Please check my settings before I pull the trigger !!!

[FatBoy123]

Hello everyone and thank you so much for reading my post. For the LOVE of GOD I hope someone can help me from this insanity so that I can get on with the rest of my living days.

I'm old and with two jobs, 3 young kids and a LOT of responsibilities and this converting thing is killing me, about 4 month ago I finally decided to convert about 30 VHS tapes, 20 8mm tapes and 15 MiniDV tapes into xvid for easy archiving and watching on the LCD or computer, little did I know what mess I was getting into.

So I started reading sites such as this and doom9 and digitalFAQ, and now I'm even more confused then 4 month ago. So I'm about to give up, I just want somebody to see if the below work flow is almost correct so I will just go ahead with this.

Here are pictures of my capture card:
My capture device is one of those generic Chinese devices, picture below.

The ORG picture is of the file information taken of the original untouched uncompressed video file right after virtualdub finished the capturing.

The Xvid picture is the end result with the following is what I've done:



Capturing:

open virtualdub 1.9.9
do not touch any of the default settings. I'm in a PAL zone,

go to capture mode set the capture file.

on the video menu, the source is composite, all the format, source and display are dimmed out, I guess my capture card captures at the default 720x576 25fps mode. compression is set to the first choice which is NO Compression.

Audio is also no compression.

Capture settings to 25fps. and then I capture the video.



Editing:

All the editing I do is just to split the video into smaller chunks, I'm leaving it in Full Processing mode, or should I switch to Direct stream copy on the video menu.



Encoding into Xvid for final archiving:

Video > compression > xvid with the following tweaks only:
Profile: Unrestricted.
Encoding: single pass.
Target quantizer: 2
Quality preset: General purpose.
I also turn off the B-VOPs.


Video > Filter: I only add the Smart Deinterlace (2.8 beta 1) by Donal Graft with all the default settings.

Audio > I choose Direct Stream Copy.

And that's all I do, I go to Save as AVI and get over with it.


Someone PLEASE confirm that I'm on the right track so that I can get this done with.

I thank you all in advance.

Mohd Reza.

[Baldrick]

It looks okey. Maybe you could resize the avi to a 4:3 size(like 640x480) because not all players will resize it correctly but if you are just playing on the computer it should not be a problem.

Can you post a tiny avi xvid sample?

[FatBoy123]

Thank you so much Baldrick, here is a small 15MB clip of the final result which I'll just burn to a disc and archive.

I can't wait to start the process and finish this nightmare.

Mohd Reza.

[davexnet]

I took a look at it also. My main criticism would be the ghosting. Is this the result of encoding to xvid and not taking
the original interlacing into account ?

[FatBoy123]

Thanks again,

If it helps here is a very short 3 seconds clip taken from the original captured video directly from the capture card, untouched, personally I can't tell what's what sorry.

This 3 seconds video came to 78MB so I had to upload it on the depositfile hosting site, sorry for the inconvenience.
http://depositfiles.com/files/z513i41m3

[davexnet]

I deinterlaced it using the default setting in Vdub 199, then resized it to make it closer to 4:3.
De-interlacing gets rid of the ghosting - see what you think.

(bear in mind that if you want to make a DVD, the interlacing should be retained.)

[FatBoy123]

Dave, bless your heart, it looks perfect, I'm really happy with that. Please don't quit on me now, just hang in there with me for just a little,

1- So I capture the same way I did before, then deinterlace with the built in virtualdub deinterlacer versus Smart Deinterlace, right?
2- Should I use DivX codec like you used versus Xvid? what setting did you use with your Divx?
3- How and why should I resize? was it with a built in resizer? what settings?
4- Regarding your DVD question, I really like this Divx format as all my players play it, and it's very manageable.

At my current capture settings, I get 1 hour of 8mm tape into 60GB or so, I can change the settings if it's any use, this is a screenshot of my capture card settings:




Another question if you don't mind, what's the correct cutting procedure in virtualdud, I first capture the entire 2 hour tape on to the computer uncompressed and disconnect the capture card, do I now:

Option A:
Select "Direct Stream Copy" from both the Audio and Video menu, then using the MARK IN and MARK OUT buttons, delete all the unwanted scenes, after that's done, go back to full processing mode for the video (but keep direct mode for the audio) and load up the deinterlace and resize filter, choose the compression, and then with the same MARK buttons, choose the segaments I want and save the chunks into seperate files? OR...

Option B:
I FIRST re-compress the entire video into DivX or Xvid, with those filters, and THEN afterwords do the deleting of unwanted scenes and splitting the file into separate chunks, in this way, I suppose I have to choose DIRECT STREAM for both and no more compressing right?

I hope that someday somehow I can repay back your kindness.

Mohd Reza.

[davexnet]

I would capture the same as you did before, uncompressed AVI. (your dialog box above seems to be set to mpeg-2, but
that's not the format of the file you provided earlier).

I use Divx (version 6.85) because it works better in my Samsung standalone player. Not much to choose between it and Xvid,
see which works best in your player.
You want to resize to an aspect ratio of 4:3 which is as it should be. It was designed to be played on an SD TV with it's
4:3 shape - don't let 720*576 pixel source fool you, they're not square pixels.

As far as "option A' Vs. "option B" - it's best to make your snips on the uncompressed source, that way you don't have to worry about cutting on key frames, etc, etc.

Regarding xvid or Divx settings, start with the encoder options set to default. They're sensible options.
I like the CQ mode better than the fixed bitrate, so you may want to try CQ 4 -6.

Happy Encoding !

[FatBoy123]

We're almost there now, so just to paraphrase a summary:

Capturing:
Capture uncompressed audio and video 720x576 25fps mode.


Editing:
Load up the uncompressed video, Select "Direct Stream Copy" from both the Audio and Video menu, delete all the unwanted scenes, after that's done, go back to full processing mode for both video and audio, load up the built in deinterlace and resize filter, choose the compression, choose the segments I want and save the chunks into separate files.


Encoding:
Video > compression > Divx with the following settings:
Profile: Home Theater Profile.
Encoding Presets at 8.
1 pass quality based.
Target quantizer: 2
Quality preset: General purpose.

Video > Filter: Built in deinterlacer with all the default settings.
Video > Filter: Built in resizer with all the default settings except choose "Aspect ratio compute to 4:3"
Audio > MPEG Layer 3 48 kBit/s 24,000 6KB/s



I choose to compress the audio to maybe bring down the filesize, I'm getting about 80GB from 1 hour of 8mm video, is this about right?

Also, I presume once I change my video source from 8mm to VHS or MinDV, I keep all the above settings right?

If all the above is correct, then we are done, I thank you wholeheartedly and appreciate your time.

Mohd Reza.

[davexnet]

"I choose to compress the audio to maybe bring down the filesize, I'm getting about 80GB from 1 hour of 8mm video, is this about right?"

You're compressing the audio during the capture? nothing wrong as long a it doesn't cause you to drop
any frames.
Regarding the 4:3 resize, I would also select (on the right) "codec friendly sizing (multiples of eight)"
Are you using DIvx 7x? Regardless of the version, set it to default settings first, then make your changes.
Your editing steps look OK. Try a small section and see how it comes out.
The default interlacer (yadif) seems to work well. It's fast and gets good quality.
I think the other sources should also work as-is, the MiniDV being a digital source, quality may be a little better,
capture the stream directly (about 13GB an hour) you'll have to see.

One last thing, the original source you provided had quite a bit of chroma noise you may want to try this Virtualdub
filter (use the default setttings, put it after the deinterlace and before the resize)
Do an A/B comparison and see if it's worth it. http://freevcr.ifrance.com/virtualdub/cnr-en.html
Let us know how it comes out -
Dave

[FatBoy123]

Morning Dave,

No I'm setting up virtualdub to capture with NO compression in both audio and video, and this is what I get:


I don't know why it's showing audio as MPEG 3, I'm choosing PCM !!! Another thing, during live capture, It's not dropping any frames, but it's INSERTING about 100 frames for every half and hour of video, is this normal?


I'm all set now, I will do all the filters you mentioned and do a test run, then copy all the test files on to a DVD and try them out on all my DVD players and get back to you.

God Bless.

[FatBoy123]

Ok for the final:

CAPTURING:
RAW audio and video at 25fps 720x576 YUY2

Encoding:
Divx Home Profile, Encoding Presets at 8, 1 pass quality based. Target quantizer: 2
Filters in this order:
- Built in deinterlacer, default settings.
- Chroma filter, default settings.
- Built in resizer with all the default settings except choose "Aspect ratio compute to 4:3" codec friendly sizing (multiples of eight)

Audio > MPEG Layer 3 48 kBit/s 24,000 6KB/s

Here is a screenshot of the file info and a 30 second clip of the final product, I played it on the DVD players in the living room and it looked alright to my untrained eyes, of course it's nowhere near the quality of the original when played back direct to the TV, but I guess this is how it's supposed to be.

Take a quick look at it and give me the all clear sign if you think all is OK. Note that during capture virtualdub is INSERTING about 100 frames for every half and hour of video, is this normal?

[jagabo]

If it helps here is a very short 3 seconds clip taken from the original captured video directly from the capture card, untouched...
http://depositfiles.com/files/z513i41m3

There's something wrong with the chroma channels in that video. The bottom field appears to be using the chroma channels from the top field:



You should look into fixing your capture method. The top field is ok.

If you want really good deinterlacing look into AviSynth's TempGaussMC_beta1mod(). It will get rid of most of those buzzing near horizontal edges. It's really slow though. Yadif on the left, TGMC on the right:

[FatBoy123]

Jagabo, Thanks for the feedback, unfortunately I don't know what else to do about my capture card, it's a cheap Chinese crap with no settings, and I'm capturing at the highest resolution with no compression, so what else can be done.

Regarding that filter, it looks amazing, but installing it requires a genius, I still don't know what Avisynth is or does.

Thanks for your time though.

[davexnet]

Interesting development... The dropped frames could be a potential issue; be aware that there are probably sections
of your capture that will show signs on momentary jerkiness as frames were dropped. That is for you to decide
whether it's acceptable (or not).

I tried Vdub myself with my Avermedia tuner/capture card and I couldn't capture without dropped frames either.
I looked for another tool and found something right here on videohelp
https://www.videohelp.com/tools/Stoik_Video_Capture
it's extremely simple to use and perhaps worth a look. On my setup, I couldn't get the preview with audio - but the capture
itself was fine. I installed HuffyUV and used it for a test capture - worked very well.

The TempGaussMC_beta1mod() de-interlacer, as Jagabo implies is about the best quality available, but it's
extremely slow, probably < 5 fps. The usage of Avisynth can be anything from simple to extremely elaborate,
and for advanced work it's almost indispensable.

I don't know about the chroma channels issue. Is it a HW problem? Are the effects somewhat mitigated after
de-interlacing?

Finally I reviewed your family scene AVI, it looks good. Bitrate is 4850 Kbps; no hard and fast rule about that,
as long as your standalone will play it - some machines may find it a little high and choke.

[jagabo]

I thought I replied to this earlier but it's not here.

Jagabo, Thanks for the feedback, unfortunately I don't know what else to do about my capture card, it's a cheap Chinese crap with no settings, and I'm capturing at the highest resolution with no compression, so what else can be done.

Can you select Video -> Capture Pin...? If so see if you can change the colorspace there. Maybe one of the other options will work better. There might be some options in Video -> Crossbar... too.

Regarding that filter, it looks amazing, but installing it requires a genius, I still don't know what Avisynth is or does.

It's a little difficult to get TGMC set up -- just because you have to download and install several different filter packages. Once you've done that it's pretty easy to use though. Here's a link if you want to try it out:

http://avisynth.org/mediawiki/TempGaussMC

[jagabo]

I don't know about the chroma channels issue. Is it a HW problem?

A driver problem might be more likely. Unfortunately, you can't really separate the hardware and the driver.

Are the effects somewhat mitigated after de-interlacing?

It depends on which deinterlacer you use. If you use Yadif in VirtualDub with the Keep Top Field option it doesn't seem to cause a problem. It's is a problem with Keep Bottom Field although the sample clip was to jerky to notice. It would probably show up as a flicker in TGMC since only half the frames (assuming you kept the double frame rate) have the problem. But again, it would probably only really be noticeable in some shots. But if this is an "archive" you would want it to be as clean as possible.

FatBoy123, On the subject of archiving, if you're going to deinterlace with VirtualDub's Yadif mode, I recommend you use the double frame rate option (top field first for your video). The files will be bigger, and some players may have problems keeping up, but motions will be smoother. Compare the 30 fps and 60 fps examples in this post:

https://forum.videohelp.com/threads/307004-Best-framerate-conversion-%28eg-23-97-to-30-...=1#post1888926

[FatBoy123]

I will look into those last two points you mentioned and do a test run, Note that I mentioned virtualdub is INSERTING frames not dropping frames if that makes any difference, Anyhow I think we have now covered all the important basis and I'm just roaring to go.

I would like to wholeheartedly thank Dave and jagabo for your kindness and determination in sticking with me.

God Bless gentleman,

Mohd Reza.

[jagabo]

Try changing VirtualDub's A/V sync feature. One of the settings may alleviate your drop/insert frame problems. Capture -> Timing... Of course, check the A/V sync after capturing.