Upgrading video card. Any recommendations?

[seven_deuce offsuit]

For a while now I've been looking at an ATI Sapphire Radeon 4850 with intentions of buying it some time soon, but I need some input before I make any decisions. I know many would say that video cards don't really speed up the process of editing as much as a new processor, but I hear there are video cards that decrease the workload of the cpu by using more of the gpu on playback especially on HD content, which is my main reason for wanting to get a new graphics card. I want to start getting into 1080i/1080p video to edit and play smoothly on my computer and my old Nvidia 6200 is not doing me any good. A card like that makes it nearly impossible to edit 1080p footage when previewing on Vegas. I hope with a decent enough video card I can play my footage smoothly without the hassle of rendering a RAM preview every time I want to see my progress. Although my choice of a new video card may be more than what I need, I'm willing to spend as much as a $160 and I hear that the Radeon 4850 is the best in its price range. I've seen tests where it actually speeds up the encoding time when encoding to H.264, which is a plus since I do a lot of encoding too. I'd like to also playback Blu-ray movies on my computer and I think this card would do the job. I've already upgraded my RAM to 4 GBs (which did not help when playing back HD content) and I'm using a Pentium D 830 3.0 Ghz processor that came with my computer, so I feel it's about time I upgrade my video card. I think that's a must, but what other video cards would you guys recommend?

[tenders]

looks good to me. i just bought a 4670 yesterday. i was looking at the 4850 also but decided against it as i would have also had to upgrade my power supply. really have to watch the power requirements of cards these days.

good luck

[jagabo]

my old Nvidia 6200 is not doing me any good. A card like that makes it nearly impossible to edit 1080p footage when previewing on Vegas. I hope with a decent enough video card I can play my footage smoothly without the hassle of rendering a RAM preview every time I want to see my progress.

I doubt Vegas uses DXVA (Direct X Video Acceleration, the Windows API for DirectX hardware video decoding) so a better card isn't likely to help Vegas at all. In order for DXVA to work you have to have the hardware to support it (your new card would be chosen for this), a driver that supports it (the new drivers for the card would support this), and the application software must support it.

Although my choice of a new video card may be more than what I need, I'm willing to spend as much as a $160 and I hear that the Radeon 4850 is the best in its price range.

That is a good midrange card. I have one in my gaming computer.

I've seen tests where it actually speeds up the encoding time when encoding to H.264, which is a plus since I do a lot of encoding too.

Again, this will only work if your software supports it. The few applications that support this now are pretty poor: Badaboom, ATI's useless Avivo Video Encoder. Recent releases of Badaboom have improved a lot though. I still haven't seen any tests where the quality of the Badaboom encoded files was seriously examined (compared to a decent software h.264 encoder).

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3475
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,2845,2337057,00.asp

I'd like to also playback Blu-ray movies on my computer and I think this card would do the job.

When using a player that supports DXVA the 4850 will have no problems decoding 720p60 or 1080i30 on your Pentium D based system (you'll see single digit CPU usage). Not many media players support DXVA.

[DB83]

Tests can be very deceiving as they often use components much better than those you already have or even intend to buy.

I have just completed a new build. Like yourself I do some encoding but not in H264 at present.

I do not know about directing the encoding to the GPU but a good graphics card will certain help with decoding. My current system and certain not the fastest available :-

Pentium E8400. The same mhz as your current cpu but a whole load quicker.
2 gig 800 mhz ram (a matched pair of 1 gig pieces)
Shapphire HD4670 which decodes blu-ray very well

Others may disagree but for me the bottom line in encoding is the cpu/ram combination. I am now encoding a clip in 20% of the time that my previous Athlon 1800+ and 1.5 meg of mixed ram did.

[seven_deuce offsuit]

I doubt Vegas uses DXVA (Direct X Video Acceleration, the Windows API for DirectX hardware video decoding) so a better card isn't likely to help Vegas at all. In order for DXVA to work you have to have the hardware to support it (your new card would be chosen for this), a driver that supports it (the new drivers for the card would support this), and the application software must support it.

I was looking up the specs on the card and found out it supports both DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 2.1. After a little more research I found that Premiere does take advantage of OpenGL as well as After Effects, which I also use. The problem with this is that I've been an avid Vegas editor for a while now and don't like the fact of switching NLEs. But if Premiere would benefit more with the 4850 than Vegas, then I'd be willing to take that step.

[jagabo]

I was looking up the specs on the card and found out it supports both DirectX 10.1 and OpenGL 2.1. After a little more research I found that Premiere does take advantage of OpenGL as well as After Effects, which I also use.

DX 10.1 won't help unless the app specifically supports DXVA. Does OGL support GPU h.264 decoding? And, even if it does, do the apps use it?

[seven_deuce offsuit]

Don't know if they can specifically support H.264 decoding (I think with certain graphics cards it can actually speed up H.264 encoding, in conjunction with the right applications of course), but I don't use H.264 to edit. As long as these applications take advantage of the card it's ok.

I use dummy AVIs when I edit HD footage anyway and still have a hard time with my system. I read that the new Adobe CS4 family benefits a lot from a video card's gpu and until Vegas makes that change, I'm going to shift over to Premiere.

[jagabo]

A faster GPU will help with previewing transition effects in CS4.

[Soopafresh]

OpenGL is supported by most video cards, but few cards are optimized for it. The Nvidia Quadro line of cards are designed specifically for OpenGL aware apps. Too bad they're so expensive.

Premiere Pro CS4 has been optimized for CUDA, which means almost all late model Nvidia 8500 and upward series cards will work, especially for video decoding.

Cuda supported GPUs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CUDA

If you have the $750, the Nvidia Quadro FX 3700 will give you very fast OpenGL and CUDA performance.

If you want to see the greatest performance leap using CUDA aware apps, the Nvidia Tesla is the fastest graphics accelerator device. It doesn't even have video outputs on it, it just does graphics acceleration. Expensive, though. $1700

[INFRATOM]

Make sure your motherboard supports PCIe2.0 thats what these cards are made for otherwise if the slow down as 1X it may not perform well. One other thing they are so big it may not fit on an old motherboard. I just made a new computer and ASUS 4850 is so big with the huge fan it has covered one PCI, PCIe and one sata terminal. It is as wide as a normal ATX motherboard so look at your motherboard it needs clearance all the way back to the edge of motherboard and fan blocks like 2 slots looking down towards the bottom of the case. You also need at least 450W of PSU plus one 6pin power. I was thinking about 4670 or 4830 but thought 4670 may not drive a big display then I saw Newegg had special on ASUS 4850 I bought it for $120 almost the same price as 4830. That 4670 doesn't need too much power one could run it with 300W box and has HDMI so don't need adapter to stick out.

[jagabo]

Note that CUDA is only available on NVIDIA cards.

[seven_deuce offsuit]

A Quadro CX would be really nice but I don't want to spend that much on a video card. I could get a good Core i7 system for $1800.

I upgraded my PSU a couple months ago to a 550W one that comes with a 6 pin power connector. Unfortunately, my motherboard is only PCIe 1x, but I've read reviews that with a card as a good as a 4850 the difference can be subtle. Gamers may be able to tell the difference but I don't play PC games.

As far as the Quadro CX goes, even it was specifically made for the Adobe CS4 Suite, the ATI HD 4000 series was also confirmed to accelerate both Photoshop CS4 and Premiere CS4. There are others too, and After Effects CS4 is one of them. Here's the link: http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=120734

And here are more detailed specs on the card: http://ati.amd.com/products/Radeonhd4800/specs.html

Along those lines it shows that the 4800 series has direct support for Blu-ray and HD-DVD (like HD-DVD matters now), and can specifically decode H.264/AVC, VC-1, and MPEG-2 formats.

[INFRATOM]

Quattro is a GL card ATI has them too and they are very expensive because they are geared towards professionals that use 3D like 3d Max or AutoCAD. They are the same as the gamers but respond quicker to GL so they could charge those kind of prices (actually the gamer ones are capped or crippled through their drivers). For playing video even 4670 should be enough but if someone wants to drive multiple displays they have to go to 4850 or 4870, they could go 2X, 3X too meaning put 2 or 3 GPU on the motherboard. I think the best choice is the good mainstream product on sale because so many people buy it, they release better and more updates for the drivers.

[greymalkin]

One feature I'd like to know about is the hardware DVD upconversion that is a new feature of the 4800+ cards. Everyone reviews them for their gaming capabilities but I have yet to see a review on how well the hardware dvd upconversion works or just the PQ in general of HD/SD content on higher res displays.

**Edited: meant to say 4800 cards instead of 4600.

[seven_deuce offsuit]

Quattro is a GL card ATI has them too and they are very expensive because they are geared towards professionals that use 3D like 3d Max or AutoCAD. They are the same as the gamers but respond quicker to GL so they could charge those kind of prices (actually the gamer ones are capped or crippled through their drivers). For playing video even 4670 should be enough but if someone wants to drive multiple displays they have to go to 4850 or 4870, they could go 2X, 3X too meaning put 2 or 3 GPU on the motherboard. I think the best choice is the good mainstream product on sale because so many people buy it, they release better and more updates for the drivers.

If the 4670 is good enough and can still accelerate Premiere, then I should probably save some money and go with that. What I'm really concerned about is size. As much as I like the 4850, the fan that Sapphire makes (which was the one I wanted) is way too big and probably won't fit on my motherboard. The Sapphire 4670 doesn't look like a two-slotter so maybe I'll just go with that.

[tenders]

its only 1 slot i just bought and installed one this past week. no need for a 6pin power connector on your motherboard either.