Home Movies Taking Huge Amounts of Hard Drive Space - Help!

[scormodo]

I have a lot of home movies which I had previously imported onto my PC. They are in the AVI format and take HUGE amounts of space. For example, I have one video which is about 2 hours long and is 24GB!

I have also encountered problems playing these videos through media streaming devices such as an XBOX because the files are not in a "supported format".

Is there a way to convert these videos to a format that takes up less space without losing quality? What is the "norm"?

Here's the MediaInfo from one of the files:
Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 24.2 GiB
Duration : 2h 0mn
Overall bit rate : 28.9 Mbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : Digital Video
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:1:1
Scan type : Interlaced
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.360
Stream size : 24.1 GiB (100%)

Audio
ID : 0-0
Format : PCM
Muxing mode : DV
Muxing mode, more info : Muxed in Video #1
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 1 536 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Resolution : 16 bits
Stream size : 0.00 Byte (0%)

[Baldrick]

DV-Video is huge. Convert to a format that is better compressed but still very good quality, like to mp4 with h264 video using for example Handbrake or StaxRip. But you will lose quality so it would be good to store the original if it's really important video.

[lowellriggsiam]

If you have divx installed try encoding them using virtualdub (there is a bit of a learning curve) or divx converter (time consuming, but good quality). Others like handbrake do well, but again there is a learning curve.

[scormodo]

Just as a quick test, using Adobe Premiere Elements, I took the AVI and did nothing to it other than save it in the MPG format. The file size dropped from 24GB to 5GB! Here is the Mediainfo for the new file:

Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 5.29 GiB
Duration : 2h 0mn
Overall bit rate : 6 306 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 864 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.566
Stream size : 4.92 GiB (93%)

Audio
ID : 128 (0x80)
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 192 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Channel positions : L R
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Video delay : -67ms
Stream size : 165 MiB (3%)


I do not notice much quality loss... should I? Also, what Codec is the newly converted file in now? Mediainfo is not providing me with that information.

[guns1inger]

Mpeg-2 - effectively DVD video. H264 (AVC) would have given you similar quality at smaller file sizes, so it might be worth the eperiment of converting some footage to a couple of different formats and comparing the output.

[edDV]

Hard drives are cheap. Any of the conversions above will degrade the quality of your DV files. As HDTV sets improve, you will want that quality for future viewing. The time required to re-encode will be tens of hours where a 500GB hard drive goes for $49.

Deinterlace is especially destructive to home recordings. Interlace 720x480i MPeg2 at >8Mb/s is the next best format.

[scormodo]

So EDDV what you're saying is that my original file in AVI is the best quality and I should leave it alone. I don't necessarily disagree with you but can you tell me why it is that so far 2 media streamers I have tried including the Xbox, will not play the AVI files?

The other streamer I've used is the one that comes with Fios. Their site indicates that it supports AVI but only using one of the following codecs:
Supported Video Codecs for AVI & MP4 files are:
MJPG, MPG, WMV, XVID, DIVX, FLV1, H264, M4S2, VP6F,
MP42


Does an AVI even have a codec? I thought AVI was an uncompressed file? What would I need to do to the file to make it compatible with streamers?
Yet, my AVI files won't even show up on the library.

[redwudz]

AVI is just the name of the container, not a format or a codec. Xvid, DV, Divx, H.264, could all be called AVI. Uncompressed AVI type files can be huge, 50GB or more per hour. And to handle them you would need a very fast system with very fast drives, usually a RAID system.

DV-AVI is about 13GB per hour. You should be able to store 60 - 70 hours of that on a 1TB hard drive. Or convert it to high bitrate MPEG-2 and you should be able to reduce the size a fair amount with not much quality loss. You can try a sample encode of a short file and see if the XBox can play it. Very few hardware players play back DV.

[OldMan64]

"what you're saying is that my original file in AVI is the best quality and I should leave it alone. I don't necessarily disagree with you but can you tell me why it is that so far 2 media streamers I have tried including the Xbox, will not play the AVI files?"
I noticed in the first post that the file is identified
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
I am curious as to how this file was imported? That seems like an unusually high bit rate for a source of that type. If these are imported from a home video camera, then by all means the bit rate is too high. I am no expert but unless this is a HD source, then the file size could be reduced to a more manageable bit rate.

[Gavino]

I noticed in the first post that the file is identified
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
I am curious as to how this file was imported? That seems like an unusually high bit rate for a source of that type.

The codec was also identified as DV (Digital Video), and the bit rate corresponds to that.

[edDV]

So EDDV what you're saying is that my original file in AVI is the best quality and I should leave it alone. I don't necessarily disagree with you but can you tell me why it is that so far 2 media streamers I have tried including the Xbox, will not play the AVI files?

Yes the original will retain top quality.

This is especially important for your first file which is camcorder DV format. That was the file I was responding to. You can re-encode for lower quality display in media players (streamers) but the original file should be retained as an archive for the future. DV format is best for future editing or format conversion.

Your second file is a good conversion in DVD spec MPeg2. This will be playable in most media players.

[jagabo]

So EDDV what you're saying is that my original file in AVI is the best quality and I should leave it alone. I don't necessarily disagree with you but can you tell me why it is that so far 2 media streamers I have tried including the Xbox, will not play the AVI files?

Because your streamers don't support DV AVI. Few (none?) do.

[edDV]

DV is a good editing/archive format.

MPeg2 480i (DVD spec*) is the best DV source playback format for now.


* 720x480i/29.97, >8000 kbps, bottom field first.

[scormodo]

Okay, so what this newbie has learned so far (I think) is the following, please correct any inaccuracies:

1. The video I import from my Mini-DV SD camera should remain in it's virgin AVI format. As originally posted the MediaInfo from this file is as follows:

Format : AVI
Format/Info : Audio Video Interleave
Format profile : OpenDML
File size : 24.2 GiB
Duration : 2h 0mn
Overall bit rate : 28.9 Mbps

Video
ID : 0
Format : Digital Video
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 24.4 Mbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:1:1
Scan type : Interlaced
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 2.360
Stream size : 24.1 GiB (100%)


2. I should save the above version of the video for potential future editing and better codecs in future.

3. I should re-encode this imported video into another format/codec for streaming purposes.

4. The MediaInfo from the second file I posted, from when I converted the video using Adobe Premiere, is one of the better conversions available:
Format : MPEG-PS
File size : 5.29 GiB
Duration : 2h 0mn
Overall bit rate : 6 306 Kbps

Video
ID : 224 (0xE0)
Format : MPEG Video
Format version : Version 2
Format profile : Main@Main
Format settings, BVOP : Yes
Format settings, Matrix : Default
Duration : 2h 0mn
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 5 864 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 8 000 Kbps
Width : 720 pixels
Height : 480 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 4:3
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Standard : NTSC
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Interlaced
Scan order : Bottom Field First
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.566
Stream size : 4.92 GiB (93%)



Am I correct so far or I am I off base?

[jagabo]

Yes to all four points.

[scormodo]

Great!

Wow, you guys are awesome for willing to take your time just to help me out. It is greatly appreciated.

Is Premiere Elements program I've been using a decent option? The conversion was relatively quick but I thought I'd ask you guys anyhow just to be sure.

Also, can you tell me or point me to a link that explains the jargon... what are the factors that go into the quality and size of a video? For example, the video after I converted it was significantly smaller than the original yet I did not notice too much of a loss in quality.

[edDV]

Yes on all four but if you have a quality HDTV, you may want a higher bit rate for the MPeg2 conversion (e.g. 8000 to 9500 kbps for video).

[edDV]

Great!

Wow, you guys are awesome for willing to take your time just to help me out. It is greatly appreciated.

Is Premiere Elements program I've been using a decent option? The conversion was relatively quick but I thought I'd ask you guys anyhow just to be sure.

Also, can you tell me or point me to a link that explains the jargon... what are the factors that go into the quality and size of a video? For example, the video after I converted it was significantly smaller than the original yet I did not notice too much of a loss in quality.

Elements is good for an under $100 program. The quality of the conversion varies by the tech in the TV and the opinion of the viewer.

We can point you for specific questions. The main variables are resolution, interlace vs. progressive and bit rate.

[jagabo]

You can also use the free HcEnc and HcGUI for high quality MPEG 2 encoding. You'll have to install AviSynth and learn the very basics of creating an AviSynth script. You'll probably want to do your editing elsewhere though.

[scormodo]

Yes on all four but if you have a quality HDTV, you may want a higher bit rate for the MPeg2 conversion (e.g. 8000 to 9500 kbps for video).

What does bit rate mean? Do?

[edDV]

Bit rate relates to the amount of compression. The lower the bitrate, the higher the compression and usually the lower the video quality.

But for camcorder video, the quality hit is greater if you deinterlace with the goal of greater compression.

[deadrats]

Yes on all four but if you have a quality HDTV, you may want a higher bit rate for the MPeg2 conversion (e.g. 8000 to 9500 kbps for video).

What does bit rate mean? Do?

"bit rate" literally means how many bits per unit time are used to describe any given length of your data stream, so if you have a file that has a video bit rate of 8000 k(ilo)b(its)p(er)s(econd), what is actually being said about the video portion of the file is that if you took a 1 second segment of said file it would be composed of 8000 kilo bits or 8000x1000 bits or 8,000,000 bits or to put it another equivalent way, you are using 8 million bits to describe that 1 second of video.

from the above you can generalize a principle that for any given data stream the higher the bit rate the higher the quality because the more bits you use to describe any given segment of video the more accurate and detailed that description will be.

there is a practical limit to that rule however and the limit is that once you reach the point where you describe the data field as accurately as possible then increasing the bit rate can't possibly increase the quality any more.

for your purposes, the advice you have received that says back up your original, preferably to an external hdd, or even a large usb stick, and then create a high quality dvd compliant mpeg-2 is most certainly the way to go, perhaps the only slight change i might make is to advise you to create a blu-ray compliant mpeg-2, only because it will allow you to use higher bit rates than dvd spec mpeg-2 and it will be more future proof, but that's just my preference.

[scormodo]

When you guys mention how cheap hard drives are these days, are storing your original virgin footage on internal hard drives and if so, once they're filled to capacity, do you remove them from the computer?

[edDV]

When you guys mention how cheap hard drives are these days, are storing your original virgin footage on internal hard drives and if so, once they're filled to capacity, do you remove them from the computer?

Yes, external drives are the first step. These days you can buy external 1TB USB2 drives for around $100 if you shop.
http://www.google.com/products/catalog?hl=en&source=hp&q=wester+digital+external+hard+...wBA#ps-sellers

Beyond that, NAS (network attached storage) and home servers can hold multiple drives on a network.

[jagabo]

I use removable drive bays like this:

http://www.amazon.com/Kingwin-KF-1000-BK-Storage-adapter-black/dp/B00126U0VA/

And external USB and eSATA drives.

[scormodo]

Thanks guys. One last(?) question... I had previously been using Windows Movie Maker to capture/import my Mini-Dv and Hi-8 movies... can you recommend a better software for my purposes? If so, any specific import parameters/specifications I should be concerned about?

[edDV]

Windows Movie Maker captures DV OK but tries to trap you into converting to wmv. Avoid wmv if the goal is DVD. It is possible to cut and export DV from WMM if you go to export "Other" then DV-AVI. Another disadvantage of WMM is all processing is done square pixel 640x480 rather than 720x480 so there is horizontal resolution loss.

A better DV capture program is WinDV. Most other DV edit programs (e.g. Premiere Elements, Vegas, etc.) process 720x480 (720x576 PAL).

[scormodo]

Duh... I already have Premiere Elements... I guess I should just use that. Looks like I am losing my mind at an early age.

[scormodo]

Hey guys, after I import a video, is there a program out there that can quickly check it to make sure that there were are no errors in the file?

I just happened to play back on of my videos that I just imported and parts of it were stuttering and jerking.

[edDV]

How did you capture? IEEE-1394 to DV-AVI? WinDV will report lost frames while capturing.

Are you capturing to a second drive? Not the OS drive?

Is there adequate free disk space?

Did you defragment the drive?