Download SVCD Cleaner settings!

[rein020b]

I've finally gotten around to posting my Cleaner 5 (w/MPEG Charger) SVCD settings on the internet.

Specifically, the download URL is:
http://members.home.net/babymac/svcd/cleaner_svcd.sit

If you want to see my SVCD creation tutorial go here:
http://members.home.net/babymac/
And be sure to select "SVCD" from the pop-up menu.

In order to use my settings file, just unstuff the file and then drag it to your "Cleaner Settings/MPEG" folder. As it says on my page, you will probably want to adjust the bit rates depending on the length of your project.

Good luck!
CTP

[major]

hi, this is very useful but i guess that SVCDs you're making are not compliant, because of the mac encoding step.

I tried with a 3 seconds video encoded in Cleaner 5 w/ Charger w/ your template and the resulting SVCD when read on a Pioneer DVD Player gives a screen splitted in two with the image repeating twice, with colored blocks in the lower right hand corner of the screen. Maybe this works with your DVD player, but I don't think it's compliant if it doesn't work on Pioneer.

That image-split bug has been reported many times, including on PC, as the result of a not fully compliant encoding. An elementary MPG2 stream encoded for SVCD is not exactly the same as the average MPG2 stream as it contain additional user data blocks.

It's maybe possible that TMPGEnc multiplexer could add these blocks, but I suspect not (simply because the test I've done doesnt work on Pioneer; I was using TMPGEnc 12a to mux).

For the moment the very only SVCDs working on my Pioneer are those which are also encoded with TMPGenc 12a and standard SVCD template.

I suggest if you can, to build a 3 seconds .bin/.cue image encoded with Cleaner 5 and working on your DVD player and to post it on your site so I will test on my player.

[nimbus]

@major :

Hi,
just read your answer.

I do have the exact same problem with cleaner and a Pioneer 525. I tried burnign at different speeds and using Nero 5 as well as Toast 5.0.1 --> same results.

Does all this mean that there is no way to encode to a compliant SVCD with Cleaner (with MPEG charger) ?

If yes can I also use the latest version of TMPGenc (12i) or does it have to be 12a ?

Do you also happen to know to know the limits of the Pioneer players (maximum resolution and bitrate) ? I've tried to make XVCD's and XSVCD's with Cleaner but was rather unsuccessfull as the results were either split-screen, choppy, blocky, etc.

I do appreciate any help with this,
nimbus

[major]

Yes, I guess the best (and currently the only at my knowledge) solution is to use TMPGEnc. I use v. 12a which is very strong and stable version. Successive versions led to less successful encoding. I dont know about 12i but I know that 12a rocks. You can easily find sites carrying all the versions for download.

The bitrate limit of Pioneer 525 is 2500 kbs

Good luck

[dickiedee]

I can confirm the problems with Cleaner.
I tried to make a SVCD using cleaner to encode. Then I used TMPGENC (VPC) to multiplex the streams. I burnt it with NERO 5 (VPC) on my SCSI burner. When I played it on a Pioneer DVD player it had a splitted image. I reallly hope someone finds a simple solution to make this work, because encoding with TMPENC under control of VPC is not a option, I have to share my Mac with my family and cannot wait for days to finish a movie.

[catalano]

I just tried the Cleaner template and had the same problem as others with the split screen. I'm using a Pioneer 434. I contacted the author but his SVCDs work fine with this template. Has anyone been able to modify this template in order to get it to work properly? Or if not does someone have some suggested settings for Cleaner that produce decent results?

Thanks,
Chris

[major]

Cleaner 5 can't encode fully compliant SVCDs. You must switch to TMPGenc.

[catalano]

Major,

Hi, I guess I'm a bit confused. Isn't mpeg2 a standard format? And shouldn't the files produced by a commercial application like Cleaner be compliant? It's dissapointing because even though the image from the Cleaner template was split, you could see that the quality, in terms of detail and color, were better than that produced by TMPGenc.

Thanks,
Chris

[major]

The SVCD specification requires that MPG2 files for use with SVCD should include special user data blocks every intra frame of the video stream (to be added at encoding or muxing step)

To date and to my knowledge, no Mac encoder is able to handle that. So the better choice is still TMPGenc which is often rated as the best overall quality software encoder available on PC. Too bad its developer has decided not to port it to other platforms!

[catalano]

Hi Major,

I understand what you're saying. However, I was able to create a Cleaner Template that apparently works. It looks like you're exactly right about the user data blocks. I'm using TSCV to generate my .bin/.que files and during the building phase I see information stating that TSCV is going to 'pad' the file. Then there's usually something about x number of zero bytes added, or something like that. But the end result is that I can take the .bin and use Fireburner to 'chunk' it and then burn the tracks with Toast 5.

If you'd like to take a look at the template, it's here: http://homepage.mac.com/cjcatalano/

I think one of the reasons that the first guy's template didn't work is because he has the size at 480x480. It seems that if Cleaner does the resizing, the final video has the 'split screen' problem. But it seems that if the size is left at 720x480 (matching my DV footage size) then the results are fine.

I'd still like to find a template for TMPGenc that produces decent MPEG2 files. The template included is not as good as Cleaner, but Cleaner does take a loooonnnnnng time.

Interested in your thoughts...

-Chris

[major]

You can eventually get the Cleaner-encoded MPG work with some DVD players and/or in some sizes or settings, but I guess it will not be a strictly compliant SVCD. If you make it for your personal viewing and don't plan to distribute it to other people, that could be just fine of course.

About TMPGenc settings, try to start with the standard SVCD template (PAL is best if your TV supports it), then load the "Unlock" template to allow modifications, then adjust key variables in the Settings window. You may want to set "Motion search precision" to "High quality", then adjust the rate control mode to CBR or VBR (that's the better one, but slowest) and the datarate (eg 2400 kbs for CBR, 2500 max, 2200 average for VBR). Check also the advanced tab and the filters. Your source format and quality will heavily affect your preferred settings. Ie. if your source comes from an analog tape you will need the VirtualDub TemporalCleaner filter. If your source is blurry then use the Edge Enhancer included in TMPGenc.

You could use a 10 seconds video clip with some complex and detailed footage, preferably coming from a quality source like a DVD, as well as an alternate clip in DV format, and encode them in many ways. Also check here for a sample clip and detailed comparison between popular encoders http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm

[catalano]

Hi Major,

Yep, you're right about it not being a 'strictly compliant SVCD'. I brought one of the test discs that work on my Pioneer over to my parents house and their Phillips 601 had a problem playing the clips that were encoded with Cleaner. They were all blocky and jumpy. Their player also wouldn't hold on the menu screen, it would start playing the first video after about 5 seconds. But that's something I really can't spend time troubleshooting right now.

I'll play around with the TMPGenc settings some more. By any chance do you have a good template for use with DV files for NTSC? More specifically what I'm doing is importing my DV footage from my camcorder, editing in Premiere (Mac) and exporting the finished movie. Those finished movie files are what I'm encoding. So if you have a template that you feel produces very good quality for my situation, I would definately be interested in trying it.

Thanks,
Chris

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-12-05 14:35:25, major wrote:
You can eventually get the Cleaner-encoded MPG work with some DVD players and/or in some sizes or settings, but I guess it will not be a strictly compliant SVCD. If you make it for your personal viewing and don't plan to distribute it to other people, that could be just fine of course.

About TMPGenc settings, try to start with the standard SVCD template (PAL is best if your TV supports it), then load the "Unlock" template to allow modifications, then adjust key variables in the Settings window. You may want to set "Motion search precision" to "High quality", then adjust the rate control mode to CBR or VBR (that's the better one, but slowest) and the datarate (eg 2400 kbs for CBR, 2500 max, 2200 average for VBR). Check also the advanced tab and the filters. Your source format and quality will heavily affect your preferred settings. Ie. if your source comes from an analog tape you will need the VirtualDub TemporalCleaner filter. If your source is blurry then use the Edge Enhancer included in TMPGenc.

You could use a 10 seconds video clip with some complex and detailed footage, preferably coming from a quality source like a DVD, as well as an alternate clip in DV format, and encode them in many ways. Also check here for a sample clip and detailed comparison between popular encoders http://www.tecoltd.com/enctest/enctest.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[nimbus]

Hello all,

Does anybody have experience with the Cleaner update (5.1.1) ? Is it finally possible to produce compliant SVCD's ?

I sure hope this will one day be possible ....

nimbus

[major]

It is possible if you use Astarte M-Pack in OS9 to encode and then mux with a SVCD muxer like the TMPGEnc Tools "Multiplex" (VBR SVCD option) or the CLI mplex command under OSX. Check here for a good guide.