How to edit 60p video without transcoding?

[Persistence]

Various new digicams and videocams shoot 60p video, some of it real and some of it "bobbed" 30p. One of the most significant versions is 1280x720 60p in AVCHD / h.264, as offerred on some Panasonic models, including the GH1. Various Kodak, Sanyo, and other brands offer similar 60p options in MP4 or MPEG4.

But how to edit the stuff? Trancoding to something in 60i or 30p would seem to defeat the purpose, take time, and cause quality loss. Are there any consumer editing packages that support 60p in native state? Can they also export the content to a format that preserves the 60p, whether to file or Blu-Ray disc? Will the discs play on most dedicated Blu-Ray players? Alternatively, if the files are uploaded to Vimeo, do the revert to 30p?

Pinnacle Studio 12.1 definitely does not support 60p as-is. Cyberlink PowerDirector does not either, according to forum entries. ArcSoft Media Impression comes bundled with the Kodak Zx1 pocketcam, but forum entries give little assurance about the results.

Granted, any sort of AVCHD takes a lot of CPU / GPU punch. The question here is whether any existing full-line editing package will support 60p video.

I take for granted that there might be some transcode workaround, but would first like to know if that step can be avoided. Otherwise, the whole concept of 60p becomes next to useless. In principle, it should be good for action or pan shots that might otherwise appear jerky or suffer the "rolling shutter" problem. It should also be superior if one wants to slow down fast action video.

Thanks for any guidance or recommendations.

[poisondeathray]

At this point you can only cut & paste, not true full editing capabilities without re-encoding. And even then, you can only cut on keyframes, and most programs are not completely stable. None of the paid programs (full NLE's) will allow pass though (they all re-encode), but some will accept 720p60 e.g. Vegas Pro 8+/9, Premiere CS4. Videoredo has been rumored to be working on a h.264 version which would only re-encode the few frames around the GOP cut site which would be perfect... (but the persistent rumor has been going on for a few years LOL so I wouldn't hold my breath....)

For simple cut/trim editing now, you can try h264ts_cutter (free), tsmuxer (free), or tspe

[Persistence]

If you think Vegas or Premier recode, might that mean that they also throttle-down the 60p to 30p?

Which transcode format would have the best quality or most benign outcome? Is HDV MPEG2 1440x1080 60i at 25 mbps a tolerable proxy? Or might this mangle the 1280x720 60p by dropping frames or bobbing pixels?

[poisondeathray]

If you think Vegas or Premier recode, might that mean that they also throttle-down the 60p to 30p?

Which transcode format would have the best quality or most benign outcome? Is HDV MPEG2 1440x1080 60i at 25 mbps a tolerable proxy? Or might this mangle the 1280x720 60p by dropping frames or bobbing pixels?

I know Vegas and Premiere re-encode, not just think. There is no pass-through. Frame accurate lossless non-destructive editing of h.264 is still a dream and we are not any closer it seems.

If you set the project settings to 720p60, and set the encoding settings to 720p60, it will stay 720p60. There is no preset for this, but you make a project preset

Best quality would be using h.264, not MPEG2. You need about 1.4-1.5x the bitrate if you were to use MPEG2 for similar quality. This is not feasible if you were planning on DVD5/9 media (unless your videos are very very short). If this was just for PC or HTPC, MPEG2 at high bitrate would be fine, and a lot faster to encode, but would take 1.4-1.5x as much space for the same quality.

If you shot in 720p60, the best idea would be to keep 720p60. You should strive to keep the same format/characteristics. When you say proxy, please clarify. Do you mean proxy for editing? Because neither Premiere Pro or Vegas Pro directly support this (there are workarounds)