no video no audio

[Denster]

Hello,

I just purchased Sony Vegas Movie Studio HD v.9 and everything went well until I tried to save it (“render it”, “make movie”).

I tried saving it in several different formats and no matter how I saved it Windows Media Player would run it but no video or audio.

What am I doing (or not doing) wrong?

Any tips or advice would be greatly appreciated and thank you in advance.
Denster

[poisondeathray]

WMP pre windows7 doesn't come with any codecs (except WMV), they need to be installed separately

So either install the corresponding codec that you render out with or use a media player that has internal codecs included like VLC or SMPlayer or MPCHC

[True Colors]

Windows media player is really, really, really limited. It cannot play many types of files.

You should just download and use one of those players that poisondeathray recommended. They are all free and they are all much better than windows media player. VLC is especially easy to use.

TC

[Denster]

Thank you poisondeathray and True Colors. What I'm trying to do is make a few short clips with sony vegas movie studio HD V.9 so whoever can play it on whatever. Whether it be uploaded to youtube or played on someones coputer or dvd player. So.........does this mean I need to embed (?) the codecs when I am saving the project? How do I know which codecs to use. And I'm not sure how to do that anyway. I have some learnin to do!
Thanks again you guys............I will soon explain more step by step of what I have done thus far so you can get an idea if I've done things correctly. First, I must go play a gig!
Denster

[True Colors]

---

[True Colors]

Thank you poisondeathray and True Colors. What I'm trying to do is make a few short clips with sony vegas movie studio HD V.9 so whoever can play it on whatever. Whether it be uploaded to youtube or played on someones coputer or dvd player. So.........does this mean I need to embed (?) the codecs when I am saving the project? How do I know which codecs to use. And I'm not sure how to do that anyway. I have some learnin to do!
Thanks again you guys............I will soon explain more step by step of what I have done thus far so you can get an idea if I've done things correctly. First, I must go play a gig!
Denster

Do not worry about the codecs for now. That can be a bit on the complicated side and you can get by just fine right now without hassling with it.

When you get ready to save you files in Vegas pick the AVI file format. For simplicity sake, that will be the best for you by far. AVI is super universal and it can be opened with Windows Media Player and just about every other video player in the world. So pretty much any of your friends who have Microsoft Windows will be able to open your files and play them.

AVI is also fine for youtube. So you will be covered there.

As far as making your own DVD's....... that is a little different. If you want to put something on a DVD that someone will open on their computer then you can simply burn your file(s) onto a DVD and mail it to them.

However, if you want to make a DVD that will work in a regular DVD household player then you will need to author the DVD. You will need software for that. Check out DVD Styler. It's free.

TC

[Cornucopia]

Contrary to what was said above, DO WORRY about the codecs. And AVI is NOT universal. The most universal is probably MPEG1. And a well-installed WMP with the correct codecs and plugins installed, has no trouble playing MANY types of files.

You want to render your movie to a decent Mastering-quality format. And then, from there, make copies in formats that are appropriate for their intended audiences (DVD, Youtube, etc). DVD would be MPEG2 (with PCM/WAV or AC3 or maybe MP2 audio)-then have those authored; Youtube would be MP4 with AAC audio, or VP6/7/8 with MP3 audio. If you make an AVI file for youtube, it'll have to convert it AGAIN (with loss of quality), plus it may have difficulty with your choice of codec.

Tell us what you are currently choosing, and we can tell you if those are good choices or not, base on your assumptions of target/destination.

Scott

[True Colors]

This is a great board but sometimes people do try to make things overly complicated.

First of all, in terms of compatibility, the AVI is one of the most universal/compatible formats in existence. It is probably the most compatible, in fact. Do you know anyone with a computer that could not play an AVI file? I don't. Do you know of any video player which could not handle an AVI file? I don't. Sometimes simple is best. Especially for somebody who is trying to get started with something new.

Also, why should he worry about codecs at this point? He can accomplish every single thing he mentioned above even if he did not know the meaning of the word "codec." He wants to be able to share his videos with people who, in all likelihood, are not going to be able to hack their WMP and add codecs to it.

Suggestion........ the original poster here should start with something very basic and very simple. Just use AVI for now. After he gets rolling with that then he can expand his horizons a bit and start making other file types such as mpeg.

TC

[Cornucopia]

This is a great board but sometimes people do try to make things overly complicated.

First of all, in terms of compatibility, the AVI is one of the most universal/compatible formats in existence. It is probably the most compatible, in fact. Do you know anyone with a computer that could not play an AVI file? I don't.

Plenty! AVI is just the container. Codecs vary greatly and many people don't have the huge variety of codecs that might be available and that might have been used. And CODEC PACKS aren't the answer as they often screw up peoples' computers MORE. Plus, you have consumer settop products which often don't have AVI capability. And Macs have limited capability. There's the whole OpenDML or NOT variations, plus segmented, plus DV-Type1 vs. Type2...
Do you work in video? I DO, and there's lots of incompatibility out there that we have to deal with daily.

Do you know of any video player which could not handle an AVI file? I don't.

See above...

Sometimes simple is best. Especially for somebody who is trying to get started with something new.

MPEG1 isn't NEW, it's been around since 1991 and is VERY SIMPLE.

Also, why should he worry about codecs at this point? He can accomplish every single thing he mentioned above even if he did not know the meaning of the word "codec." He wants to be able to share his videos with people who, in all likelihood, are not going to be able to hack their WMP and add codecs to it.

I'm not advocating he add codecs right now, I'm just saying WMP isn't the complete washout you stated.

Suggestion........ the original poster here should start with something very basic and very simple. Just use AVI for now. After he gets rolling with that then he can expand his horizons a bit and start making other file types such as mpeg.

TC

You say the user wanted something basic & simple, but he's using Sony Vegas HD9. That expects a certain understanding of video, which he doesn't seem to have. If he's using Vegas, he ought to know what a codec is, otherwise using something like WMM.

But just saying "use AVI for now" still doesn't answer his question. WHICH AVI?

OP, let us know which avenues you plan on distributing your movie(s) and we can give you a MUCH BETTER list of output suggestions...

Scott

[True Colors]

I never said that AVI is 100% compatible with everything. I said that it is more universally compatible for computer users than any other format out there. I stand by that statement.

Also, I never said that mpeg is new. That is preposterous. In fact, that was a rather insulting thing for you to say.

I was saying that this person is new with all of this -- so therefore he should start with something simple. And in my opinion, AVI is the most simple right now for him to get started.

Mpeg is also simple too but it does present a problem which would not be nearly as much of a hassle as AVI. Namely, mpeg does not work with the standard Microsoft Windows Media Player that the typical person has. If he uses AVI then he can send his files to Microsoft Windows users who do not know anything whatsoever about codecs or the technical differences between video software players(which happens to be the majority of the american public sitting behind a computer, by the way).

As far as "which AVI"...... I said that he should use the AVI output which is built into his Vegas 9. Does Vegas 9 have more than one type of AVI output? If so, then perhaps you could educate us on avi1, avi2, avi3, or whatever the different types of AVI containers are in Vegas 9.

TC

[poisondeathray]

As far as "which AVI"...... I said that he should use the AVI output which is built into his Vegas 9. Does Vegas 9 have more than one type of AVI output? If so, then perhaps you could educate us on avi1, avi2, avi3, or whatever the different types of AVI containers are in Vegas 9.

That's the problem.

As mentioned earlier, "AVI" is just a container. It's what's inside that counts. I'm not your typical user, but for example, my vegas install has about 30-40 different options that can go into the AVI container. Vegas can access all your VFW-type system installed codecs, so there could be hundreds on your system. Giving directions for someone to use "AVI" is very non specific.

Decoding is an issue too; if you don't have that specific decoder for that specific video codec, it won't play. Even if you have it installed on your computer, doesn't mean others like friends and family have it installed. Just because a video is in an "AVI" container, doesn't necessarily mean a user has a suitable codec for decoding.

So, I still believe for those new to video should use an all purpose media player, such as VLC , KMplayer, etc... They can then learn about the differences between codecs etc... when they have time should they choose to learn about them

Cheers

[Gavino]

I never said that AVI is 100% compatible with everything. I said that it is more universally compatible for computer users than any other format out there.
...
If he uses AVI then he can send his files to Microsoft Windows users who do not know anything whatsoever about codecs or the technical differences between video software players

That's just not true at all. As poisondeathray and others have pointed out, AVI is just a container (how many times do you need to be told?), so compatibility depends on the codec used to encode the contents.

WMP relies on having the relevant codec installed in order to play an AVI file, but players like VLC have their own versions of a large range of codecs (still by no means universal).

[Cornucopia]

I never said that AVI is 100% compatible with everything. I said that it is more universally compatible for computer users than any other format out there. I stand by that statement.

Also, I never said that mpeg is new. That is preposterous. In fact, that was a rather insulting thing for you to say.

I was saying that this person is new with all of this -- so therefore he should start with something simple. And in my opinion, AVI is the most simple right now for him to get started.

Mpeg is also simple too but it does present a problem which would not be nearly as much of a hassle as AVI. Namely, mpeg does not work with the standard Microsoft Windows Media Player that the typical person has. If he uses AVI then he can send his files to Microsoft Windows users who do not know anything whatsoever about codecs or the technical differences between video software players(which happens to be the majority of the american public sitting behind a computer, by the way).

As far as "which AVI"...... I said that he should use the AVI output which is built into his Vegas 9. Does Vegas 9 have more than one type of AVI output? If so, then perhaps you could educate us on avi1, avi2, avi3, or whatever the different types of AVI containers are in Vegas 9.

TC

MPEG1 Can be played by both Macs and PCs from 1995 onward. This includes ALL versions of Windows Media Player, straight out of the box without any installs or anything (unless Vista/7 has recently changed things, but I doubt it). I, and many other video professionals, stand by that statement.
I have tested no less that 300 systems to make sure what they DO and DON'T accept, and ALL of them accept MPEG1. Have you done this kind of testing, or are you just shooting off your mouth based on an assumption?
AVI, straight out of the box, comes with only a VERY FEW codecs (Uncompressed, DV, Cinepak?, h.263?). After that, you need to add the ones you intend to use on a regular basis (Divx, Xvid, Lagarith, etc). This COMPLICATES things. Plus, it only works on that one PC, until the user adds that same type codec to their machine.
ALL installs of MPEG1 (the system stream/container) use ONLY MPEG1 (the video codec) and ALWAYS come with it.

However, MPEG1 is not as compressively efficient as newer formats.
If the OP intends to target modern Windows machines only, then the WMV container (with the stock-installed, STANDARD WMV9 video codec) is more consistent and universal than AVI. BECAUSE it exists with all Windows installations (excepting custom installations where the user chooses to remove Multimedia altogether). And it's playback is consistent within that platform. And, to turn your phrase upon itself: "If he uses WMV then he can send his files to Microsoft Windows users who do not know anything whatsoever about codecs or the technical differences between video software players(which happens to be the majority of the american public sitting behind a computer, by the way)."
For cross-platform Web use, Flash (SWF & FLV) is extremely common and the container gives you just a few options which are covered once you download and install Flash player. Of course, this normally forces playback with web pages, not as standalone.

Quicktime and AVI are common and "codec-agnostic" container formats, and that's one reason (their open usefulness) that makes them so common. But their use is fragmented because one installation may not have many, or even ANY, codecs in common with another installation. That is the reality that is contradicting your assumption.

Ok, so you want me to educate you on the kinds of variations of AVI that might be possible from within Vegas 9...

Well, I've got a copy of Vegas 6 on this computer (and 8 on another), and although I'm sure 9 has MORE options, those will do nicely as examples...

Just looking at the video (we'll skip the audio for now), the v6 options include:
1. MPEG1
2. MPEG2
3. RealMedia
4. Quicktime
5. AVI
6. WMV

for #1, Codec options is just MPEG1 (in MPEG1 and VCD profiles).
for #2, Codec options is just MPEG2 (in MPEG2, ATSC, SVCD, HVD, D-VHS profiles).
for #3, Codec options is just Realmedia9.
for #6, Codec options are WMV-v7, WMV-v8, WMV-v9, WMV-v9.1image, WMV-v9advanced, and WMV-v9screen.
for #4, Codec options are None(uncompressed), Animation, Video, Cinepak, Sorenson3, BMP, Component Video, Graphics, h.261, h.263, MJPEGA, MJPEGB, MPEG4, PhotoJPEG, PlanarRGB, PNG, TGA, TIFF, DV-PAL, DV/DVCPRO-NTSC - and that's only using the base list of codecs, more would be listed if supplementally installed.
for #5, Codec options are Uncompressed, Cinepak, Indeo-but NOT in Vista/7, Intel 4:2:0, Intel IYUV, h.261, h.263, Video1, DV-NTSC, DV-PAL, Sony YUV - and that's only using the base list of codecs, more would be listed if supplementally installed.

...

So, HOW TO CHOOSE?

Codecs can be categorized as "capture", "storage/mastering" and "distribution". These categories are based on the physical, quality, workflow and bitrate needs for those stages. Capture includes moderately lossy codecs like DV, HDV, AVCIntra. Storage/mastering includes lossless or slightly lossy codecs like Uncompressed, Lagarith, HUFFYUV, Cineform, Avid DnXHD. Maybe you could also put DV there. Distribution includes VERY LOSSY codecs like MPEG4, DivX, Xvid, MPEG1, MPEG2, AVC/h.264 and the old school Cinepak & Indeo.

While there's no "codec police", it would be foolish to use a capture codec like DV in a final distribution (way too large file). It would also be just as foolish to use a distribution codec for storage/mastering (way too much quality loss accumulation).

This DOES require a bit of knowledge on the proper choice of and use of codecs. You can get some of that here, but you should also read the manual that came with the program (whether paper or pdf). Or get a book about it. Otherwise, it's just russian roulette.

Scott

EDIT: I didn't even touch on DV-AVI Type1 (single IVAS stream) versus DV-AVI Type2 (Video+Audio, and Audio only streams), MSDV vs. CDVC fourcc codes of DV, Original AVI vs. OpenDML AVI, Monolithic files vs. Segmented vs. Canopus-segmented files, other fourcc anomalies, etc. Need I say more?

[True Colors]

I'll make one more post on this topic, and then after that, you guys can have this discussion all to yourselves

I am fully aware that avi is a container. I am also aware the other 101 aspects of this discussion, such as the difference between a container and the content inside of it. I do agree that the content is generally more important than the container.

However, in this particular case, the container does matter. If a user cannot get the container to open then it won't matter what type of coding is inside of it.

Most common users have Microsoft Windows. Most of them expect the applications found native inside Windows to do everything for them. If the original poster picks a non-AVI container then there is a good chance that his friends won't even be able to open the container in the first place. As a matter of fact, that is where the original poster got stuck himself.

I admit, it's been a few years since I used Vegas. Last I recall if you selected AVI as your output file then the default codec used by Vegas was one of the bread and butter varieties which is compatible with WMP. But perhaps now things are different. Maybe if you select AVI as your container then Vegas will use some crazy codec which is not compatible with WMP. If that is the case then my earlier statement was in error. But that was not my own personal experience with Vegas.

TC