DVD that I transferred rather than a raw source. In fact, I started this post because I saw the patterns on the finished transfer.

That Betamax is a Sony SL-HF650. It was a decent model in its day, just a slight step down from the ones that were considered the "best." I can't find this exact one on the BetaInfoGuide page, but looks like similar models were mid-1980s. It's probably in good shape because it was originally my grandparents' Betamax, and didn't get much use. In addition, this tape was BII, which is always a better choice than BIII, so that helped a lot with the quality too.

The first Beta/screenshot is from one of the so-called "dream" Betas, a Sony SL-HF900. I'll have to get a better screenshot.

I think I'm coming to the realization though that power is the issue. I'm going to start with getting better AV cables and I'm definitely going to explore Lord Smurf's suggestions too.

Thanks again.

[Scooter_NJ]

I still have and use the next one up..the 1000 and this baby:

http://www.soadv.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=SONSLHF2100&Categ..._Code=BetaVCRs

Talk about a kick ass 1/2 tape format!!

[piano632]

I used to see patterns similar to that at times, and by some trial and error I discovered the signal was too strong. If I used a signal splitter the patterns disappeared. I don't know if your problem is the same thing, but just thought I'd mention it.

[Videostorm]

moxiecat - Thank you so much for your post!!!! (if any of you are still in this forum...) And thank you to all who gave great solutions. I have the Sony Betamax SL-2000, which was a portable recorder that I would plug my color Betamax video camera into. In 1983 I got this set-up to video a couple of trips to Europe with, and of course, just to have for friends and family and local stuff. I have been having an awful time trying to figure out what is exactly on the screenshots you have posted. I was using a Dell Dimension 8250 with a 2.4GHz Pentium processor, and 768 MHz of memory, circa 2003 (my first computer) with Dell supplied capture card and Roxio Videowave Editing Software. As you can imagine, it was difficult at times (especially the rendering) with that hardware. My current computer using a Canopus Twin Pact 100 video converter is still giving me the same situation as is on your screenshots, and I can't wait to try what is suggested by vhelp and lordsmurf - thanks to all. You are all right, Betamax should have prevailed - it was way better than VHS!

[edDV]

I've never seen BetaMax look that good. Do you have a before example? Normal BetaMax would show more chroma smear.

The digital artifacts have nothing to do with analog BetaMax.

Show some sharper horizontal transitions with some chroma saturation, not a white sheet.