BD Authoring Problem: PAL to NTSC

[digitalfreaknyc]

I'm having a serious problem with authoring files that have been changed from PAL to NTSC. I've been experimenting with Blu-ray burning for the last few weeks and have had almost 100% success. All of my discs that I recorded myself using the Hauppauge or ones I downloaded in NTSC work perfectly fine. The only problem is this: the PAL to NTSC.

Here's a re-cap of what I've done:

I take the 25fps recording and put it into TSmuxer and demux the video/audio files.
I then take the audio and put it into eac3to and slow it down to NTSC.
I put the new ac3 file into TSmuxer and create a TS file, ticking the box that changes the frame-rate from 25fps to 24000/1001.
I then take the resulting TS and use multiAVCHD to create the disc.
Now, I've made barebones discs without any menu or any other files and I've made discs WITH menus and other NTSC-based extras. I get the same result when these PAL to NTSC discs played back on my PS3. Please note: the discs play back fine on my computer. Please see the pictures below.


Does anyone have any idea what might be causing this?

[digitalfreaknyc]

To add to the confusion, I just took multiAVCHD completely out of the equation and burned my own blu-ray via tsmuxer and I got the same problem. Obviously this is a flag that tsmuxer is creating. But what is it??

[digitalfreaknyc]

Here's a little info about the file that I'm using:

General
ID : 1
Complete name : C:\Documents and Settings\Craig\Desktop\when a man\00000.ts
Format : MPEG-TS
File size : 140 MiB
Duration : 2mn 8s
Overall bit rate : 9 151 Kbps
Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : Main@L4.0
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 8 052 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 40.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Top Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.162
Stream size : 123 MiB (88%)
Color primaries : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4, SMPTE RP177
Transfer characteristics : BT.709-5, BT.1361
Matrix coefficients : BT.709-5, BT.1361, IEC 61966-2-4 709, SMPTE RP177
Audio
ID : 4352 (0x1100)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Duration : 2mn 8s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 640 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Stream size : 9.79 MiB (7%)

[poisondeathray]

mediainfo is reporting that it's 23.976 yet interlaced . Probably tsmuxer didn't do the framerate conversion correctly

what are the source files? 25p ? 25i ? where are they from ?

note: don't rely on mediainfo alone, because it just reports the header information and can be inaccurate

[digitalfreaknyc]

mediainfo is reporting that it's 23.976 yet interlaced . Probably tsmuxer didn't do the framerate conversion correctly

what are the source files? 25p ? 25i ? where are they from ?

note: don't rely on mediainfo alone, because it just reports the header information and can be inaccurate

I just realized that. See, I put a 25i file into multiavchd and this is what happened. That's why I'm having the problem.
If you use 29.976, it speeds up the file.

The files are all HD movies from torrents.

Is there any way around this without re-encoding? I actually just found someone else who had the same problem but it looks like he had to reencode.
https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/318746-PS3-playback-of-MKV-1080i-25fps-23-976-sourc...19#post1973619

[poisondeathray]

If the source file is 25i (as in interlaced, 50 fields per second, 25 frames per second) , you can't simply make it progressive 23.976 . You have to deinterlace, re-encode and change the framerate. I suspect what you're seeing above is a single field not a frame .

See, I put a 25i file into multiavchd and this is what happened.

1920x1080 @ 25i (meaning 50 fields per second) is compliant spec for blu-ray and you could leave it as is. If that's what it was, it should work. If it was cropped, not full frame, then you have to re-encode and add the letterboxxing back.

If you don't know what it is, post a sample

[digitalfreaknyc]

If the source file is 25i (as in interlaced, 50 fields per second, 25 frames per second) , you can't simply make it progressive 23.976 . You have to deinterlace, re-encode and change the framerate. I suspect what you're seeing above is a single field not a frame . 1920x1080 @ 25i (meaning 50 fields per second) is compliant spec for blu-ray , leave it as is

If you don't know what it is, post a sample

25i is sped up and I cannot STAND PAL speed-up. Plus, the PS3 won't play it.

If it were 25p, you wouldn't have to re-encode, I'm told. You can just change the frame-rate in tsmuxer.

[johns0]

If the file is interlaced with duplicate frames then you can change the fps in tsmuxer to 23.976 and change the audio in eac3to from 25fps to 23.976 without re-encoding the video portion.

[digitalfreaknyc]

If the file is interlaced with duplicate frames then you can change the fps in tsmuxer to 23.976 and change the audio in eac3to from 25fps to 23.976 without re-encoding the video portion.

I'm not sure what that means: "interlaced with duplicate frames."

[poisondeathray]

If it were 25p, you wouldn't have to re-encode, I'm told. You can just change the frame-rate in tsmuxer.

If your file is interlaced, you would have to deinterlace first to get 25p, then do the pal slowdown . The deinterlacing requires re-encoding

So was this a PAL TV cap ? from an original film source ? so the original rate was 23.976 ?

[digitalfreaknyc]

If it were 25p, you wouldn't have to re-encode, I'm told. You can just change the frame-rate in tsmuxer.

If your file is interlaced, you would have to deinterlace first to get 25p, then do the pal slowdown . The deinterlacing requires re-encoding

Right. So I'm screwed and have no choice but to re-encode.
Thanks, guys.

[johns0]

I'm not sure what that means: "interlaced with duplicate frames."

It means that the interlaced frames are exactly the same picture wise in that there's no difference in the 2fields per frame so if its that way you can just change it from 25 to 23.976 fps in tsmuxer ,give it a try and if the picture looks the same with no weird interlacing effects then it's safe to change the fps.

[digitalfreaknyc]

I'm not sure what that means: "interlaced with duplicate frames."

It means that the interlaced frames are exactly the same picture wise in that there's no difference in the 2fields per frame so if its that way you can just change it from 25 to 23.976 fps in tsmuxer ,give it a try and if the picture looks the same with no weird interlacing effects then it's safe to change the fps.

That's what I originally did. See above.

[johns0]

Ok,i missed the part of muxing it back with the audio,you gotta re-encode then.

[multiAVCHD]

You need to get your files to 1920x1080 24fps (or 23.976) but PROGRESSIVE or 59.94fps INTERLACED. There is no way to get 1080i@25fps (and 25 fields) working properly. That's why you get HALF of the height, because you're missing half the interlaced lines (for a source which should be 50i/50fields 25fps).

[digitalfreaknyc]

Right. I'm told to try changing the properties in "alter detected properties." Will that work?

[digitalfreaknyc]

K...so i just got home and changed it to progressive but once avchd authors the disc, the resulting file is still interlaced. Is there anything I'm supposed to do besides hit "oK" after I've changed it to progressive?
Perhaps I'm doing something wrong, still?

[poisondeathray]

There's no way around it. You have to deinterlace and to pal slow down (i.e re-encode it)

[digitalfreaknyc]

There's no way around it. You have to deinterlace and to pal slow down (i.e re-encode it)

You don't have to pal-slow down if I've already used tsmuxer. That slowed it down already.

And, from what I'm told, it was actually broadcast in 1080p (UK broadcast) so there shouldn't be a problem with just altering the properties, as discussed above.

Or am I completely wrong?

[poisondeathray]

If it was true 1080p25 (native), then you could the slowdown directly without deinterlacing. But obviously it's not working for you. You need a native 25p sample for it to work.

In broadcast, nothing is native progressive, except 720p60 / 720p50 in PAL regions

The UK broadcasts 1080 content as 50i - so even 25p content is wrapped in a 50i stream . Similarly in North America, broadcast is 60i . So 24p content would be telecined (24p in 60i). For example, you couldn't do a speedup on the 60i stream, you would have to IVTC to recover the native 24p content first. So for the UK example, you would have to extract the NATIVE 25p stream before you do any speedup/slowdown

If you don't know what you have, post a sample

[multiAVCHD]

If you 'changed it to progressive' just by altering the detected properties WITHOUT transcoding it wouldn't be of much help unless you TRANSCODE the file. Then multiAVCHD will do the proper deinterlace + resize and ouput the proper content.

[digitalfreaknyc]

If you 'changed it to progressive' just by altering the detected properties WITHOUT transcoding it wouldn't be of much help unless you TRANSCODE the file. Then multiAVCHD will do the proper deinterlace + resize and ouput the proper content.

And by transcoding the file, that means i'm re-encoding, correct?

[multiAVCHD]

Yep.

[digitalfreaknyc]

When I go to transcode it, the preview screen is now all grey. What could be happening??? It won't process properly.