FreesatHD - does it need special LnB...?

[snadge]

My dad has FreesatHD running of his standard SKY dish..
#
he lives in Scotland near Isle Of Skye (far west) and doesnt get ITV-HD , BBC-HD is on though

A) Does FreesatHD require a special HD LnB to work properley (get HD Channles)..?
B) Is it because he lives in scotland he doesnt get ITV-HD?

thanks

[mh2360]

I use my Grundig Freesat HD box with a standard Sky dish and get both BBC and ITV HD with no problems. I think it might be his location that stops him getting ITV HD, the workaround is to let the box think he lives "further south" when he enters his postcode.

[SatStorm]

No. Any "Universal" type LNB does the work.

[ntscuser]

No. Any "Universal" type LNB does the work.

This is splitting hairs but I'm told Sky's eliptical mini-dish requires a special matching LNB. It is the same for Freesat and BSkyB though. Also the last time I checked the schedule there were hardly any broadcasts on ITV-HD which may have something to do with the lack of reception?

[mh2360]

According to this...

http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=help.Question&id=2588

...ITV HD is only available in England and Wales.

Giving your HD box an English or Welsh postcode should solve the problem, but of course the you will lose any local programming in favor of the area you chose.

You really aren't missing that much TBH, the odd sunday evening movie and a few second rate TV series, it is ITV after all...

[SatStorm]

ITV HD currently only testing on satellite, and when it broadcasts, it doesn't do it in on standard DVB S2, so most satellite receivers can't show this channel at all.

The DVB S2 - HDTV channels that bradcast now on Astra 2 satellites can always be found here:
http://www.lyngsat.com/hd/28east.html

Regarding the LNB, any type Universal LNB for band KU for an offset dish, produced the last decade, does the job. There is no such thing as HD LNB. Some indeed Label some LNB's as "HD Ready", or "For HD reception", etc. Simply marketing.

[snadge]

so what does that mean?
ITV HD is doesnt actually play anything and is just a TEST CHANNEL? - crap that - why advertise it as so....
and you need a special reciever to get it?

Imagine my dads disapointment when he gets foxsat freesatHD to find that
A) he cant ITV HD
B) BBC HD only broadcasts from 8pm-12midnight

[sunderland]

you just need the standard lnb that sky give you but make sure you press that red button when it tells you to switch over to hd-itv,

[Richard_G]

so what does that mean?
ITV HD is doesnt actually play anything and is just a TEST CHANNEL? - crap that - why advertise it as so....
and you need a special reciever to get it?

Imagine my dads disapointment when he gets foxsat freesatHD to find that
A) he cant ITV HD
B) BBC HD only broadcasts from 8pm-12midnight

No, it isn't a test channel but it does need a special receiver. The Humax Foxsat HD is a special receiver and will get all of the HD programmes that are broadcast on Freesat. Due to the lack of HD programmes, BBC HD is only in the evenings and the presence of ITV HD makes itself known by coming up with the press red button announcement when a programme is available in HD. ITV tend to produce all sports events in HD now as well as some other content, but there's not a lot of point in broadcasting SD content in HD.

The other problem may be connected with the reduced signal strength the further north you go. A standard Sky dish will probably give marginal signal levels, ideally he wants something like a 90cm dish.

[SatStorm]

It is a test channel and it is not a standard DVB S2 channel.
And it doesn't broadcast 24H

And actually, they are plenty ITV HD "channels":
All of them, broadcast from Eurobird 1 fixed beam and the frequencies usually are:
11.426 H 27500 QPSK FEC 2/3
11.224 V, 27500, 2/3
11.261 H, 27500, 2/3

Regarding who can watch this channel, well.... Most DVB /S2 receivers are not capable to lock signal. But, there are exceptions:

With a SkyStar HD2 PC card you can watch it. Cheapest way,needs computer.

A Vantage 7100S HD receiver (and clones) can screen it.

A Dreambox 800 with a plug in and manually inserting the Video PIDs also is capable to screen it.

The last month, the HD ITV Services can be found on 11426H, DVB-S (QPSK) - 27500 2/3 - NID:59 - TID:2315, Video Pid: 3401, Audio PID: 3402, PMT:3400, PCR:3401)

Technically speaking, ITV HD is not a "true" channel but a High Definition service of the standard definition ITV 1 channel.

[Richard_G]

You would be correct if talking about general ITV HD transmissions on various other satellites, but we're not. We're talking about the Freesat service where ITV broadcast in HD when they have something that originated in HD. See here http://www.freesat.co.uk/index.php?page=hd.Main

[SatStorm]

Richard_G, I know very well what I'm talking about. I can watch this ITV service here in Hellas - when it broadcasts - with a Dreambox 800 and also a SkyStar 2HD card with progdvb. It is a free to air satellite service, I just have to put manually the Video Pid and the PCR to watch it (it doesn't load on automatic scan).

The so called "ITV HD", at the time being and strictly technically speaking, is not a true satellite channel. It is a service linked to ITV 1. That's why you have to press the "Red" button or you have to get a "special" freesat box, to watch it.
And the truth is that this "freesat" box, is nothing more than a DVB S2 satellite receiver with adjusted firmware. And this firmware is easily emulated by many Linux based DVB S2 satellite receivers like the Duolab HD one, AB IP box, Vantage, On lien, Sab, Dreambox, e-net, Kathrein HD, etc.. (practically all the linux based DVB S2 receivers) and a couple of DVB PC cards.

ITV markets this service as "Channel". And on the top of that, they call it a "Special channel that needs a special freesat receiver" to watch it.
Don't get tricked by that! It is a simply marketing trick, so to control the British market and sell you "authorized" receivers.

Anyway: ITV HD is not a true channel - at the time being - and that is a technical fact. If you wish to call it a special HD channel as the marketing tries to teach you there, it's not a big deal. The only downside on this, is gonna be that eventually, you won't gonna follow the technical terms of the rest Europeans. We already have this problem with the Americans! For example, the average American call the Free to Air channels (FTA) with the term "On the Air (OTA)". Here in Europe, "On the Air" means automatic firmware update through satellite. You see the terminology conflict here?

Anyway, terminology conflicts always existed between N. Americans, British and Europeans. One more here, who really cares...

[ntscuser]

Freesat doesn't yet use DVB-S2

The main difference between a Freesat-branded and regular free-to-air receiver is the Electronic Programme Guide.

[SatStorm]

You can't call it a DVB S channel either. It is too simplified to say that the main difference is only the EPG. If it was only this, the DVB S2 receivers could show it, by just inserting the PIDs. But only few does.

On the other hand, the way it broadcasts follows the DVB S standard regarding Symbol Rate / FEC and modulation. But it doesn't synchronize Video/Audio using the DVB S standards. That's why the simply DVB S receivers can only get the audio same way the DVB S2 receivers do.

Somehow all this reminds me those DVB mpeg 1.5 transmissions we use to have 14 years ago.

[Richard_G]

Does any of this actually matter (except to the odd geek way out of the intended service area)? Whether the standard used is DVBS, DVBS2, a bastardised version of either or something completely unique is totally irrelevent. It is a service intended for reception in the UK, suitable receivers are readily available, it works and the picture quality is superb. A parallel can be drawn with digital trunked radio. The ETSI standard for TETRA was ratified but that doesn't mean to say that the competing TETRAPOL doesn't work, it is just working to a non-ratified standard.

The current competition to Freesat is Sky+HD (which is plummetting in price as it is losing a huge market share to Freesat, now down to £25 in Currys), which incorporates a DVR so requires the use of a dual LNB. If you don't need the DVR, you can use a standard Sky dish and LNB.

Any comparison with the US is also irrelevent. They have always gone their own way with everything (NTSC when the rest of the world went with PAL, CDMA mobile phones when the rest of the world went with GSM, 110 volt electricity supplies, etc) but it doesn't matter. Nobody in the US is going to try to watch Freesat and nobody here is going to try to watch their satellite TV. As for differences in terminology, are you surprised? They can't even spell colour properly on the other side of the Atlantic!

[SatStorm]

Well, it is not so simply you know...
Let me try to give you an example:

When you, the British, come to Greece as tourists, you demand to watch football, daily soap and stuff from your channels, on the Pubs, Bars, Hotels, etc, you attending. You choose where to go, based on those services and AFAIK, the same it happens and when you go to Spain for tourism (or anywhere actually...).
Does the sign "Sky Available" reminds you something?

So, ITV HD it may be intended only inside the UK, but you British people don't realize that and you demand it outside the UK too. So, we need to find ways, to provide it to you. And we do. So, little things like those now by ITV, only bring us trouble. A trouble you don't even bother to understand. You just demand it. And since the costumer is always right, we have no choice.

Don't mention that we are all European Union, so we are one country. British, French and Italians, seems to have a greater difficulty to realize that, but it is true.

I was able to learn about UK, by simply watching satellite television from your country. Same way I did with italians, frenchs, germans, latinos, etc. I bet some British with European spirit inside them, may try to do the same, with our channels this time.

So it is not like the Americans in this case. There are many Europeans out there, which they gonna try to watch freesat. Why? Because this is the easiest way to learn about you. Also, it helps on studying English. British must start doing this with other languages than their own one, one day, too.

Anyway, the bottom line is that we need the less possible things to separate us. Terminology conflicts are among those little things that may look irrelevant, but also manage to separate us.

A little bit off topic now, but it has something to do with this post somehow.

Do you remember MTV Europe? There was a time, back in the late 80s and most of the 90s, which a european generation gathered each day to watch the same paneuropean programs. A satellite channel. We all knew the European top 20, the Party Zone, the 120 min, and each weekend we had a special from one European country. We use to tape videoclips from those "other" countries, and surprisingly, it wasn't that different.
Around 1997, they split MTV Europe and that was gone. Now the British would have their own channel, so the Germans and the Italians. Later, during the 00s, almost all countries have their own MTV Channel.
But I bet, that you there in Britain know less current Italian, German, Greeks, etc songs those days, than you did back in the 90s, when we all had one channel. And your music industry now suffers more than all the others inside the European Union. You now how all that started? With a simply irrelevant thing. But it wasn't so irrelevant after all...

All people need to learn the same alphabet to write in English.
We try hard to learn it. So, we don't need terminology conflicts inside the English language. The less, the better.

[ntscuser]

The current competition to Freesat is Sky+HD (which is plummetting in price as it is losing a huge market share to Freesat, now down to £25 in Currys)

You can't buy a Freesat HD receiver for £25 from Currys or anywhere else. The cheapest they have is £117. A Freesat HD box with PVR is £300 if you can find one. They are currently sold out almost everywhere. Freesat's SD receivers suck and at present there is no recordable version.

Any comparison with the US is also irrelevent. They have always gone their own way with everything (NTSC when the rest of the world went with PAL

There was no such thing as PAL when the USA adopted color transmissions and wouldn't be for another ten years. Also, virtually the whole of the French speaking world (and others) adopted SeCAM rather than PAL.

[Richard_G]

Does the sign "Sky Available" reminds you something?

To me yes, it means it's somwhere to avoid like the plague. I go to a foreign country to learn about their language and culture, not to try to recreate Britain in a warmer climate. I also deliberately avoid places with a sign that says, "English Spoken" too!

Do you remember MTV Europe? There was a time, back in the late 80s and most of the 90s, which a european generation gathered each day to watch the same paneuropean programs. A satellite channel. We all knew the European top 20, the Party Zone, the 120 min, and each weekend we had a special from one European country. We use to tape videoclips from those "other" countries, and surprisingly, it wasn't that different.
Around 1997, they split MTV Europe and that was gone. Now the British would have their own channel, so the Germans and the Italians. Later, during the 00s, almost all countries have their own MTV Channel.
But I bet, that you there in Britain know less current Italian, German, Greeks, etc songs those days, than you did back in the 90s, when we all had one channel. And your music industry now suffers more than all the others inside the European Union. You now how all that started? With a simply irrelevant thing. But it wasn't so irrelevant after all...

Strangely, the reason why the UK got it's own MTV channel was because veiwers complained about the European music that was being forced on them. MTV started to suffer as other music channels came along that concentrated on UK and US based music. Having travelled a lot throughout Europe, I can understand why audiences dropped. You only have to watch the Eurovision song contest to see that!

All people need to learn the same alphabet to write in English.
We try hard to learn it. So, we don't need terminology conflicts inside the English language. The less, the better.

Standardised terminology is just that, standardised, usually by an ETSI standard. Where it falls down is in the examples you gave. Free to Air, Over the Air, On the Air, all mean the same thing in different countries but they are not standard terms, just abbrieviations, usually dreamt up by marketing departments to baffle the consumer into thinking they know more than they actually do.

Richard_G wrote:
The current competition to Freesat is Sky+HD (which is plummetting in price as it is losing a huge market share to Freesat, now down to £25 in Currys)
You can't buy a Freesat HD receiver for £25 from Currys or anywhere else. The cheapest they have is £117. A Freesat HD box with PVR is £300 if you can find one. They are currently sold out almost everywhere. Freesat's SD receivers suck and at present there is no recordable version.

I probably worded that wrongly, I meant that Sky+HD is down to £25. They have got to encourage people to buy it somehow now the takeup of Freesat is climbing rapidly. There are still a lot of people with a distrust of Sky, so will grab at any alternative. Sky's SD customer base is falling rapidly, many customers were lured into contracts with the promise of movie channels, sport channels, etc, only to find that they very rarely watch them. Now they want to save money so are ditching Sky and getting a Freesat box instead. They already have a dish and get HD for a single one-off payment. OK, there is no SD PVR and not likely to be one. The cheap HD boxes are about as reliable as a chocolate fireguard but the Humax Foxsat HD works superbly. The cost of the PVR version will come down and that will cause the price of the non-recordable one to drop as well. It's all good news really.

[[_chef_]]

My dad has FreesatHD running of his standard SKY dish..
#
he lives in Scotland near Isle Of Skye (far west) and doesnt get ITV-HD , BBC-HD is on though

A) Does FreesatHD require a special HD LnB to work properley (get HD Channles)..?
B) Is it because he lives in scotland he doesnt get ITV-HD?

thanks

No!

ITV HD is only receiveable by some boxes because they use 1440x720 res which is NOT an DVB-S standard!!!

ANY universal ku-band LNB can receive all that channels.

ITV HD can be received in whole europe with receivers from Vantage, Dreambox, Clarke-Tech, ip box etc...